Can people buy horses off the meat man?

[twiggy2]

Sorry, what does that mean?
pts is a euphemism for killing a horse.

Put to sleep is a euphemism for putting to sleep with a lethal dose of medication not shot, or it is in vet circles. A slaughterman does not put to sleep an animal

 

[Goldenstar]

Put to sleep is a euphemism for putting to sleep with a lethal dose of medication not shot, or it is in vet circles. A slaughterman does not put to sleep an animal

No it's not we called it PTS before drugs where routinely used to poison horses to death and all horses where shot.

 

[justabob]

No it's not we called it PTS before drugs where routinely used to poison horses to death and all horses where shot.

I think we used the phrase *put down*

 

[Goldenstar]

While experience tells me it's not the case I just find it's hard to believe there are people who don't want to look their horse in the eye until the very last moment and be there to let them walk to that moment with calmness and trust your time together was built up .
Even as you do it and you think your heart will burst it's what you do see it through to end.
That's what being committed to a horse means and what taking that decision means you see it through .
It's not about the bill you can sell stuff ,beg off family it's not that expensive to have a horse shot it about walking the talk right up to the moment .
I don't think I really grasped the responsibility of horse ownership until I had my first PTS when I was thirty ( my other where still alive or died in the field suddenly )I will never forget leading her ( on crutches with a broken hip ) to the spot .
I think that was the day I grew up.

 

[justabob]

You have hit the nail on the head GS. I have just done everything you have discribed in your post.

 

[Natch]

Good grief - you can't budget for every eventuality and sometimes people get stung. How many people even know if their policy covers euthenasia and removal - my friend didn't.

Can't budget for every eventuality? The one eventuality you can be certain of is death. I wouldn't necessarily have savings stashed away for the death of my horse, especially if it was unlikely to be soon but I'd be damn sure I had the availability on my credit card.

As for it being normal to not know what your horse's insurance covers... It IS normal to plan ahead for what you would do if your horse needed to be euthanaised, including method, by whom, disposal, cost AND if your insurance will cover any of it. It's part of responsible horse ownership.

I know of someone who bought two ponies directly from Potters, so it is, or at least used to be possible.

I used to ride, and was offered for free, a lovely horse who was bought from Turners. He'd been enjoying his second chance at life for 10-15 years.

Sorry but no-one can see what the future holds, I have four horses, 1 youngster, 2 oldies and an 11 yr old, worked hard for a decent wage and could afford my horses and lifestyle, got made redundant, went self employed as I couldn't see anyone employing a late middle-aged woman, when you don't have a regular income, savings disappear fast, 11 yr old now on loan, youngster up for sale, oldies are my problem as I couldn't afford any kind of pts just now, luckily they are in good health, my horses, my problem, but I never thought I would ever be in this position and my business is growing slowly, so there is a glimmer of hope, but I did consider suicide at one point with the mounting problems, so never think it can't happen to you

I'm so sorry that you've been through all that. It's happened to a lot of people. I'm pretty sure charities will quietly help out people who have had a massive change in finances and their horse then needs to be PTS.

 

[AmyMay]

While experience tells me it's not the case I just find it's hard to believe there are people who don't want to look their horse in the eye until the very last moment and be there to let them walk to that moment with calmness and trust your time together was built up .
Even as you do it and you think your heart will burst it's what you do see it through to end.
That's what being committed to a horse means and what taking that decision means you see it through .
It's not about the bill you can sell stuff ,beg off family it's not that expensive to have a horse shot it about walking the talk right up to the moment .
I don't think I really grasped the responsibility of horse ownership until I had my first PTS when I was thirty ( my other where still alive or died in the field suddenly )I will never forget leading her ( on crutches with a broken hip ) to the spot .
I think that was the day I grew up.

Rubbish, and totally unfair.

I've had three horses shot, and have stood with none of them. My anxiety, upset (sobbing) would have helped neither the horse nor the huntsman.

Each horse has been presented calmly to the huntsman, and stood quietly and without stress up until the moment they were shot.

You want to stand there whilst they receive a bullet, good for you. Clearly not everyone is 'grown up' enough to do that.

 

[Goldenstar]

Rubbish, and totally unfair.

I've had three horses shot, and have stood with none of them. My anxiety, upset (sobbing) would have helped neither the horse nor the huntsman.

Each horse has been presented calmly to the huntsman, and stood quietly and without stress up until the moment they were shot.

You want to stand there whilst they receive a bullet, good for you. Clearly not everyone is 'grown up' enough to do that.

Yes good for me it does not mean I feel it any less than more outwardly delicate horse owners .

 

[YorksG]

Yes good for me it does not mean I feel it any less than more outwardly delicate horse owners .

Yet again I find myself agreeing with you, I do wish that people would not equate sentimentality with sensitivity.

 

[Meredith]

Everyone makes the best decision they can at the time. It is not my position to judge anyone in the circumstances of losing a horse.
My friends sent me away when my beloved horse was PTS at home. We decided that I would say goodbye and leave. My horse would not be upset in her final moments by an hysterical sobbing owner and that she would calmly and unknowingly have her pain ended. That is one instance of my kind of caring, but it may not be the chosen route for others.

 

[Leo Walker]

Sorry but no-one can see what the future holds, I have four horses, 1 youngster, 2 oldies and an 11 yr old, worked hard for a decent wage and could afford my horses and lifestyle, got made redundant, went self employed as I couldn't see anyone employing a late middle-aged woman, when you don't have a regular income, savings disappear fast, 11 yr old now on loan, youngster up for sale, oldies are my problem as I couldn't afford any kind of pts just now, luckily they are in good health, my horses, my problem, but I never thought I would ever be in this position and my business is growing slowly, so there is a glimmer of hope, but I did consider suicide at one point with the mounting problems, so never think it can't happen to you

My sister went through something similar. She had a sharp trak mare, beautifully bred (one of the Muschamp mares) and graded, who ended up barren and was broken to ride, at which point my sister took her on and adored her for a good 5 years. My sister was a full time carer to my grandparents and her OH was the bread winner. They split up, suddenly and over night. He left her with nothing. She went from having several horses, most of whom were rehomable and did get good homes, to being left with a sharp mare who wasnt really rideable and couldnt be bred from anymore.

She really didn't have the money for PTS, she couldn't afford to buy food for her and her daughter most days. If you are really truly broke them a few hundred quid is beyond your means. I offered the money to PTS and she turned it down and rehomed her as a companion. We still don't speak to this day as I was so, so, soooooo furious with her! But thats beside the point. There are people who bad things happen to who find themselves without the money to eat who really cant find the few hundred quid to PTS.

What would help massively, is charities offering to fund PTS. The money they spend on one small coloured cob colt could give lots of horses a kind ending. But it doesnt happen! They get funding from rehabbing rescues that have no real future, no one seems to want to donate to a PTS fund

 

[Leo Walker]

sorry, I missed out the important bit where the mare ran up thousands of pounds in vet bills to find out why she was an explosive lunatic. Turned out she had horrific kissing spines, so was never a viable option to rehome her as a riding horse

 

[stormox]

A PTS fund!!!! what next. You will have people queueing up to get their unrideable, lame ,horses theyr just fed up with, cant sell or whatever killed just because they cant be bothered to find homes or look after them themselves. Money to charities should be used for 're-habbing rescues' -thats what we give donations for.
(The banning of hunting is no help either as not that many years ago the hunts didnt charge for killing.)

 

[Goldenstar]

Before you buy a horse you need to have a plan .
And one of the things you need to be able to do is afford to have your horse PTS, PD whatever you want to call it.
You need to realise even if you have insurance this cost may be down to you .
Too many people get horses with airy fairy ideas you need concrete plans about how you will deal with bad luck .
If you keep your horse out all the time you need a plan for how you and the horse will cope if it's injured and has to be rested inside.
If you buy a very young horse you need a plan about how you going to afford to give it a good start to it's working life if you can't do that yourself .
Too many people buy horses with rosy plans to cope on the basis of every thing going according to a rosy best case scenario plan , it rarely goes well all the time .

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I think we are off topic, that s hho for you

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

We all take risks in life, and things can go very wrong, latterly I bought horses who were sound, and not nutty, but that was after I had about 20 years experience, my first horses were unsound [vetted], nutty [I was an innocent] and I had a lot of v bad luck, with pretty much all of them them. Sh[[t happens.
I think no one should not take on a horse because it is cheap, for most people the purchase cost is not much compared to keep costs.

 

[turkana]

My sister went through something similar. She had a sharp trak mare, beautifully bred (one of the Muschamp mares) and graded, who ended up barren and was broken to ride, at which point my sister took her on and adored her for a good 5 years. My sister was a full time carer to my grandparents and her OH was the bread winner. They split up, suddenly and over night. He left her with nothing. She went from having several horses, most of whom were rehomable and did get good homes, to being left with a sharp mare who wasnt really rideable and couldnt be bred from anymore.

She really didn't have the money for PTS, she couldn't afford to buy food for her and her daughter most days. If you are really truly broke them a few hundred quid is beyond your means. I offered the money to PTS and she turned it down and rehomed her as a companion. We still don't speak to this day as I was so, so, soooooo furious with her! But thats beside the point. There are people who bad things happen to who find themselves without the money to eat who really cant find the few hundred quid to PTS.

What would help massively, is charities offering to fund PTS. The money they spend on one small coloured cob colt could give lots of horses a kind ending. But it doesnt happen! They get funding from rehabbing rescues that have no real future, no one seems to want to donate to a PTS fund

I've been in a similar situation, although my OH didn't leave me but lost his job, so overnight our income was more than halved. I did have a few thousand in savings for a rainy day, which very quickly got used up keeping a roof over our heads.
It's all very well saying you should have a plan before buying a horse, I did have a plan but that went to pot when I had to use my savings on paying the mortgage.
Sadly my horse was fataliy injured in the field resulting in her being put down on humane grounds - I had to borrow the money to pay for it, as all my back up money had gone.
I would donate to a PTS fund as I know what it is like to walk away from my much loved & dead horse thinking "how the hell am I going to pay for this?"

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Before you buy a horse you need to have a plan .
And one of the things you need to be able to do is afford to have your horse PTS, PD whatever you want to call it.
You need to realise even if you have insurance this cost may be down to you .
Too many people get horses with airy fairy ideas you need concrete plans about how you will deal with bad luck .
If you keep your horse out all the time you need a plan for how you and the horse will cope if it's injured and has to be rested inside.
If you buy a very young horse you need a plan about how you going to afford to give it a good start to it's working life if you can't do that yourself .
Too many people buy horses with rosy plans to cope on the basis of every thing going according to a rosy best case scenario plan , it rarely goes well all the time .

I couldn't agree more!

And can we add to the list of plans, that you need to have a plan for where you will pts (whatever the method you choose) which will allow access to the removal vehicle - this is particularly relevant to those who buy their own land, otherwise 'living the dream' can easily turn into a nightmare.

Perhaps some people should grow up a bit more before they buy a horse, whether it be for themselves or for their children. Do the squeamish amongst us leave relatives to die in the company of strangers, too?

I am a great proponent of keeping pets being a good way to teach children life skills and responsibility for others, for me, one of those responsibilities is keeping a lid on my own emotions until the appropriate time, which is *after* the end of life.

 

[touchstone]

I wholeheartedly agree that owners should have access to money for euthanasia, evn if it is just on a credit card.

I have always budgeted for it as any horse, even fit, healthy young stock can colic or break a leg,and frankly if people aren't prepared for that then I would question whether they should be keeping a horse.

If funds are getting low then horses would be better off sold or pts before funding runs out completely. Harsh and hard to do, but the horse's welfare is the most important thing.

I'd always pts at home, using the more expensive vet, but all horse owners can join the national fallen stock scheme for free, which will give a list of local services and costs;it also gives a bit of leeway in being able to pay the following month instead of immediately.

 

[Stockers]

I wholeheartedly agree that owners should have access to money for euthanasia, evn if it is just on a credit card.

I have always budgeted for it as any horse, even fit, healthy young stock can colic or break a leg,and frankly if people aren't prepared for that then I would question whether they should be keeping a horse.

Exactly - if your horse breaks a limb it needs to be destroyed. I sincerely hope no one would delay calling in the approproate parties to do this on ground of money.

 

[MagicMelon]

Exactly - if your horse breaks a limb it needs to be destroyed. I sincerely hope no one would delay calling in the approproate parties to do this on ground of money.

This. I've only just paid off a big vets bill for eventually euthanising a pony of mine a few months ago, you just have to find the money in circumstances like this. I'd never send a horse to the meat man, mine don't even leave the premises once they're dead (I have mine buried in their field). I owe it to my horse to have them PTS in the quietest, most dignified way possible which would always be at home. I find it so sad that so many horses have such an uncaring end to their lives. If I were a dealer, I'd think nothing of buying off the meat man if it means I'm helping save them, my problem would be that I couldn't choose - I'd want to buy them all.

 

[flirtygerty]

flirtygerty;
I am sorry but there should be an untouchable fund of some kind, whether that be a credit card, or separate bank account, or sock under the mattress, to cater for the unexpected/unthinkable happening.

And at the risk of sounding unfeeling; I am not sure how your suicide would have helped your horses. However I am glad that you found a way forward and hope that your business grows successfully.

And just for the record, I was made redundant in my 40s, at no point were the horses not catered for.

My horse are catered for, but once I had the farrier do all four at the same time, now trimming is staggered, as is worming, it was only my horses and recently disabled OH that kept me going, I am a strong person, but not superwoman and being unemployed at 56 is no laughing matter, I wouldn't employ someone that age, so I made my own job, my point was, don't say you should cover all eventualities, because you can't, in 2 yrs I spent £60.000 keeping my lifestyle and new business going

 

[ycbm]

While experience tells me it's not the case I just find it's hard to believe there are people who don't want to look their horse in the eye until the very last moment and be there to let them walk to that moment with calmness and trust your time together was built up .
Even as you do it and you think your heart will burst it's what you do see it through to end.
That's what being committed to a horse means and what taking that decision means you see it through .

It's not about the bill you can sell stuff ,beg off family it's not that expensive to have a horse shot it about walking the talk right up to the moment .
.

The horse does not know what is about to happen. Being walked to the dropping point by someone else is no different from being turned out by someone else.

 

[Archangel]

being unemployed at 56 is no laughing matter, I wouldn't employ someone that age,

Off topic but just out of interest why wouldn't you employ someone of 56? Looking back at the last 5 people employed by us they were 30, 32, 61, 63 and 65.

 

[stormox]

Surely everyone who has a horse realises there are going to be veterinary costs? These must be factored in when you first ask yourself 'can I afford this horse'? In my opinion, euthanasia comes under the heading of 'veterinary' and people should be aware of how much keeping a horse- vet, farrier, diesel to yard or for towing horse around, worming, dentist et al costs......... the price of the horse itself is minute in comparison. And if it looks like your circumstances might change, SELL the horse BEFORE you cant afford to keep it!

 

[ester]

Do you think people always get notice of a change in circumstances? Or that horses are always saleable? - and given the latter would you PTS just in case it looks like your circumstances might change? Given the issues with my employer over the last 12 months poor old Frank would have been PTS numerous times!

(Though if it got to that point I would ask someone else to pay for me before he ever left the yard!)

 

[Pearlsasinger]

(Though if it got to that point I would ask someone else to pay for me before he ever left the yard!)

Exactly! You have a plan! Which is just what those of us who have said that you should have a contingency for the unexpected were advocating.

 

[honetpot]

Poor meat men, they always get a hard time. They deal with the horses that people don't really care about, they provide a service. A service with no strings attached, no false promises, no mention of rescuing, they just sent them to the knackers. If, you care, you will stand by your old, lame, or dangerous horse. Hold it and stand by it. For the weak, feeble and uncaring there is always the meat man, and unfortunately so many can not take on that final decision. It should never be about cost, because if you DO care you just get on and do it. Real horsemen/women do.

I have known two meat men, one has just died aged 92. He told me when they brought in tractors they literally took horses out of harness off the field and loaded them on to the trains to go for slaughter.
Its recycling at its basic. When there is no money about his son would constantly be rung by people with ponies they had problems with either through lack of money or the pony was unsuitable for the child and they needed to get rid of it and wanted some money. So he would buy them at a knock down price because he basically didn't want small ponies as there is little profit in them He would also buy at sales, put them of cheap grazing, if anyone wanted one he would sell it on, otherwise like cattle they went when it was time.
A lot of TBs out of training that do not sell at auction go straight to slaughter, I think that far better than then doing the rounds on FB. There are some far cheaper options for euthanasia if you shop around it rather that a lot of people would rather not face the realities of that problem, and sell it on hoping it will end up in a 'nice home', no horse dealer is going to say anything else.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have known two meat men, one has just died aged 92. He told me when they brought in tractors they literally took horses out of harness off the field and loaded them on to the trains to go for slaughter.
Its recycling at its basic. When there is no money about his son would constantly be rung by people with ponies they had problems with either through lack of money or the pony was unsuitable for the child and they needed to get rid of it and wanted some money. So he would buy them at a knock down price because he basically didn't want small ponies as there is little profit in them He would also buy at sales, put them of cheap grazing, if anyone wanted one he would sell it on, otherwise like cattle they went when it was time.
A lot of TBs out of training that do not sell at auction go straight to slaughter, I think that far better than then doing the rounds on FB. There are some far cheaper options for euthanasia if you shop around it rather that a lot of people would rather not face the realities of that problem, and sell it on hoping it will end up in a 'nice home', no horse dealer is going to say anything else.

Too right about the farm horses. They just went off in lorry loads. Any dealer provides a service, of taking away the unloved/unwanted which is unpalatable but we are finding what the alternative, with stories of dead horses being dumped.

 

[twiggy2]

Yes good for me it does not mean I feel it any less than more outwardly delicate horse owners .

I agree with this but accepting that you are no in control enough of your emotions to be of any assistance to the horse or the huntsman/vet is a tough decision for people to make, I have taken dogs to the vets on their final visit in place of the owners because of the owners being distraught and have been able to be of more use because I was calm and not emotionally wrecked. I witness small animal euthanasia on an almost daily basis and I wish more people did not feel that they have to be present through some kind of misplace guilt/loyalty-I held all 3 of my dogs this year but realise I am very fortunate to put my emotions to oneside till the deed is done and I can say hand on heart that I was the right person to hold each and every one of them.
As long as the act is carried out in a calm and considerate manner I honestly think very few horses give two hoots as to who is at the end of the lead rope when they go especially in the case of shooting as they usually have their head in a bucket of feed whilst the deed is done.