Can a dog that killed a sheep be trusted around horses?

[Bellaboo18]

No they don't, but most won't have previous history of attacking sheep either, which is kinda my point. There may not be any known links, but I personally wouldn't trust any dog that had attacked sheep, or anything else for that matter.

Granted that's personal preference.

Genuine question, would you think a dog that attacked another dog wasn't safe around children? They're very different behaviours.

 

[teapot]

Genuine question, would you think a dog that attacked another dog wasn't safe around children? They're very different behaviours.

Yes, but that's because I've seen it happen. A dog one week, a kid badly bitten a few weeks after. Has probably clouded my judgement since as he was an absolute **** to be around.

Not that any of that matters, but I raised it because sometimes people need reminding of the bigger picture, regardless of how cute Fluffy can be at home.

 

[Goldenstar]

I dont think your horses are at risk .
I think you sister has a choice between total vigilance and PTS .
Total vigilance means never ever having a couple glasses of wine and popping the dog in the garden for a pee , never popping it out and staying in in the pouring rain .
Is she up for it really up for it .
Your Oh sounds like a complete pain, my commiseration’s .

 

[Clodagh]

I get that but it's also about public perception. As OP has said, they're trying to keep it quiet. You have to ask yourself why.

If you live in sheep country you’d be wanting to keep it quiet too, if you were planning on keeping the dog.
It’s the farmers life, income and passion.
I know you know that hence your replies but I doubt they want it keeping quiet because it’s about to start hunting the local play group.

 

[teapot]

If you live in sheep country you’d be wanting to keep it quiet too, if you were planning on keeping the dog.
It’s the farmers life, income and passion.
I know you know that hence your replies but I doubt they want it keeping quiet because it’s about to start hunting the local play group.

No I know, but we all know how local communities work these days, farming or otherwise, 'oh we can't walk down THAT footpath because of x'. It doesn't take much for things to spiral. Just think OP's family need to be very very careful here

Horrible situation to be in too.

 

[Fellewell]

I think in fairness to your OH you've already spent out thousands on dog-proofing your yard and this is probably the last straw. A large determined dog can do a lot of damage in a field full of panicking sheep, even with a muzzle on. In times like these I think we all need to know exactly where our dogs are at all times.

 

[Clodagh]

I think in fairness to your OH you've already spent out thousands on dog-proofing your yard and this is probably the last straw. A large determined dog can do a lot of damage in a field full of panicking sheep, even with a muzzle on. In times like these I think we all need to know exactly where our dogs are at all times.

Do people really actually not? (I know that the answer is yes). When working my dogs are sent out of sight and I’m on tenterhooks until they return, but at home every pee, poo, sniff and action is seen by me or a family member.

 

[Orangehorse]

I don't want to be the harbinger of doom but if the dog is being reported to police by the farmer, and your sister has quite clearly admitted to the farmer it was her dog, then surely this will all end with an order for the dog to be euthanised anyway? And frankly I now suspect it probably was this dog then I think PTS is the only solution that is possible if your sister intends to stay where she is.

This could happen, sadly. I think it depends upon the farmer. We had some sheep here to eat the grass, not ours. A dog being walked by quite a frail elderly man got away and chased the sheep, causing some damage to them. The owner of the sheep took the owner of the dog to court, who was fined and directed to have the dog PTS. Oddly, the dog owner created about the fine and compensation, but did not make a fuss about the dog being PTS.

We had a similar case a few years later where twp dogs were caught in the act and caused massive damage to a flock of sheep. The dog owner had insurance but it came no-where near what he had to pay out for the damage caused. I do not know if the dogs were PTS.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I agree.
My sister has made a huge error of judgement and I don't trust her.
My OH is reacting strongly and with no room for conversation, it's his way or the highway. He's also said he wants nothing to do with my sister again, just what I need before Christmas, not only am I trying to keep my relatives sane and rational about what needs to happen, at home I'm vilified for it. It's been 48 hours, it's Christmas, it's not surprising to me that nothing has been sorted yet.

I want to manage it with the fence and hope to god my sister realises she can not stay on a farm with the dog

Thank you, I haven't really got anybody to be honest, my husband thinks I'm being an idiot trying to help My sister so hasn't stopped being angry for the last 48 hours, my sister is in a mess knowing shes messed up so badly and parents are furious, I'm having to talk to the farmer and keep everything on me because family don't want this getting out, so I'm not able to talk about it

I know that relationships are complicated, I promise you I know this from personal circumstances at the moment. But I hope you know that none of this is your fault, and that you don’t deserve to be treated like this.

 

[teacups]

A dog of people we know has chased and killed a sheep - jumped over fencing to do it. They spent a lot of money on behaviourists, etc, dog always walked on a harness. Not muzzled. They compensated the farmer.

They visited someone with horses: whilst on the lead the dog leapt up without any other warning and bit one of the horses on the nose. The horse was behind a fence (looking over it to say hello).

The owners thought they were always careful but they didn’t think the dog would attack the horse. They thought only sheep would be at risk because the dog is great with the family cat, other dogs and people.

The horse was fine - one of the tooth punctures was very deep but it healed up well without getting infected, and it had all happened so quickly that he didn’t seem to associate the dog with the injury (always been fine with dogs).

 

[Jenko109]

I have not read all replies.

I would not worry about the horses personally.

 

[Winters100]

Your sister has made a big mistake, but your partner is not being reasonable in expecting you to cut ties with her, neither is he being reasonable in wanting to move the horses. I do think that if the dog is to be kept then a firm agreement needs to me made regarding the handling of the dog in future, definitely she will need to be committed to ensuring that this can never happen again. Training is a good step, but regardless of what training the dog has it must never be off the lead outside of her own secured property again.

I think now all you can do is to focus on what is in your control, including your relationship. It is always difficult when one party feels strongly about an issue, but if the horses are to be moved every time an incident occurs then you aill go through a lot of yards. It sounds to me as if he has been wanting to move for a while, and this is a good excuse. You have no way of knowing if this dog would move on to bothering the horses, so you need to make sure that the opportunity is never there, but your new fence and the dog on a leash should fix this.

Stand your ground regarding your family relationships, no one ever has the right to demand that you cut ties with friends or family, so stand firm, and remember that you can find another partner, but you will never replace a sister.

 

[MCP030405]

Your sister has made a big mistake, but your partner is not being reasonable in expecting you to cut ties with her, neither is he being reasonable in wanting to move the horses. I do think that if the dog is to be kept then a firm agreement needs to me made regarding the handling of the dog in future, definitely she will need to be committed to ensuring that this can never happen again. Training is a good step, but regardless of what training the dog has it must never be off the lead outside of her own secured property again.

I think now all you can do is to focus on what is in your control, including your relationship. It is always difficult when one party feels strongly about an issue, but if the horses are to be moved every time an incident occurs then you aill go through a lot of yards. It sounds to me as if he has been wanting to move for a while, and this is a good excuse. You have no way of knowing if this dog would move on to bothering the horses, so you need to make sure that the opportunity is never there, but your new fence and the dog on a leash should fix this.

Stand your ground regarding your family relationships, no one ever has the right to demand that you cut ties with friends or family, so stand firm, and remember that you can find another partner, but you will never replace a sister.

I'm also going to suggest that the dog is kept on a chain if she is in my fenced off area, just in case.
a 20m steel cable tied to a tie ring and to a harness on her should be the last step to making sure she's contained. I'm going to electrify my new fence also.

 

[Fellewell]

You have said that your parents are furious. It's their land, what do they want to happen? One minute she's going for training, the next she's tied to a cable. I sympathise that your sister is in this position. Dogs are being bred with drives that just aren't suitable for pet homes. But this wont be managed without a lot of time, patience and discipline and it's a lifetime's work. Forgive me but I think these things are lacking here. Contact a breed specific rescue and see if someone can give this dog a chance.

The only way she could be contained is in a purpose built kennel and she cant stay there all the time.

 

[Exasperated]

I'm in a bit of a pickle both with my horses and with my family relationships.

My Sisters dog escaped the other night and apparently killed 2 sheep on their farm.

The farm is owned by my parents, I keep my 3 horses there and my sister lives there in a seperate house with my BIL with their 2 dogs.

We found on 2 weeks ago that one of the dogs can escape her courtyard and will chase sheep - the dog has been under lock and key for 2 weeks since she did this.

I was already arranging for a fence to be put up that will keep them enclosed because I dislike dog poo being on the stable block and the dogs going up to the stables because my mare is bitey. They would bark at the horses when we're riding, and have caused a few spooks which luckily haven't caused a fall yet. So the fence is going up literally tomorrow (booked in for weeks), with a nice 4m gate so we can still move vehicles through if needed. I've paid thousands.

I say apparently killed because we have no "proof", but my sister stupidly didn't keep an eye on her and we found her outside the courtyard in the fields and 2 hours later found 2 dying sheep and about 5 mauled ones - it was an obvious dog attack. I spoke to the sheep owner and have been trying to help as much as I can. It was traumatic, I was holding these poor dying sheep, I've barely slept since this happened and for some reason i've taken the brunt of trying to sort this, whilst also being screamed at by my other half.

They want to move the horses ASAP, I disagree because A) we can't really afford livery for 3 bloody horses right now and b) I've paid for this fence which will mean they can not get into the stable block. I also spent £4k last month putting up manege lights, I don't want this all to be wasted. Its just us and at our last yards nothing was ever good enough for him anyway, I think he'll find fault anywhere we go.

My sister is sending her dogs for training, has offered to pay the farmer for all their financial losses and has to walk the culprit through the farm/fields on a lead. I feel like she's showing enough remorse, a police report has been made and as a family we're taking steps to make sure this is never going to happen again. Sister is even considering moving out if these measures don't work, or if she feels she can't be at the farm anymore.

The issue my other half has brought up is that the dogs (to access the fields) will need to walk across the stable block, but again, on a lead, and then walked in the fields (ON A LEAD) the other side of the farm to the horses (with a 65 metre long brick building between also). I don't see a risk here if my sister follows the rules, and she's so scared by it all that I can't see her breaking them, she's lost so much trust in her dog.

I hate that this has happened, i've been a mess for days, but my horses are so settled, my mare has never been such a nice horse as she is here, it's just the 3 of them. The farm is stunning and irreplaceable and I feel like although the dogs can't be trusted around the sheep/cattle ever again, they have never made a play for the horses, they sit in front of the stables wagging their tails but now nobody trusts them at all.

I'm shattered, i'm gutted and I'm apparently condoning "sheep murder" because I don't want to leave my family's farm and go low contact with my sister for being a bloody idiot. I don't agree with what she's done but it is done and now we move on and fix things.

I wanted to see what other horse and dog people think about it all.

Would you move from the farm in my situation?

I think we wait and see how the situation changes with the fence i've paid for and the changes Sister will make with her training and leashing of the dogs.

The only issues my other half had before this attack was the barking / running up and down the manege fence during riding, and the dog poo they'd leave (which the fence was being built to stop). Now he hates my sister for letting her dog out and me by extension for not wanting to cause a huge rift in my family and pulling the horses out with nowhere to go in 48 hours.

He's saying he's going to lock up the gates i've paid for so sister can't walk her dogs through the fields at all and me not seeing it as an issue is me being an enabler of "sheep murder". I don't want to kick my sister whilst she's down.

I don't see this as a reason to move, but as a reason to be wary and careful with the dogs, but we'd already planned seperating the stable block anyway.

Why hasn't this dog been destroyed?
It is proven untrustworthy around livestock, and highly likely to worry after your horses' heels at the very least - and yes, it WILL get lose again, because accidents happen even with the most diligent owners (which your sister isn't), and because a dog on a mission WILL get through your new fence - you can bet the ranch on exactly that.
New Year 2013: an escaped whippet chased my hunter round and round the field. We finally caught the dog, police were involved and issued a formal caution because I didn't insist on the mutt's destruction. Just two weeks later, did it again, my lovely horse fell in the snow, broke his leg and was destroyed instead.
We have had the udders and teats torn off our dairy cows by little lapdogs their owners believe are delightful 'family members', wouldn't hurt a fly - dogs are DOGS for God's sake, you owe them the respect of treating them as such, and also of recognising human fallibility.
That dog should be destroyed or removed from any location of possible contact with livestock. And your sister needs to understand the law in relation to causing distress / harm to wildlife, too.
Do you not know how dogs kill? very rarely 'cleanly': dogs bring down and rip and eat into the body until the prey dies from shock or blood loss - it is literally eaten alive.
Don't move potential victims, the perpetrator is the actual problem, which creature your sister has lost all faith in anyway. It's a wholly unsuitable pet for her or the situation.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Give the farmer your sister's contact details and wash your hands of the whole thing. And please don't feel that pain is an excuse for how your OH is acting towards you. It isn't, and he needs to cop on or bog off.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Give the farmer your sister's contact details and wash your hands of the whole thing. And please don't feel that pain is an excuse for how your OH is acting towards you. It isn't, and he needs to cop on or bog off.

Indeed people can be irritable/have a shorter fuse than normal when they are in pain but that isnt what OP described.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Give the farmer your sister's contact details and wash your hands of the whole thing. And please don't feel that pain is an excuse for how your OH is acting towards you. It isn't, and he needs to cop on or bog off.

I agree, I would also step back from the farmer and let everything be handled by your sister or your parents. As tempting as it might be to step in for your parent’s sake, it may only serve to complicate things by embroiling yourself in the mess.

 

[Velcrobum]

I agree, I would also step back from the farmer and let everything be handled by your sister or your parents. As tempting as it might be to step in for your parent’s sake, it may only serve to complicate things by embroiling yourself in the mess.

^^^^^^
This

Also it might just make your OH calm down a bit. Having said that IMHO he is being very unreasonable.

 

[southerncomfort]

Give the farmer your sister's contact details and wash your hands of the whole thing. And please don't feel that pain is an excuse for how your OH is acting towards you. It isn't, and he needs to cop on or bog off.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[planete]

I'm also going to suggest that the dog is kept on a chain if she is in my fenced off area, just in case.
a 20m steel cable tied to a tie ring and to a harness on her should be the last step to making sure she's contained. I'm going to electrify my new fence also.

Dogs can back out of harnesses and be loose in a split second unless the harness has a second strap that goes behind the ribcage. Chaining dogs up can also potentially exacerbate aggressivity so not a long term solution.

 

[cornbrodolly]

What sort of a life is this dog condemned to have? Shut up or on a lead forever, never to be trusted. Why would any owner want that?
The decision to PTS would have already been taken by me , the minute I found out it had attacked sheep. Its a Rotty , not designed for a pet life ; your family wont have a moment without worry until that dog has gone. Framer s have every right to shoot if they see a dog mauling their sheep , rightly so.

 

[JBM]

What sort of a life is this dog condemned to have? Shut up or on a lead forever, never to be trusted. Why would any owner want that?
The decision to PTS would have already been taken by me , the minute I found out it had attacked sheep. Its a Rotty , not designed for a pet life ; your family wont have a moment without worry until that dog has gone. Framer s have every right to shoot if they see a dog mauling their sheep , rightly so.

My husky is only allowed off lead in the 50m dog run as he will chase anything going. He is on lead to go to the toilet
He seems happy

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My husky is only allowed off lead in the 50m dog run as he will chase anything going. He is on lead to go to the toilet
He seems happy

Tbf Rottweilers make superb family pets in the right, experienced family home. But they need consistent handling and responsible owners which, sadly OP sister doesn't seem able to provide.

Eta, sorry I meant to quote cornbrodolly

 

[TheresaW]

Our huskies are always on lead too unless in secure off lead areas. They are all happy and well adjusted.

 

[Winters100]

dogs are DOGS for God's sake, you owe them the respect of treating them as such

100% right. I get so sick of people who tell me that their dogs are not dangerous as they charge around totally out of control. Yesterday I was walking my 2, they were on leashes, and we met another dog who was loose, running around us and barking at them. Luckily mine are trained not to react in such situations, to stay behind me and let me handle it, but the idiotic owner saw nothing wrong. I was trying to get his dog to leave, while he was 100 metres away faffing about with his car. I yelled at him to come and get his dog, he called it, which the dog totally ignored, and when the owner finally came closer I asked him to either use a leash or have the dog under control. His answer was that 'the dog doesn't do anything'. Well I count running around other people barking, and ignoring the command to come to the owner as 'something'.

I now carry 'hound spray', which is legal where I am, it is a milder form of pepper spray. I have used it only once, in a situation when 3 large dogs had surrounded us and were growling and not letting us move away, but it is so unfair that the dogs suffer when the fault lies with the stupid owners. I did not spray the dog yesterday, but he was lucky that it was me and not my neighbor, who we met walking her dog when we were on the way home. I advised her to go another way to avoid this dog, and she told me that she now just sprays any dog in such situations.

Really I get your frustration with this. Dogs need to be treated as dogs, not as harmless toddlers. I have no idea whether mine would chase livestock for the simple reason that they have never had the opportunity, because they are on leashes. Honestly I just see it as totally irresponsible to not have your dog leashed in public, mine are fairly well trained, but I would never assume that they have such perfect recall that they would come to me in every situation.