Caerphilly: Woman, 83, dies after being injured in dog attack

[skinnydipper]

22 December 2022, post by Vet Sean McCormack on docking

https://www.facebook.com/thatvetsea...4YSV4kUyjFWwni34y8UXWkYEartrVcL1JeeAnbRxLDY7l

 

[Clodagh]

Recent post by Vet Sean McCormack on docking

https://www.facebook.com/thatvetsea...4YSV4kUyjFWwni34y8UXWkYEartrVcL1JeeAnbRxLDY7l

I’m not sure that this is relevant to bull breeds, I don’t see many out shooting, but as the owner of a dog who had to have her tail amputated after a year of pain and meds and having to change vet practices to get anything done I’m not sure.
Scout now constantly bleeds from the end of his tail and mine are Labradors, so really less likely than spaniels to suffer injury. I agree most pet dogs don’t need them doing, but unless you advocate having them docked at maybe 6 months old when you know if they will work it’s hard to know what’s best.
What do you think, SD?

 

[skinnydipper]

My sister in law took on a cropped ear rescue dobie x rott type in France, sweetest natured dog. Of course when she returned to England, he came too.

Thank goodness there are kind hearted people like your sister in law.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Thank goodness there are kind hearted people like your sister in law.

She's lovely, used to come and work alongside me when I had the big dogs on rehab (must have been bonkers as was turning round ott tbs too) and had around 3 or 4 at a time GSDs or Rotts, at least 1 of which was for retraining. She still laughs at/with me for my having a 7kg dog currently lol....
The cropped ear chap is now getting on in years, but he's really helped the nut of Briard X settle to training so much better.

 

[some show]

The 'flop not crop' campaign, which stated that the RSPCA had noted a 621% rise in reports of UK ear-cropped dogs from 2015 to 2020, had a petition which was signed by over 100,000 people and so the issue was debated in parliament (June 2021), but the outcome was typically vague: 'The Government welcomes further evidence on this abhorrent practice from the RSPCA. We will also explore options to tackle the import of mutilated dogs, consistent with World Trade Organisation rules.'

 

[druid]

22 December 2022, post by Vet Sean McCormack on docking

https://www.facebook.com/thatvetsea...4YSV4kUyjFWwni34y8UXWkYEartrVcL1JeeAnbRxLDY7l

I'm a vet who works and owns a routinely docked breed. I see many, many injuries in gundog breeds who are undocked or docked too long. They're frustrating, painful and unneccesary injuries which can be difficult to resolve.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This is the kind of shit that I hate and gives other responsible Cane Corso owners a bad rep. I'm very strict on our training and I'd be absolutely mortified if mine messed with or didn't listen around other animals. FFS.

this is ****** he is 18months old lives in ***** uk loves the beach mountains lakes and streams….
also likes to chase sheep try and eat cows not a fan or horses either listens like a 10 out of 10 untill any of the above animals are involved then he is deaf. still golden boy in dads eyes.
also on instagram with his bulldog brother *******.

What the actual...

And the dogs ears are cropped, FWIW. The dog is allegedly kept on a lead now.

There's so many head shaking things on FB. So many people shouldn't have these dogs. So many are ignorant. I also see a lot of violent training being promoted. There are people condoning all sorts of "training" methods. I'd be totally fine if there were a way to regulate who could own this breed, and many other breeds, and dogs in general to some extent! It's just hard to enforce and fund, I think.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I think that the Cane Corso has an interesting history, and is a relatively older breed, and they can make outstanding companions and working dogs. If you train, have the right lifestyle, and the right type of home (I prefer not to keep dogs in a small flat with no private garden for example). I'd hate to see the breed be banned and vanish, but these f*cking idiots...

Promoting and laughing at dangerous and aggressive behavior is absolutely moronic, at the least.

 

[GSD Woman]

Friend used to have GSDs until she got 1 that was highly reactive and apparently untrainable. After he wsa PTS she found out that at least 2 others from the same litter (5 pups) were the same.

I had a one like that. the whole litter was screwy. On paper the litter should have been fantastic. It wasn't.

There is a big pool of GSD genetics to choose from, which doesn’t exist with bullies I don’t think. So a small breeding pool, meaning gene replication on an adverse level is more likely. If you want size and weight you’ll breed for that; temperament is a minor concern and poorly tempered massive bullies will routinely be selected as breeding animals for that reason. With the money involved, breeders are going to breed and breed again, as much as possible. And the genetics they are breeding from are historically for aggression, power and killing. Not a good combo. Spaniel rage is terrifying in spaniels. Bully aggression is another level entirely.

Bullies, here at least, are a fairly new breed. They are so disgustingly unsound, physically, that I don't wonder if pain is part of the problem.

If a particular horse breed/type starts pitching up in the news on a semi-regular basis having attacked someone to death, then presumably we'll have a rethink. There have certainly been cases of horses which have been discussed where they cannot be managed safely and so PTS needs to be seriously considered before someone does get killed.

But horses are prey animals and it is much less likely that they would be bred for intentional aggression. Racing TB colts are often obnoxious as heck and be biters but if they win they're bred from. totally different thing though.

Imo, it should not be legal to import a dog with cropped ears into the UK. That would stop anyone saying that their dog had had its ears cropped abroad when in reality it had been done illegally here. Any dogs with cropped ears should be confiscated and pts to stop the practice.

That's horridly harsh.
Christmas Eve I had dinner at my sister's house and two of her friends were talking about a pit bill they thought about adopting. Her ears had been cut to the point where there was no ear flap at all. Reminded me of the dog in "Beautiful Joe."

And it should stop from today, and anyone out with a cropped ear dog should have to provide a vet cert to show the dog was imported prior to the date of legislation. Imo.

Or at least imported cropped. It's very hard here to find a Dobe breeder who doesn't crop and dock. Apparently they don't care about showing in Europe. I believe the breed standard here requires Dobes to be cropped and docked to show in conformation. At least imports in the working dog sports are natural.

 

[twiggy2]

I believe the breed standard here requires Dobes to be cropped and docked to show in conformation. At least imports in the working dog sports are natural.

Thats a whole different t issue the breed standard should be re written they are not bron dockes or cropped so why have it as breed standard?

 

[GSD Woman]

Thats a whole different t issue the breed standard should be re written they are not bron dockes or cropped so why have it as breed standard?

I suppose it is stuffed shirt tradition. Makes me want to bang my head.

 

[Sandstone1]

I'm a vet who works and owns a routinely docked breed. I see many, many injuries in gundog breeds who are undocked or docked too long. They're frustrating, painful and unneccesary injuries which can be difficult to resolve.

Docking working dogs is not the same as docking and cropping ears of a pet dog. Some XL bullys will never see the countryside let alone work.

 

[druid]

Docking working dogs is not the same as docking and cropping ears of a pet dog. Some XL bullys will never see the countryside let alone work.

The article my response was to specifically talks about gundogs hence my reply.

 

[skinnydipper]

Who is responsible for this?

"Many breeders are still docking litters of pups knowing they’re not going to working homes, therefore committing a crime and an illegal mutilation for cosmetic reasons."

From Sean McCormack's post

 

[skinnydipper]

https://www.bva.co.uk/media/1168/tail-docking-rebranded-may-2019.pdf

 

[CorvusCorax]

Bit harsh! I met a beautiful gsd with very badly done cropped ears, she had been sent out of Ukraine when the war began. She was adorable, god knows what her fate would have been without being imported.

Probably cut shorter rather than cropped? You don't really crop a dog with pricked ears already. If they're soft they usually get posted but that's more for showing.
It's probably more that the dog was likely to be performing a livestock guardian/guard dog role and it meant less for a predator to grab hold of. Never heard of it before in a GSD but I saw a lot of it in dogs on farms in rural Spain and also wearing pinch collars inside out (so that if another dog grabbed it in the neck, it would hurt).

 

[Clodagh]

Who is responsible for this?

"Many breeders are still docking litters of pups knowing they’re not going to working homes, therefore committing a crime and an illegal mutilation for cosmetic reasons."

From Sean McCormack's post

The breeder?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Probably cut shorter rather than cropped? You don't really crop a dog with pricked ears already. If they're soft they usually get posted but that's more for showing.
It's probably more that the dog was likely to be performing a livestock guardian/guard dog role and it meant less for a predator to grab hold of. Never heard of it before in a GSD but I saw a lot of it in dogs on farms in rural Spain and also wearing pinch collars inside out (so that if another dog grabbed it in the neck, it would hurt).

Cropped up the length so made narrower. Literally looked like it had been done with not very sharp scissors. We were in a queue at Pets at Home, I had a nice chat with the Ukrainian owner. Lovely long haired soppy girl.

 

[druid]

Who is responsible for this?

"Many breeders are still docking litters of pups knowing they’re not going to working homes, therefore committing a crime and an illegal mutilation for cosmetic reasons."

From Sean McCormack's post

The breeder. The vet has only to satisfy themselves that the pups are LIKELY to work. That can be done many ways; I only dock for current clients so I already have a VCPR, I require a shotgun license on file, evidence of trial/test awards or a letter from a gamekeeper stating the owner works this specific bitch. I also use local anaesthetic and pain relief. Pups have no reaction to docking this way vs the old fashioned way.

 

[skinnydipper]

The breeder.

and the people who buy the pups.

 

[Sandstone1]

The article my response was to specifically talks about gundogs hence my reply.

The thread is about a lady being killed by a XL bully type though not a working dog. Dogs docked for working is one thing. Being cropped or docked for fashion or just to look intimidating is something else altogether.

 

[druid]

The thread is about a lady being killed by a XL bully type though not a working dog. Dogs docked for working is one thing. Being cropped or docked for fashion or just to look intimidating is something else altogether.

IYou seem to be ignoring the fact that I am specifically responding to an article posted in this thread about XL bully dogs. Threads develop and take side roads and tangents, you don't get to dictate who responds to what in whatever manner.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I am somewhat curious as to what is considered to be an XL Bully dog by some. I think the term is thrown around a bit or used in a rather broad manner by some. I think even the original article is odd re how they refer to the dog that attacked.

 

[Clodagh]

I thought bringing on an FB article about docking working dogs in the UK was deeply random tbh, but I bit.

 

[druid]

I am somewhat curious as to what is considered to be an XL Bully dog by some. I think the term is thrown around a bit or used in a rather broad manner by some. I think even the original article is odd re how they refer to the dog that attacked.

I'm suppose they're a type rather than a breed? Much like the awful pocket/micro bullies

 

[stangs]

I am somewhat curious as to what is considered to be an XL Bully dog by some. I think the term is thrown around a bit or used in a rather broad manner by some. I think even the original article is odd re how they refer to the dog that attacked.

I reckon people use "XL bully" rather than "American bully" because its XL bullies in particular that have the bad reputation, rather than the breed as a whole.

ETA: meant American bully not American bulldog

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I thought bringing on an FB article about docking working dogs in the UK was deeply random tbh, but I bit.

Not sure I understand why that’s been put on a thread about an xl bully killing somebody. Is it related to the ear cropping?

 

[Clodagh]

Not sure I understand why that’s been put on a thread about an xl bully killing somebody. Is it related to the ear cropping?

Don’t know! I can’t see a connection.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ok, I'm just going to say something because I observe this on many HHO threads and it's got me wondering if it's a cultural thing...

Sometimes topics meander, evolve, and veer around, and sometimes people are so flabbergasted or aghast at this. It's discussion, it happens. It just goes in various directions. There's always posts discussing the discussion as a result ? tangents happen. It's conversation. Some see the connection some don't. It's just interesting how rigid it can get on here. Again, idk if it's a cultural thing or what, just an observation of mine. It reminds me of school; stay on task!

It began with a dog attack, which was executed by some sort of XL Bully Cane Corso breed according to the article. We segued into ear cropping which is related to these types of dogs, and then we went into tail docking because that's another form of mutilation/altering a dog's appearance and/or function, which then went into why some might have their tails docked (ie working breeds) and when it might make "sense" and even how/when a vet would agree to do it.

There are connections there. It's not so "deeply random" to me, but fair enough if it is to you.

Then again, the conversations I have with many of my friends and OH jump around quite a bit and we just go with it like a bunch of conversational barbarians.

Here I am, going off on a tangent ?

 

[skinnydipper]

Post 82 someone mentioned a TV programme about ear cropping.

Although I hadn't seen it, Sean McCormack was on The One Show about a week ago speaking about ear cropping. Following that he was asked his opinion about docking - I posted the link to his FB post on docking.

Here is the link to The One Show programme in case anyone else missed it. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=707897794257836