CAN YOU HELP !! :)

[ofcourseyoucan]

sadly there are worse fates than humane slaughter. someone i know took 3 dartmoor hill ponies as weaners. they are very feral. despite a lot of time spent on them .. castrating, jabs, worming, delousing (they were very poor on arrival) and time trying to handle them they are still on the feral side although fat and shiny now!!. and sadly due to indiscriminate breeding their conformation leaves a lot to be desired.
So NO i wont be offering to take one or buy one as, this has been said previously, it is just funding more indiscriminate breeding. the farmers ought to geld 99% of their stock. and if continueing need to change the stallion yearly otherwise they will all be inbred.

 

[Rose Folly]

Dartmoors, Welsh, NFs - it's all the same. The market is hopeless for ALL horses at the moment, and these ponies are at the bottom of the barrel. I was shot down on this forum some weeks ago for saying that I'd like to see dogs licenced, with a substantial charge for un-neutered dogs. The same should apply with horses/ponies. You can't spay the mares, but you can castrate the colts. It might concentrate the minds of the wanton breeders of horses, be they 'Moorland Mousies' or not. And as stated, these are not pure Dartmoors, they are mongrels. Doesn't make them any the less delightful, but they don't run true to any type, and some are inbred.

 

[CornishB]

I rehomed one of the ponies a few weeks ago. I was worried about "fuelling the fire" and just adding to the vicious cycle that many wild ponies go through. So I completely understand many of the comments. However after a lot of thought and research, I took the decision to buy from HOPE -knowing that the pony I bought was from a farmer who has acted responsibly and is now gelding his stallions. Whilst I made that decision feeling it was the right thing to do, I do understand that others would disagree.

But I am surprised at some of the negative comments about the charity.

Yes I paid the equivalent of meat money but I wouldn't expect to pay less and this included passport and microchipping.

Some people are suggesting the ponies are substandard quality. Whilst I appreciate that they haven't got lovely pedigree lines, Hope make it clear what you are getting and the ponies seem to make good, hardy, ponies. Photographs of previous ponies show you the type and many have been relatively successful in the show ring. I completely understand that as wild ponies they are not suitable for anyone but by asking for references from a Vet the charity are acting responsibly to find suitable homes.

Rhino- yes HOPE are a charity. I think when the FB page replied to an enquiry they asked her to email and certainly didn't 'approve' a home without a vet's reference. As I understand if you are unable to meet their reference requirements, they make regular home visits (including prior to rehoming the pony) which are referred to on the fb page too. I think that was what the 'get round this' comment was meant to mean rather than that implied meaning... But fb messages are notorious for being ambiguous and easy to misinterpret so I could be wrong!! But definitely the impression I got, from the many telephone conversations and the lengthy call to my own vet that HOPE undertook, are that they are completely dedicated to the wellbeing of these ponies.

The ponies are brought in off the moors in drifts and may have been in a holding yard for a few weeks whilst they are microchipped and rehomed. So 'straight off the moors' might mean as good as straight off the moor as they will still be unhandled. As I understand, the money that the charity makes via donations funds caring for the ponies which are not able to be rehomed until such a time that they do find suitable homes.

Phew a ridiculously long post. Sorry!

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I rehomed one of the ponies a few weeks ago. I was worried about "fuelling the fire" and just adding to the vicious cycle that many wild ponies go through. So I completely understand many of the comments. However after a lot of thought and research, I took the decision to buy from HOPE -knowing that the pony I bought was from a farmer who has acted responsibly and is now gelding his stallions. Whilst I made that decision feeling it was the right thing to do, I do understand that others would disagree.

But I am surprised at some of the negative comments about the charity.

Yes I paid the equivalent of meat money but I wouldn't expect to pay less and this included passport and microchipping.

Some people are suggesting the ponies are substandard quality. Whilst I appreciate that they haven't got lovely pedigree lines, Hope make it clear what you are getting and the ponies seem to make good, hardy, ponies. Photographs of previous ponies show you the type and many have been relatively successful in the show ring. I completely understand that as wild ponies they are not suitable for anyone but by asking for references from a Vet the charity are acting responsibly to find suitable homes.

Rhino- yes HOPE are a charity. I think when the FB page replied to an enquiry they asked her to email and certainly didn't 'approve' a home without a vet's reference. As I understand if you are unable to meet their reference requirements, they make regular home visits (including prior to rehoming the pony) which are referred to on the fb page too. I think that was what the 'get round this' comment was meant to mean rather than that implied meaning... But fb messages are notorious for being ambiguous and easy to misinterpreso I could be wrong!! But definitely the impression I got, from the many telephone conversations and the lengthy call to my own vet that HOPE undertook, are that they are completely dedicated to the wellbeing of these ponies.

The ponies are brought in off the moors in drifts and may have been in a holding yard for a few weeks whilst they are microchipped and rehomed. So 'straight off the moors' might mean as good as straight off the moor as they will still be unhandled. As I understand, the money that the charity makes via donations funds caring for the ponies which are not able to be rehomed until


such a time that they do find suitable homes.

Phew a ridiculously long post. Sorry!

If HOPE is a registered charity, could you let me know their number, please? Can't seem to find it on the Charity Commission website.

 

[CornishB]

If HOPE is a registered charity, could you let me know their number, please? Can't seem to find it on the Charity Commission website.

Competely my quick typing they are a not for profit organisation. Sorry! xx

 

[rhino]

If HOPE is a registered charity, could you let me know their number, please? Can't seem to find it on the Charity Commission website.

It's not there, I checked earlier. To be fair, they don't claim to be on their website

 

[CornishB]

If HOPE is a registered charity, could you let me know their number, please? Can't seem to find it on the Charity Commission website.

It's not there, I checked earlier. To be fair, they don't claim to be on their website

Yep sorry that was my mistake. They are a not for profit organisation. x

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Cornishb - I find these animal 'rescue' not for profit organisations highly suspicious. NFP organisations can and do make profits, it all comes down to how they distribute these profits. I, being slightly cynical, suspect these profits may not invested back into the organisation but used to fill someones pockets.

 

[CornishB]

I agree about some organisations spending funds dubiously blazing saddles. I have stopped supporting some registered charities when I looked at how they spent their funding.

And I can only speak from my experience with Jenny and Mary from HOPE that they seem completely genuine in their attempts to improve the wellbeing of the ponies so I trusted them. Mary has worked hard to get the farmer she has been working with to geld his stallion.

I also feel like I paid a very small amount for a microchipped, passported, sound, friendly and (in my probably biased opinion) pretty filly so I am happy with what I got for my money!

 

[CornishB]

(And can I add that I love the dog's admiration quotation! My dog is the only one who does tell me I'm wonderful though. Sorry completely off topic.)

 

[jhoward]

holding pens, this is a term for a pen/yard/barn on the owning farmers land, so again, people are paying to feed/care for the ponies that have been brought off the moor at the publics expense.. yeah i can see the farmers rubbing hands together a bit more they dont even have to pay to feed their own ponies!

the above is not a generalisation at hope or any other charity.. it is a fact of what happens.

im sure your filly will be lovely as i said ive known a lot of the hill ponies become ridden ponies etc but they are in the minority compared to how many are bred.

 

[FairyLights]

and as long as this goes go on the more ponies that will go through the cycle, i wouldnt call it suffereing as they are not, they are bred, they live on a huge moor, they get herded off the moor, i dont see that as suffereing.

however in answer to the question what about the current ponies.. well they are in the cycle and so long as do gooders pay money for them the farmer have the biggest reason to breed them, it doesnt even come down to the history/up keep of the moors themselfs.

Very well said.

 

[CornishB]

holding pens, this is a term for a pen/yard/barn on the owning farmers land, so again, people are paying to feed/care for the ponies that have been brought off the moor at the publics expense.. yeah i can see the farmers rubbing hands together a bit more they dont even have to pay to feed their own ponies!

the above is not a generalisation at hope or any other charity.. it is a fact of what happens.

im sure your filly will be lovely as i said ive known a lot of the hill ponies become ridden ponies etc but they are in the minority compared to how many are bred.

I was told that the money paid to HOPE is for the pony, microchip and passport and have no reason not to believe this, particularly given the amount I paid. As I understand, any other donations made to HOPE support the ponies that cannot be rehomed within a few weeks and does not go to the farmer to pay him for feeding his own ponies. From the fb page, this care is provided at other 'foster' carers not at the farmers holding yard- the foster carers aren't paid themselves but provide a temporary home until a permanent one is found.

 

[VKMCC]

It's a sorry story but these ponies seem to end up being 'rehomed' to people without the experience/time/money to deal with them.
?

I have recently rehomed one of these ponies and very glad i did. The ponies HOPE rehome are not just given to anyone, any potential owner is vetted to make sure they are able to give these ponies the care and handling they need. And i dont think anyone that i know of has taken on any of these ponies thinking it was going to be easy or cheap.

I paid a small fee which included passport and microchipping which was a hell of a lot less than the amount of money i paid to get my very well bred warmbloods passport from his Stud (who is now in retirement due to "perfect breeding"that he only lasted in competition till the age of 9). I know own 7 "mongrels" as people are referring to them and have to say i have done just aswell with them in competition than my perfectly bred warmblood and they are lasting past the age of 9. I think it is a bit unfair to cast off these dartmoor "mongrel" ponies as they can be just as good as your perfectley bred ponies.
I do agree that over breeding on the moors of all ponies is a massive problem and that something needs to be done. Unless the government bring a law in insisting that all stallions get gelded or taken off the moor then it is down to charities like HOPE to help try to convince farmers to do so like what they have done with this farm. It may only be one farmer but you have to make a small start somewhere.

 

[jhoward]

I was told that the money paid to HOPE is for the pony, microchip and passport and have no reason not to believe this, particularly given the amount I paid. As I understand, any other donations made to HOPE support the ponies that cannot be rehomed within a few weeks and does not go to the farmer to pay him for feeding his own ponies. From the fb page, this care is provided at other 'foster' carers not at the farmers holding yard- the foster carers aren't paid themselves but provide a temporary home until a permanent one is found.[/QUOTE

HOPEs own words.. We also provide them with feed whilst they are in the holding pens with the farmers

i really dont want to keep bringing hope into this as my bug bear isnt with them directley and it is not fair, but they are a prime example, the bloody farmer doesnt even have to feed his own ponies, and i can pretty much guarentee you the farmer never paid for the castration of his own stallions either.

its not just hope i know of other set ups, and also farmers that breed that do the same..

 

[Clodagh]

Trouble is the mass breeding of these mongrel ponies whos parents have no conformational benefits, or performance records, just a uterus and a pair of testicles and are then available for peanuts also floods the market so that a proper, nicely bred, handled and child suitable pony is deemed as being worth not much more.
Sorry, bad grammer and long sentance!
Theres a man in the village with 3 dartmoor hill pony colts, now 2 years old, still unhandled, still ungelded and all three had lami this summer.
To be fair a friend took on two and although truly pig ugly ponies as adults, and they really were, both had lovely temperaments after lots of work and made driving ponies.

 

[CornishB]

Very well said.

If HOPE have got the farmer (who's ponies they are currently rehoming), to geld his stallion what more can they do to stop the cycle? If they keep working with new farmers surely this is a (slow) but positive process? I agree that buying at the sales just fuels the problem but HOPE are working to stem the cause of the problem they are not JUST rehoming.

 

[Pippamoo]

I am very disappointed at the negative comments here. I live here on Dartmoor, and I don't know of any farmers "rubbing their hands together" and I am pretty certain that, whether you agree with this process or not, the organisers at HOPE are doing their level best to protect animals they care deeply about and are not pocketing any profits...quite honestly, they work very hard for very little recompense and could make far more money in a "normal" job. Life here on Dartmoor is tough, especially for farmers. People on this horse lovers' forum may understand more than most the special relationship humans have with ponies which is not quite the same as the relationship with cattle or sheep. Those of you who are attributing all sorts of money making motivations to farmers/ organisers need to be aware of the massive campaigning down here to manage the Dartmoor pony better, and many stallions are being gelded. There is also a contraceptive trial going on. Meanwhile, foals are suffering and if people can offer land, time and the ability to learn/ or experience in looking after equines then I am all for it.

 

[Mare Stare]

I keep hearing the term "small fee" but noone has stated how much it is.

How much is the "small fee" for these ponies? And how much would the meat man pay? It keeps being said that the fee covers the chipping and passporting but these would come to around £40 tops - less if bought in bulk.

I can go out and buy a half decent passported welshy that would make a good kids' pony for about £20-30 at auction. Admittedly, the sellers are selling at a loss but in the current financial climate I really don't see any incentives for buying a potentially inbred, unhandled pony for much more than that, especially when they are both at risk of ending up at the slaughterhouse.

 

[CornishB]

I was told that the money paid to HOPE is for the pony, microchip and passport and have no reason not to believe this, particularly given the amount I paid. As I understand, any other donations made to HOPE support the ponies that cannot be rehomed within a few weeks and does not go to the farmer to pay him for feeding his own ponies. From the fb page, this care is provided at other 'foster' carers not at the farmers holding yard- the foster carers aren't paid themselves but provide a temporary home until a permanent one is found.[/QUOTE

HOPEs own words.. We also provide them with feed whilst they are in the holding pens with the farmers

i really dont want to keep bringing hope into this as my bug bear isnt with them directley and it is not fair, but they are a prime example, the bloody farmer doesnt even have to feed his own ponies, and i can pretty much guarentee you the farmer never paid for the castration of his own stallions either.

its not just hope i know of other set ups, and also farmers that breed that do the same..

Again I'm not from HOPE myself so clearly got that bit wrong- but the website is being open about how its money is being spent. The pony I paid for was in a pen for a couple of weeks and I am glad it was fed. I would expect that the cost of any youngster I bought to have some of the costs covered of looking after it within that price. I paid £52 for a sweet natured filly with a passport and microchip. I could have got a cheaper one at the sales but then I would have been fuelling the cycle - I know that the farmer this filly is from has gelded his stallion. Again if some of the money left after the feed, passport and microchipping goes towards this and it means less hillponies are bred for me then I am quite happy for my money to be spent this way. If people don't want their money to be spent at least trying to stop the cycle then of course don't get one! I thought it might help and wanted a pony so feel that was the right decision for me.

 

[Potato!]

People on this horse lovers' forum may understand more than most the special relationship humans have with ponies which is not quite the same as the relationship with cattle or sheep.

So that makes it ok then to for cattle or sheep to be kept on the moor then but not ponies.

And as of yet nobody else has answered my question of what we would fee these animals in the zoo's if these ponies dont go to slaughter

 

[jhoward]

Pippamoo welcome.. another new poster as it happens i have enough knowledge of the processes, and more than one of the DHP charites/set ups to form an opinion. let the farmers loose money, let the ponys get put in the incinerater, a huge lose is the only thing that will make farmers stop breeding. if theres no demand there is no point, if there is no point there will be much less breeding.

the other thing that i find amusing is the idiots that think they can get a pony for the price of a passport and microchip then flog it on a month later for a few hundred quid.

on the other hand i know a lady who has a lot of the DHP and they sell for over 1.5k at around 4yr old

 

[VKMCC]

Small fee was £52 which is the cheapest passport and microchip i have ever paid for my warmbloods passport cost me 260 euros.

 

[CornishB]

I keep hearing the term "small fee" but noone has stated how much it is.

How much is the "small fee" for these ponies? And how much would the meat man pay? It keeps being said that the fee covers the chipping and passporting but these would come to around £40 tops - less if bought in bulk.

I can go out and buy a half decent passported welshy that would make a good kids' pony for about £20-30 at auction. Admittedly, the sellers are selling at a loss but in the current financial climate I really don't see any incentives for buying a potentially inbred, unhandled pony for much more than that, especially when they are both at risk of ending up at the slaughterhouse.

It's £52 for a pony. It is more than the meat man but if I buy a dartmoorhill at auction I may be buying from a farmer who hasn't had his stallion gelded. This way I do? It's such a tricky situation but I felt I'd rather pay a little more and know??

 

[Potato!]

another thing is if they are shot/sent to slaughter then it's they are a damn sight better off that the american mustang who are rounded up into corrals than left to die as no one wants them and it's illega;l to slaughter them over there.


And i wonder what incentive the farmer has to geld his stallion i wonder as it renders that animal useless and worthless My guess is the bullet will be if not already has been for the pony

 

[jhoward]

Again I'm not from HOPE myself so clearly got that bit wrong- but the website is being open about how its money is being spent. The pony I paid for was in a pen for a couple of weeks and I am glad it was fed. I would expect that the cost of any youngster I bought to have some of the costs covered of looking after it within that price. I paid £52 for a sweet natured filly with a passport and microchip. I could have got a cheaper one at the sales but then I would have been fuelling the cycle - I know that the farmer this filly is from has gelded his stallion. Again if some of the money left after the feed, passport and microchipping goes towards this and it means less hillponies are bred for me then I am quite happy for my money to be spent this way. If people don't want their money to be spent at least trying to stop the cycle then of course don't get one! I thought it might help and wanted a pony so feel that was the right decision for me.

I was not at any point having a personal dig at yourself.

 

[CornishB]

Pippamoo welcome.. another new poster as it happens i have enough knowledge of the processes, and more than one of the DHP charites/set ups to form an opinion. let the farmers loose money, let the ponys get put in the incinerater, a huge lose is the only thing that will make farmers stop breeding. if theres no demand there is no point, if there is no point there will be much less breeding.

the other thing that i find amusing is the idiots that think they can get a pony for the price of a passport and microchip then flog it on a month later for a few hundred quid.

on the other hand i know a lady who has a lot of the DHP and they sell for over 1.5k at around 4yr old

Completely agree that the ultimate aim is to stop the over-breeding. But if you only buy from a farmer who's gelded his stallion that is surely a step in the right direction? Hope look for 'forever' homes (I'd assume to try and dissuade people who do it to try and make a profit). I just wanted to put across my own experience of HOPE which was a positive one. Obviously others have different opinions!!

 

[Mare Stare]

It's £52 for a pony. It is more than the meat man but if I buy a dartmoorhill at auction I may be buying from a farmer who hasn't had his stallion gelded. This way I do? It's such a tricky situation but I felt I'd rather pay a little more and know??

Well, that seems a reasonable amount to me. I was under the impression it would be more. I don't think anyone would be making much of a profit out of that.

 

[CornishB]

I was not at any point having a personal dig at yourself.

Oh didn't mean to suggest you were

 

[rhino]

Hope look for 'forever' homes

How do they do that? Nobody is going to admit to buying something to sell asap at profit. Are the ponies still 'owned' by HOPE and out on permanent loan or are they the legal property of the new 'owner'? If they are signed over then HOPE have no way of knowing if they are going to forever homes or not. And considering they don't routinely geld the youngsters before they 'rehome' them how do they know they are not perpetuating the backyard breeding cycle?