Can anyone educate me on bits!

[Ample Prosecco]

I just don't get them. How do they work. How can they do different things. I just about understand:

- Nutcracker action pushes up into palate
- Shanks add leverage - the lower the rein the harsher the bit
- Straight bar lacks subtlety for steering as you can't do different things with different reins
- Roundings - ditto
- Some bits involve poll pressure (though I don;t know how!)
- Some involve tongue pressure and some push into palate. Which is better and why? And how can you tell?
- Mouth pieces can be ported for more space for a fat tongue/low palate
- Mouthpieces can be curved to spread the pressure over a larger surface
-Mouthpieces can have things like lozenges to avoid the nutcracker action and give the horse simething to play with
- Sweetiron is a softer feel and tastes nice

Beyond that I know nothing. What the 'action' of a bit is (apart from leverage from shanks = more pressure) and how you can tell. How some can be 'elevators', some can prevent leaning, some can encourage softness, some can sit a horse on their hocks, some can enhance steering, some can do the washing up after hosing off your horse, etc etc etc.

No ides what curb chains do. No idea why some are loose ringed, some D-ringed, some are wierd shapes with multiple places for reins, some have great long bars on them (not to attache the rein to). Why some are 'tranz angled' or 'turtle top' and what those do.

I am wanting to change Lottie's jumping bit but I don't even know where to start. I rang the bit bank and I hate the look of the bits they suggested. (Carl K Kimblehook and FlexZ Elevator/Jumper - both to be used with a curb chain/strap) But don't know why I don't like the look of them! I think they just look weird and I don't know why there were suggested anyway. Other than they 'discourage leaning, get the horse off the forehand, enhance steering and control'. Great - but how?

I don't want to use 2 reins.

I want brakes but am wanting to slowly have less in her mouth, not more, as she becomes more responisve. But she can still lean and tank and I need to have a way of saying 'Oi! No!' when that happens.

She is currenrly in a rubber pelham with roundings which my RI lent me as she said horses went well in it. I have control but feel there is no subtley in the steering.

So is anyone able to explain the key features of bits, and also recommend anything?

I will be forever grateful!!




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[Ample Prosecco]

Also I have just looked online under 'how to choose a bit' and saw this. Firstly the explanations are double dutch. But also every single bit says it is 'ideal for' the exact same thing!

Brain exploding.

Jumping and Schooling

Connect Dalehead React...

www.informeddesigns.co.uk

 

[RachelFerd]

I have this book - it is a bit out of date, but good for the basics. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-B...te+Book+of+Bits+Bitting&qid=1677252647&sr=8-1

I find with bitting - there are lots of logical explanations... but then quite often what works for a certain horse will just be random and discovered by trial and error.

Do talk to your dentist about your horse's mouth shape. One of mine has an extraordinarily fat tongue - so where I had been trying to ride in a big rubber pelham was not working with the shape of his mouth. A little thin, lightweight myler comfort snaffle with low port worked much better and gave him room.

My 6yo has been much more opinionated about bits, and when he doesn't like one, will totally stop going forwards on the flat. He only likes single jointed bits (why? doesn't make any sense?) and prefers non-metal. Options for those are limited mainly to happy-mouths, which are a bit of a cheap and tacky bit, but he does seem happiest in them.

For jumping I did have him in a pelham for a little bit, because he was running through the snaffle. Have now downgraded to a little happymouth single jointed wilkie, which i consider to be a 'pony' bit really, but he's actually very rideable in it.

For jumping and XC I think too strong a bit can have much worse outcomes for horse confidence than too little can.

 

[NinjaPony]

First place I’d start is what does she do when she goes to tank off or ignores your hands? Head up, down, mouth open, jaw crossing?
Then, what is her mouth conformation like? Big tongue, small tongue, narrow or wide? What suits one won’t suit another and sometimes a slimmer mouthpiece is kinder for those with less room.

Does she respond well to nose pressure? You could think about a hybrid bit if so.

I hire bits before I buy so I can see if it will work first.

What does she do her flatwork in? If that works, you might be able to ‘escalate’ with the same mouthpiece.

For example, my connie went beautifully on the flat in a loose ring lozenge (the neue scheule one) with a slim mouthpiece. Out hacking, he had a tendency to get a bit silly, cross his jaw and take a bit of a hold sometimes. So I put him in the exact same mouthpiece, just a 2 ring gag instead on the snaffle ring, which exerts a bit of poll pressure to bring the head up, and a loose grackle to stop the jaw crossing. 9/10 I didn’t need either and could just hack on a nice loose rein.

 

[Goldenstar]

Its really difficult without seeing the horse but I have a repertoire of bits I use on horses that I can’t jump in a snaffle .
if the horse opens it mouth when it’s strong I use a grackle .
I always try the Dr Bristol . I will always try various Myler bits
If a horse leans I try a Waterford I hate the idea of the Waterford but there no doubt that for some horses it’s the magic bit those who hate tongue pressure are often very happy in the loose ring Waterford .
I try a Waterford loose ring ( mildest as they can move the mouthpiece ) then with cheeks.
If that’s not working I try the Tom Thumb mine have a lozenge I like the Tom Thumb if you team it with a grackle it so often the answer for XC.
I then try the tomthumb with the Waterford mouth piece and this with a grackle is what I would ride Sky XC if my body was up to it .
I often have a range of bits for jumping something for training something else for training in a group a bit for jumping a course etc etc .
I have masses of options and change a lot .
I tend to favour narrow mouthpieces .
It’s a balance between rider style and the horse I would rather rider XC in a stronger bit saying very little than have to writhe on in a snaffle I like to speak once then say very little down the rein that’s usually the way to get strong keen horse on side .
Its a huge subject and I don’t there’s any hard and fast rules horses vary so much in what works for them.
I hate the Pelham with roundings but my best horse went best in this set up .
One bit I hate is the Dutch gag I avoid at all costs .

 

[Squeak]

Could you have an independent bit fitter out AE? Then they could have a look at her mouth confirmation and give you a chance to ride in a couple of the bits. There are SO many bits these days it is very hard to know what would suit them as it does seem to be a large part of trial and error even when you've narrowed it down by logical factors.

 

[ihatework]

I’m not going to be helpful because over the years I have found that most horses don’t read the textbook and it’s often trial and error. Thankfully I have collected a nice big bit box.
It’s also about rider feel and what you like, which will be different to someone else.
Also strategic use of nosebands can help and allow lighter bitting. Obviously various bottom strap options but sometimes kineton or combination can be hugely effective

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I think its a tricky subject as it will be dependent on the horses mouth anatomy, how they use themselves and the rider.

I'd start with what are you trying to fix?

A rubber pelham is a thick bit with no ability to move either side independently. As Lottie is not a youngster, I'm figuring the sensitivity of independent rein action is what you're lacking (rather than the basic this rein means move over here, where a full cheek helps with baby horses). So I'd suggest a thinner mouth piece that is jointed.

Most people and horses don't like the nutcracker action of single joints, however, some horse do prefer them, they can as you say hit the top of the pallet and work mostly on the bars of the mouth.

Double jointed bits tend to be though of as softer on the horse as they wrap round the tongue and bars, but it depends on mouth shape as to how well each design will sit and work with the horse.

Most of my horses have ended up (mostly through trial and error) with ported, thin, double jointed mouth pieces, so Myler and Informed Design (the ID was after a bitting clinic with the owner, it was very useful and they don't just recommend their own but obviously do have bias, though I do like the design and concept of them). Ported and thinner mouth pieces gives the tongue more room, so the horse isn't as compromised.

After you sort the mouth piece, then you can think of what the cheek piece do. Loose ring gives less rigidity for the horse to lean on, D ring and hanging cheek hold the bit stiller (hanging cheek also removes pretty much all poll pressure), bubble bits/ dutch gags/ etc create poll pressure and can help horses who launch their ears up your nose. True gags apparently lift the head, but to be honest I've never used one.

Curb chains I always thought were to stop over rotation of bits with a cheek piece/shank causing poll pressure (the weymouth on a double bridle, same in the pelham).

Then once you've found your holy grail of a bit everyone likes you have to check if they're allowed under rules , though for jumping/ eventing I don't think that is as much of a battle as dressage!

 

[MereChristmas]

The previous posts have explained it well I think.
I knew my pony wasn’t quite right in his bit so I booked a bit fitter. She told me I wasn’t far wrong with the bit and explained various other things.
I knew a little bit but there was still more to learn.
So far the pony is happier.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

This is all very helpful. Thank you! My plan is to choose a bit using logic then buy it with 30 days trial from the bit bank. I don’t have a big selection to try.
Do step 1: mouth piece. She has a neue schule verbindend loose ring snaffle for schooling and seems fine in that.

So if I choose that mouthpiece then what…. ?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Also, re bit fitter - I have rung our local fitter at least 10 times over past 3 years. She replies to say she has no space but will get back to me soon. But after that seems determined to ignore me. As she never does then come back. No idea why as I know she’s out and about still to other yards!! I’m trying not to get a complex about it

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Have you tried jumping in the NS bit?

I believe you can get pelham versions from NS so maybe try that with roundings if the current pelham is mostly ok?

edit: I find all the marketing puffery (fave word from a previous colleague for marketing blurb), is just there to make the sale and has little to do with the actual effects of the bit. As asides from the basics (like leverage bits will have poll pressure to lower the head), it will depend on if it suits that horse and rider .

 

[Ample Prosecco]

To answer some questions:
- she throws her head up, not down
- she locks on and then can sometimes pulls like a train to the fence and on the landing side
- she sees the fence on the bend and cuts in, dropping a shoulder
- she sometimes opens her mouth
- she is happier on the flat with no nose band at all. For jumping she’s in a comfort bridle and grackle.
- I do jump school her in the ns snaffle with no nose-band. but I don’t have enough brakes for courses, or XC

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Also it goes without saying, that I am working on all these issues in schooling too. But meantime I need brakes and better steering!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I had Skylla in a universal for better breaks: https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...rome..69i57.2899j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Helped lower her head and give me more control (too much in some cases so we went back to the snaffle), but was useful if she had a run of being rude and thuggy I could swap back to it to reinstate some manners! You can get it with pretty much any mouth piece.

 

[NinjaPony]

Personally I found a rubber Pelham with roundings about as much use as a chocolate teapot for my old mare who used to just tank through it. If it’s head up rather than down, I’d consider something like a kimblewick with a slim ported mouth. Or you could go for a different action like a loose ring 2 ring gag with the same lozenge mouthpiece and see how you get on. Presumably she is in a martingale too.

 

[MereChristmas]

I had trouble finding a bit fitter. The one for my area stopped doing it. I had to book the person from the next area.
I booked for myself alone as I gave up trying to get a place at a clinic.
It was more expensive but I learnt that my pony has a long smile and not to fit with wrinkles on the lips. His previous bits were knocking on his teeth with the cheek action and wrinkles.
We ended with the same mouthpiece but different cheeks set at a different height in the mouth.

Where are you Ambers Echo?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I’m on the Derbyshire/Cheshire/Staffordshire border. I live in Derbyshire, work in Cheshire and Lottie is in Staffordshire!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Personally I found a rubber Pelham with roundings about as much use as a chocolate teapot for my old mare who used to just tank through it. If it’s head up rather than down, I’d consider something like a kimblewick with a slim ported mouth. Or you could go for a different action like a loose ring 2 ring gag with the same lozenge mouthpiece and see how you get on. Presumably she is in a martingale too.

What makes a bit a 'kimblewick' bit. Looks lie they are all hanging cheek? What does that do?

 

[Goldenstar]

I would try the doctor Bristol with the grackle as a start .

 

[MereChristmas]

My fitter is a bit south of you. Birmingham, Warwickshire, Worcestershire and ( just) into Shropshire.
I expect you’ve seen this. There are 2 listed who may come to you.

The Team | UK | The Association Of Professional Bit & Bridle Fitters

Find out more about our bit and bridle fitting team, as The Association Of Professional Bit & Bridle Fitters are offering our quality services across the UK.

www.apbbf.org

 

[MereChristmas]

What makes a bit a 'kimblewick' bit. Looks lie they are all hanging cheek? What does that do?

I was brought up to think that kimblewicks were for children’s ponies probably a bit cobby to help with brakes and control.
The slots give some leverage and there straight bar and ported ones too.
Sort of a pelham but more simple

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I would try the doctor Bristol with the grackle as a start .

What is the differene between that and the gag you say you hate? (Genuine question - they look the same to me).

 

[NinjaPony]

What makes a bit a 'kimblewick' bit. Looks lie they are all hanging cheek? What does that do?

Essentially it’s a slightly watered down Pelham but it’s designed to be used with one rein and it has a curb chain. In theory it lowers the head with some curb and leverage action. It used to be used a lot on strong ponies when jumping, I’ve known quite a few go well in one but they aren’t seen around as much. If you are trialling bits it might be worth getting a few different ones with different actions to see which she prefers.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Step 1: Verbindend mouthpiece as she likes that
Step 2: Something with more control, but not gags or long shanks and for 1 rein?

Maybe something like:

9010U Neue Schule Verbindend Universal 12mm thickness

Neue Schule Verbindend Universal 12mm thickness

www.horsebitbank.com

Out of interest, would anyone agree with the Bit Bank advisor on recommending the Carl K Kimblehook and the FlexZ Elevator?

 

[ihatework]

Most of this sounds like training, but I’m a realist rather than a purist.

The purists would probably faint but I wouldn’t discount trying a jointed Pelham.

Id also try a kineton with whatever bit you settle on.

I shy away from universals personally but plenty of horses go well in them, you can add a back strap.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Never heard of kineton nose bands. What do they do? I've looked them up on the bit bank. Would have no clue how to fit one!

 

[ihatework]

Never heard of kineton nose bands. What do they do?

Not a great deal until the horse yobs.
they have a mild mouth closing assistance but mostly transfer pressure to the nose. Google them.

Kineton Noseband - Traditional Range

Originating for animals who would be uncontrollable at high speeds, this noseband often cited as being more severe than the others listed above.

ejeffries.co.uk

 

[TPO]

It would be worth asking Joe at your next lesson.











If you're a member of his Good Horsemanship Channel he has videos and at least one article about bitting and mouth conformation.

At the first clinic of his that I spectated at he was really keen to talk about bitting and mouths during his lunch break.

 

[dixie]

I would suggest trying that one you indicated above. Same mouthpiece but in a universal.
You’ll definitely have more breaks but it might not help with her head coming up.

Does she throw her head up in a Pelham?
If not, you could try a jointed Pelham as well.