Can people buy horses off the meat man?

[flirtygerty]

Off topic but just out of interest why wouldn't you employ someone of 56? Looking back at the last 5 people employed by us they were 30, 32, 61, 63 and 65.

Simply because most people that age have health issues, in my case arthritis, most days Tumeric keeps it manageable, but there are days when my dodgy knee won't work, or my hip gives out or my hands are weak, I agree older people have a better work ethic, but I have seen older people drag themselves to work, when they should be at home, I don't have a choice, if I don't work I have no income apart from a small private pension, which wouldn't cover the cost of the horses, never mind living

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I had no health issues till I was 64, I am now 69 and healthier than when 64. I can't do a day's work like I did when I was 22/34/44, but i can still do more than any "staff" I have employed, age 15. 21, 32, 51, in fact when I was on crutches and had to get a driver I was out of the van and waiting for the 51yo to join me, his job was to get my lawn mower on to the grass, and so on, in theory I would have done nothing, but he was so slow we would not have got through the day's work if I had not done some of it.
When I worked wth horses I had four or five horses to do, I mean properly, I take more time with my own ponies, but they are my hobby and I have nothing else to do, so I might spend an hour with one pony, but I could do two in that time if I chose.

 

[Goldenstar]

The horse does not know what is about to happen. Being walked to the dropping point by someone else is no different from being turned out by someone else.[/QUOTE

Your horse may be used to be handled by lots of strangers mine are not that makes it my job .

 

[ycbm]

Your horse may be used to be handled by lots of strangers mine are not that makes it my job .

We all occasionally need our horses to be handled by people they don't know as well as us. I'm sure your own horses are happy to be turned out by a number of different people. The point is, the horse is completely unaware that it is about to be killed, and it's no more upset about being led there by one of those people than you. If it makes you feel good to do it yourself, then that's great. But that's no reason to criticise other people because they thought they would upset their horses if they were there. I also think you may be wrong about how much horses can sense. You may think you are hiding it from them really well, but I couldn't be that certain myself.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Golden star you really are coming across as a very judgemental person. Whilst I do agree with you that a vital part of owning a horse is being able to budget for the essentials and one of those is emergency veterinary treatment and euthanasia, I do not agree with your attitude towards owners being present when their horse is PTS. It doesnt make you a better owner just because you were able to stay with them. It just means you are in control of your emotions.
I have never had to deal with loosing a horse but I know I will need to one day. I dont think I could stand there and watch a bullet put in my beautiful horse's heads. Even the thought makes my blood run cold. Me being there would serve no better purpose other than my distress affecting my horses. I will stay with them until the last possible moment but when the deed is done I will ask a friend or my partner to stay with them. I dont think that makes me a bad owner.

 

[touchstone]

I stay with mine for euthanasia, but if I couldn't cope without becoming distressed then I'd ask someone else to be there as long as the owner is certain that the deed has been done then that is what matters.

There must be nothing worse for the horse or vet than to have an owner sobbing hysterically into a horses mane while trying to keep things as normal and calm as possible,

 

[Nudibranch]

Surely the main point is that they are pts at home in familiar surroundings rather, rather than the technicalities of who actually stands with them at the end. Unless they are injected, you wont actually be allowed to "hold" them anyway. The vet or knacker man will take the rope, and in the case of the vet will ask you to stand behind him in case the bullet goes astray.
That is certainly my experience, of which I have unfortunate had plenty.

 

[Goldenstar]

We all occasionally need our horses to be handled by people they don't know as well as us. I'm sure your own horses are happy to be turned out by a number of different people. The point is, the horse is completely unaware that it is about to be killed, and it's no more upset about being led there by one of those people than you. If it makes you feel good to do it yourself, then that's great. But that's no reason to criticise other people because they thought they would upset their horses if they were there. I also think you may be wrong about how much horses can sense. You may think you are hiding it from them really well, but I couldn't be that certain myself.

I am allowed to hold the view that IMO it's the owners job to take responsibility for taking the desision to order the death of their own horse by being there and see the desision you have taken through to the very end .
I know I hide it well ,you can hide your feeling from horses very very easily if your body language is under control.

However I have seen a lot and I mean a lot horses shot and injected because it used to be a almost weekly occurrence at one time .
For me the time I am upset is when I make the desision by the time the day comes I am resigned to the desision I have made and ready to face the reality of that choice .
The one time we PTS one of mine on the day something happened I was calm and dealing with it but felt terrible after wards , shocked I think.

It's my view it's my duty to be there .

 

[gunnergundog]

Unless they are injected, you wont actually be allowed to "hold" them anyway. The vet or knacker man will take the rope, and in the case of the vet will ask you to stand behind him in case the bullet goes astray.
.

Not so at all.....both vet and hunt allow me to hold my own horses whilst they are shot.

 

[Nudibranch]

Mine certainly won't.

 

[Goldenstar]

Mine certainly won't.

Mine certainly do vet and hunt you lead the horse to the spot
Stand behind the vet or whoever they take the rope and I shut my eyes and talk to the horse the whole time and then it's over .

 

[stormox]

Nudibranch, they dont use a bullet, surely? When Ive seen horses shot theyve used a humane killer with a captive bolt.

 

[Goldenstar]

Nudibranch, they dont use a bullet, surely? When Ive seen horses shot theyve used a humane killer with a captive bolt.

Both my vet and our hunt use a bullet .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I am allowed to hold the view that IMO it's the owners job to take responsibility for taking the desision to order the death of their own horse by being there and see the desision you have taken through to the very end .
I know I hide it well ,you can hide your feeling from horses very very easily if your body language is under control.

However I have seen a lot and I mean a lot horses shot and injected because it used to be a almost weekly occurrence at one time .
For me the time I am upset is when I make the desision by the time the day comes I am resigned to the desision I have made and ready to face the reality of that choice .
The one time we PTS one of mine on the day something happened I was calm and dealing with it but felt terrible after wards , shocked I think.

It's my view it's my duty to be there .

I agree with GS and have always been there with my horses, of which there have been several, whenever they have been pts. I also always accompany small animals whenever necessary.

However in my first post on the subject, I acknowledged that someone the horse knows well would be a suitable person to hold the horse at for pts home. I responded with my view that the horse's owner is the best person to be there in answer to a poster who is usually very forthright in her judgements of those who don't do things her way, who was, in her usual way, verging on rude in her disagreement with GS's view.

If someone feels that they cannot support their horse in its last moments, that is between them and their conscience but I do wish that those who cannot control themselves would not pretend that that makes them more 'feeling' than those of us who can. It doesn't.

I do know that our local equine crem has taken to asking those customers whom they don't know well to leave the horse with them in its familiar surroundings because on one memorable occasion, an owner threw herself in hysterics onto the body as it was being winched onto the vehicle. Personally, I prefer not to witness that part of the process and know that it makes no difference to thehorse by that stage.

 

[milliepops]

Surely the main point is that they are pts at home in familiar surroundings rather, rather than the technicalities of who actually stands with them at the end.
.

I think this is the most important thing for me too. I have no idea whether I'll be able to stay with Millie at the end without losing control. I haven't ever felt this strongly bonded to a horse before. I know my best friend would stand in for me if I couldn't do it.
I've been holder & present for countless other horses though, for friends, and in my old job. It almost felt like a privilege to be the one to be there at their last moment.

I was never allowed to hold for the knacker, and vets have always asked for space should the horse not fall as intended.

 

[SpringArising]

Hear, hear!

And any-one who doesn't do that should be ashamed of themselves; no matter how much they have previously spent on vet bills.

You deal with it, thinking of suicide, you need a kick up the backside! That is why we need the meat man.............for the feeble.

Charming. Shame you don't reserve some of the compassion you have for animals for people.

While experience tells me it's not the case I just find it's hard to believe there are people who don't want to look their horse in the eye until the very last moment and be there to let them walk to that moment with calmness and trust your time together was built up .
Even as you do it and you think your heart will burst it's what you do see it through to end.
That's what being committed to a horse means and what taking that decision means you see it through .

Why does someone need to watch the horse die to have made the right decision? The ONLY thing the owner needs to do is make the decision to have the horse put down. The rest is irrelevant. Do you really think the horse cares who's holding the rope? If your horses can't deal with being led by someone else then there's a big flaw in their training.

Do the squeamish amongst us leave relatives to die in the company of strangers, too?.

Yeah, I mean personally I don't know anyone who's died in a care home or hospital :rolleyes3:

I know I hide it well ,you can hide your feeling from horses very very easily if your body language is under control.

Rubbish. You don't think horses can pick up on how we're feeling?

 

[Equine_Dream]

If someone feels that they cannot support their horse in its last moments, that is between them and their conscience but I do wish that those who cannot control themselves would not pretend that that makes them more 'feeling' than those of us who can. It doesn't.

Equally I wish those, who say its wrong for an owner not to watch their horse die, would stop pretending that they are "better" owners than the rest of us. They are not.
The most important thing is that the horse is PTS in a safe familiar environment and in the most humane and dignified way possible.
I really hope when I have to face that decision I dont need to deal with anyone like some of you judgemental lot on this thread.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Charming. Shame you don't reserve some of the compassion you have for animals for people.


I would find that incredibly rude but can only imagine that you don't go into The Club House. I would be offended except that I don't worry about the opinions of strangers.





Yeah, I mean personally I don't know anyone who's died in a care home or hospital :rolleyes3:

I have no idea what you meant by that but can assure you that I know from personal experience that it is perfectly possible to stay with a dying relative in hospital or 'care home'.


There are occasions when we should ALL put our sensitivities aside and grow up enough to face our responsibilities.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Charming. Shame you don't reserve some of the compassion you have for animals for people.


I would find that incredibly rude but can only imagine that you don't go into The Club House. I would be offended except that I don't worry about the opinions of strangers.





Yeah, I mean personally I don't know anyone who's died in a care home or hospital :rolleyes3:

I have no idea what you meant by that but can assure you that I know from personal experience that it is perfectly possible to stay with a dying relative in hospital or 'care home'.


There are occasions when we should ALL put our sensitivities aside and grow up enough to face our responsibilities.

So even though an owner has cared loved and done everything possible for their horse, had veterinary treatment, made the brave but hardest decision to let their horse go, and made sure its done in a humane and dignified manner: all that goes straight out of the window when they can not watch their horse die. I must be a very childish irresponsible owner then. Sorry but what utter rubbish.

 

[SpringArising]

There are occasions when we should ALL put our sensitivities aside and grow up enough to face our responsibilities

That's done the moment the owner decides to call it a day for the horse. I just don't understand why you and GS feel the owner MUST see the bullet go into the horse's head in order to be responsible and 'grown up'. Being grown up is doing what's best for both you and the horse.

 

[touchstone]

Just thinking about the Bhs friends at the end scene too, they also offer to stay with the horse whilst it is done, so they mustn't think it's a bad idea.

I've stayed with plenty of horses that I didn't own for the vet and knackerman, I found the emotional detachment to be better all round.

 

[YorksG]

Staying, or leaving the horse with a trusted other is a world away from the premis in the OP, where this much loved horse was sent to the "meat man", although we have now found out that the friend did not commit the offence of sending a horse which should have been signed out of the food chain for meat.

 

[touchstone]

Staying, or leaving the horse with a trusted other is a world away from the premis in the OP, where this much loved horse was sent to the "meat man", although we have now found out that the friend did not commit the offence of sending a horse which should have been signed out of the food chain for meat.

That's very true.

 

[gunnergundog]

I know that this is moving things on a tad...the latter part of this thread, as mentioned above, has focussed on whether the owner is happy or not to stay with their horse during a planned euthanasia......but I would be interested to know how people would react in the following scenario.

This isn't (to me) an entirely hypothetical situation, but just for a moment imagine that you are out on your own in the middle of nowhere on your dearly beloved 18 year old that you have owned for 14 years. Horse is now just a happy hacker due to arthritis.

Without going into all the details, horse suffers catastrophic injuries and is majorly distressed; it is clear to you (experienced owner) that there is no other route other than euthanasia (we are talking high swinging front limb, due to break, arterial bleed, plus soft tissue damage lower down the limb. (Trust me, no need to call a vet, horse can't be moved, but is seriously distressed.) You happen to be at the end of the drive to the hunt kennels; someone is there who could shoot your horse and put it out of its misery within minutes. What would you do?

 

[milliepops]

Yell or run up the drive to attract attention and get the horse shot. No question.
In that case, I think the adrenlin would carry me through without doubt no matter how great the attachment to the horse. I'm one of those good in a crisis people

 

[Equine_Dream]

Yell or run up the drive to attract attention and get the horse shot. No question.
)

This. There is no other choice in this case. Its an emergency situation so totally different to a planned euthanasia.

 

[Nudibranch]

When the vet massively messed up the injection for my old mare, I did indeed run up the road to the kennels with that very aim, as the vet had over an hour's return journey to fetch his gun. Sadly nobody was in.

(I had requested the gun when I made the appointment, and allowed the vet to change my mind about injecting when he arrived without it, but that is another story.)

 

[gunnergundog]

This. There is no other choice in this case. Its an emergency situation so totally different to a planned euthanasia.

OK...so, treading carefully here and also playing devils advocate...if you choose in this circumstance to stay with your horse, why not in the planned scenario? (Not picking at you personally EquineDream) but just trying to ascertain if adrenaline is the key differentiator? Also, if people (generalising here!) can/are prepared to stay with their horse in one circumstance then why not in another?

 

[hibshobby]

I did, a late-teens ex-possibly polo pony, ex-possibly trekking pony but never really knew. I had 11 fantastic years hacking and hunting a 15.2 cobby mare who was my horse of a lifetime. She taught me loads and I'd like to think she had a lovely life doing what it turned out she loved to do.
I'm sure many aren't as lucky as she and I were, but don't write them off - sometimes it works.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Surely the main point is that they are pts at home in familiar surroundings rather, rather than the technicalities of who actually stands with them at the end. Unless they are injected, you wont actually be allowed to "hold" them anyway. The vet or knacker man will take the rope, and in the case of the vet will ask you to stand behind him in case the bullet goes astray.
That is certainly my experience, of which I have unfortunate had plenty.

Sorry, but i have held a few for others this year as also in past years, plus also holding my wonderful cob on Monday at home in the sunshine
.
The only thing now is that you have to be on the off side as the new up to date gun, expels shell to the right