Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I was not sure about the back strap, but when it was on her and I played around with it in the stable, it looked like the bit would just rotate without the strap? I wondered if that would actually be annoying!
Can anyone educate me on bits!
- Thread starter Ample Prosecco
- Start date
I was not sure about the back strap, but when it was on her and I played around with it in the stable, it looked like the bit would just rotate without the strap? I wondered if that would actually be annoying!
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Here goes.. I can’t find the link at the moment, will post it when I do
Here are, coming when I’ve resized them, photos of relevant pages from Neue Schule bit information
They show poll pressure for each position and angle of the bit in the top right hand corner of the page about the bit.
Here are, coming when I’ve resized them, photos of relevant pages from Neue Schule bit information
They show poll pressure for each position and angle of the bit in the top right hand corner of the page about the bit.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Hopefully
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
This shows the way you have used it is +4
the way I use it is 0
edit .. sorry I think your way is +2
I’ll still search for the link
the way I use it is 0
edit .. sorry I think your way is +2
I’ll still search for the link
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MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
found it
nsbits.com
Your Guide to Transforming Your Riding in 2019 - Neue Schule
https://issuu.com/neueschule/docs/neue-schule_your-guide-to-transform
nsbits.com
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Pages… Poll pressure
and … bits for faster work
and … bits for faster work
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Hope these are useful. I’m finding it interesting
nsbits.com
What is the effect of employing a leather curb strap on the Universal or Jumper? - Neue Schule
The addition of the leather curb strap reinforces what the rider is asking for. It is often used to promote a better outline, enhance turning and help
nsbits.com
dixie
Well-Known Member
Take the back strap off asap, that can make a huge difference in my experience.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Photo of universal with curb.
I’m glad I looked it up as I’m pretty sure I would have put it in the wrong place.
I’m glad I looked it up as I’m pretty sure I would have put it in the wrong place.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Hope these are useful. I’m finding it interesting
What is the effect of employing a leather curb strap on the Universal or Jumper? - Neue Schule
The addition of the leather curb strap reinforces what the rider is asking for. It is often used to promote a better outline, enhance turning and help
Yes I am!
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
The back strap does indeed stop the bit over rotating, but I would try the bit first without the strap just schooling in the arena in a calm situation where you don’t need to apply much pressure (so mouth piece should not over rotate). If all goes well and horse isn’t offended by the poll pressure you can add the back strap and this should be introduced loosely and then tightened one hole at a time. The strap tightened increases the leverage and the reaction will be quicker (therefore sharper) on the horse’s mouth/poll.
RachelFerd
Well-Known Member
If you use on snaffle ring, it just becomes a hanging cheek snaffle in effect - no poll pressure.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
I'll get that Happy Tongue thing out to you once I find the back strap. I've had friends with me at the yard for the last couple days, which means I haven't had a chance to properly look.
Over the last year and a half or so, my horse has gone from disliking the direct pressure of any snaffle-type bit but going well in a leverage bit, then going amazingly well in a mechanical hackamore, then to acting really unhappy about poll pressure. At which point I rode him in the Tom Thumb with the reins on the big rings, so it was basically a Boucher cheek, then tried him in the super lightweight Fager snaffle I'd bought for Hermosa (don't ask what it cost). That little snaffle seems to be his favourite thing at the moment.
I first started him in a Myler combination. He had not gone well in a normal Myler or any other snaffle. His previous owner wasn't sure if the pro he'd spent two months training with had bitted him up (you'd think one would know this, but you also know of whom I speak). He did not fuss, champ, toss his head, or drag you in the opposite direction in the Myler combo and was actually responsive. But I felt that the brakes were too strong. It doesn't encourage the horse to come into the contact or move forward confidently, but it did help him become more familiar with the bit while combining it with the noseband action, which he understood because his first owner backed him in a Dually.
Somewhere in all that faff, I tried him in a Western bosal, but he lost his bosal privileges when he realised he could easily take over the steering in it. We ended up bush-whacking through some trees because he thought that way looked better, and I had to bail out to stop him. Yeah, no. I hear you about training. Training is great, but I am not convinced every horse can be perfectly trained to go in every type of bridle, bitted or bitless.
Anyway, the Myler combo isn't a bad shout, either. It's not as harsh as some of the other combination bits. There's a nubbin on the rings that stops the full leverage action from kicking in, though it looks like a mean motherf(cker with big shanks.
Over the last year and a half or so, my horse has gone from disliking the direct pressure of any snaffle-type bit but going well in a leverage bit, then going amazingly well in a mechanical hackamore, then to acting really unhappy about poll pressure. At which point I rode him in the Tom Thumb with the reins on the big rings, so it was basically a Boucher cheek, then tried him in the super lightweight Fager snaffle I'd bought for Hermosa (don't ask what it cost). That little snaffle seems to be his favourite thing at the moment.
I first started him in a Myler combination. He had not gone well in a normal Myler or any other snaffle. His previous owner wasn't sure if the pro he'd spent two months training with had bitted him up (you'd think one would know this, but you also know of whom I speak). He did not fuss, champ, toss his head, or drag you in the opposite direction in the Myler combo and was actually responsive. But I felt that the brakes were too strong. It doesn't encourage the horse to come into the contact or move forward confidently, but it did help him become more familiar with the bit while combining it with the noseband action, which he understood because his first owner backed him in a Dually.
Somewhere in all that faff, I tried him in a Western bosal, but he lost his bosal privileges when he realised he could easily take over the steering in it. We ended up bush-whacking through some trees because he thought that way looked better, and I had to bail out to stop him. Yeah, no. I hear you about training. Training is great, but I am not convinced every horse can be perfectly trained to go in every type of bridle, bitted or bitless.
Anyway, the Myler combo isn't a bad shout, either. It's not as harsh as some of the other combination bits. There's a nubbin on the rings that stops the full leverage action from kicking in, though it looks like a mean motherf(cker with big shanks.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
I found the full poll pressure guide. Posting for information / interest
nsbits.com
Neue Schule Poll Pressure Guide - Neue Schule
A key question posed by company founder and bitting guru, Heather Hyde, regarding poll pressure was recently resolved. Heather wanted to know how much
nsbits.com
dixie
Well-Known Member
My old super duper horse wouldn’t go in a Myler Combination. He schooled very lightly in the hand which was unusual for him but he really backed off when jumping - which was unusual for him !
But it’s all Trial and error with these bits and horses (and expensive )
But it’s all Trial and error with these bits and horses (and expensive )
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
If anyone is interested in what Joe Midgley said about this bit:
So the description sounds benign and it's called a comfy mouth.
Joe said the design of the lozenge is horrid. It twists if you use one rein and digs into the tongue. Other bits are shaped to be comfortable - this is shaped to hurt - via the angle and the way it twists and digs in. (He showed me the bit in action and he's right - it hurts!)
He hated the backstrap which presses on a branch of the trigeminal nerve - as do flashes, dropped nosebands and grackles. He claims Russell Guire of Centaur Biomechanics has published studies on these, demonstrating that horses end up with a numb lower jaw and numb tongues after being ridden in them. So he hates those too. Lottie used to rub her face on the hay net after work and I assumed it was because she had a sweaty, itchy head. But according to Joe (and Russell) horses actually do this becase they have lost feeling and/or their face is tingling. I had noticed Lottie has stopped doing that since we stopped using any noseband 5 weeks ago, but had not really given any thought about why - but that makes sense.
A rubber straight bar pelham is kinder, despite the leverage. But really, the aim is for her to respond to a snaffle, eventually. However exciting life gets!
I knew the bit was too severe. Lottie told me that. But I could not work out why - as it looks quite benign and is described as 'comfy'. But now it makes sense.
So the description sounds benign and it's called a comfy mouth.
Joe said the design of the lozenge is horrid. It twists if you use one rein and digs into the tongue. Other bits are shaped to be comfortable - this is shaped to hurt - via the angle and the way it twists and digs in. (He showed me the bit in action and he's right - it hurts!)
He hated the backstrap which presses on a branch of the trigeminal nerve - as do flashes, dropped nosebands and grackles. He claims Russell Guire of Centaur Biomechanics has published studies on these, demonstrating that horses end up with a numb lower jaw and numb tongues after being ridden in them. So he hates those too. Lottie used to rub her face on the hay net after work and I assumed it was because she had a sweaty, itchy head. But according to Joe (and Russell) horses actually do this becase they have lost feeling and/or their face is tingling. I had noticed Lottie has stopped doing that since we stopped using any noseband 5 weeks ago, but had not really given any thought about why - but that makes sense.
A rubber straight bar pelham is kinder, despite the leverage. But really, the aim is for her to respond to a snaffle, eventually. However exciting life gets!
I knew the bit was too severe. Lottie told me that. But I could not work out why - as it looks quite benign and is described as 'comfy'. But now it makes sense.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Which bits are shaped to be comfortable please?
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Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
He did not say - he just picked up my new bit and said 'mouthpiece on this one is horrible'. I am gutted, really. I thought I had a good one.
We ran out of time for a longer discussion after we agreed I'd stick with the pelham for now, and work on responsiveness in the snaffle. I know he has recommended happy tongues before to my sharer.
But I honestly don't know what I am talking about. I trust what he says, as he has not yet done or said anything about anything that I find dubious! (So far....) But I still want to understand much more and then make up my own mind.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Thanks.
I am using the Expert bits comfy universal on the recommendation of a bit and bridle fitter.
If the mouth piece is as nasty as Joe Midgely ( I’ve never heard of him, who is he? ) says I would love to know what to try next. The bit that I used before was very similar so I’ve not much idea as where to begin.
I am using the Expert bits comfy universal on the recommendation of a bit and bridle fitter.
If the mouth piece is as nasty as Joe Midgely ( I’ve never heard of him, who is he? ) says I would love to know what to try next. The bit that I used before was very similar so I’ve not much idea as where to begin.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I get how infuriating it is for someone to say 'this is good' and someone else to come along and say 'awful bit'. Joe is not a bit ot bridle fitter. He is a horse trainer. It is just one man's view. If someone has fitted a bit to your horse, and your horse goes well in it, then I'd take that over online advice. Lottie was super super sensitive to this bit. So I won't use it again. But I only asked his advice because of how reactive she was to it.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
ETA she is a very, very, VERY sensitive horse . Physically that is. Not emotionally.. She is a level headed horse but just sensorily sensitive.
dixie
Well-Known Member
I thought you were using the Neue Schule universal- what happened to that one?
Interesting to read what he thought of the Expert bit though. I’ve not seen them in real life and find it difficult to figure out how bits sit in the mouth anyway.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
I thought you were using the Neue Schule universal- what happened to that one?
Interesting to read what he thought of the Expert bit though. I’ve not seen them in real life and find it difficult to figure out how bits sit in the mouth anyway.
This is the cheaper copy of the NS bit - though I don't know if the angles and the way the lozenge twists is the same in the NS verbindend universal. Which is what this one appears to be a copy of.
dixie
Well-Known Member
Oh I see - guess you get what you pay for!
I tried several different Neue Schule bits in my current horse, all which looked very similar to me but he obviously preferred one over the others. I just didn’t get it !
Perhaps you ought to hire the NS which is the identical mouthpiece to your snaffle?
Did Joe have any ideas?
I tried several different Neue Schule bits in my current horse, all which looked very similar to me but he obviously preferred one over the others. I just didn’t get it !
Perhaps you ought to hire the NS which is the identical mouthpiece to your snaffle?
Did Joe have any ideas?
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
I really like Bombers. Currently using these and found I needed to size down from our usual 140cms to 135cms so it sat properly due to the port. They aren’t heavy like NS bits and horses both go well in them.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
Thanks for your help
Yes It is a minefield.
You mentioned a couple of things that ‘rang bells’.
My pony does rub his nose sometimes
Yesterday we had an exciting ride. I took a greater contact and we spent a good while with some low head shaking and nose to fetlocks. I felt that some of the reaction was to my use of the bit not wholly the exciting situation the other horses had placed us in.
The bit fitter is difficult to contact at the moment as she is doing another intensive course so
I feel a lengthy discussion with the bit bank might be in order.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Joe did specifically say that a red flag for numbing of the jaw/tongue was a horse rubbing his face on his legs. I have not looked up the paper he mentioned but I will try and find it.
stangs
Well-Known Member
Worth keeping in mind that this could also be a displacement behaviour, or mites, or both.
MereChristmas
riding reluctantly into the sunset
He rubs on his feed manger not his legs and not always
GoldenWillow
Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting this, it's given me a greater insight into why my horse doesn't like lozenges which I've always wondered about. I've tried NS, Sprenger and cheaper ones with different sitting/angled lozenges all with the same results.