Can you turn a hot horse into a calm one?

Yes I guess so. Though actually I think some riders improve their horses beyond what might normally be expected and you ad Kira fit into that category. There are degrees of limitation!
 
Ambers Echo said:
How I feel I am doing depends what point of view I take: As a rider, I have gone from 70cm unaffiliated on an easy pony to BE90 on a challenging horse and from being towed around to actually influencing my horse to some degree. So I as a rider have improved a lot over the 3 years I've had her. Amber, on the other hand, is still only using a fraction of her ability. So I have done a pretty rubbish job of producing her. I can't help thinking about where she could be with a decent rider who would have gone out BE with her 3 years ago and be goodness knows where with her by now.

But I know I am not the rider to help her reach her potential. I am just trying to get as good as we can be together. I will always be the limiting factor in our partnership and I guess that does not really matter. At least that is what I keep telling myself!
Click to expand...

As a hardened Eventing fan I would love to see what Amber did in professional hands because I think she is supremely talented.

But do not take that the wrong way. It is a compliment of the horse NOT a criticism of you.

She is your horse, you have done a great job getting to where you are now given your limited previous experience and you still have a lot further to go. Easier said than done, but you need to enjoy this journey while it lasts.

when you get a chance have a listen to this:
http://eventingpodcast.com/ief-spec...Naic_wWR96rPm2xPgpU8qUzxH_nG7J8Q7ymRyqOTPSC8U
 
Ambers Echo said:
How I feel I am doing depends what point of view I take: As a rider, I have gone from 70cm unaffiliated on an easy pony to BE90 on a challenging horse and from being towed around to actually influencing my horse to some degree. So I as a rider have improved a lot over the 3 years I've had her. Amber, on the other hand, is still only using a fraction of her ability. So I have done a pretty rubbish job of producing her. I can't help thinking about where she could be with a decent rider who would have gone out BE with her 3 years ago and be goodness knows where with her by now.

But I know I am not the rider to help her reach her potential. I am just trying to get as good as we can be together. I will always be the limiting factor in our partnership and I guess that does not really matter. At least that is what I keep telling myself!
Click to expand...
Gosh, don't be so hard on yourself. There is a lovely article in this week's H&H by Carl H. Last paragraph when he is talking about Escapado who he finished third on in the Europeans. "I wish I'd had the knowledge and experience I have now because he was a very hot type of horse, he still could have been even better".
 
Ambers Echo said:
Yes I guess so. Though actually I think some riders improve their horses beyond what might normally be expected and you ad Kira fit into that category. There are degrees of limitation!
Click to expand...
Well yes, but IMO it's better (more fun, more interesting, safer) to have a horse that is potentially better at a sport than you are, because they can help you out when you need it. Than a horse that you think you can teach to do stuff which is beyond its natural talents... i wouldn't want to be trying to take Kira XC for instance, I am more capable than she is there so in theory I ought to be able to produce her for it, but it would be recipe for diaster!
 
Ambers Echo said:
Amber, on the other hand, is still only using a fraction of her ability. So I have done a pretty rubbish job of producing her. I can't help thinking about where she could be with a decent rider who would have gone out BE with her 3 years ago and be goodness knows where with her by now.

But I know I am not the rider to help her reach her potential. I am just trying to get as good as we can be together. I will always be the limiting factor in our partnership and I guess that does not really matter. At least that is what I keep telling myself!
Click to expand...
So what? You and she are (I think) having a great time together. No horse is wasted who is cared for and having their needs met appropriately. No horse sits in the field watching the world go by and thinks if only I had a better rider I could have been at Badminton/HOYS etc - that is the prerogative of 5 year old children!
 
ihatework said:
As a hardened Eventing fan I would love to see what Amber did in professional hands because I think she is supremely talented.

But do not take that the wrong way. It is a compliment of the horse NOT a criticism of you.

She is your horse, you have done a great job getting to where you are now given your limited previous experience and you still have a lot further to go. Easier said than done, but you need to enjoy this journey while it lasts.

when you get a chance have a listen to this:
http://eventingpodcast.com/ief-spec...Naic_wWR96rPm2xPgpU8qUzxH_nG7J8Q7ymRyqOTPSC8U
Click to expand...

Thanks I will have a listen later. Yes I need to enjoy the journey. It could all end anytime. And much as I'd also love to see her out there playing with the big boys, I love her too much to give her up. I just have to remember how extraordinarily lucky I am to have a horse like her to ride.
 
milliepops said:
Well yes, but IMO it's better (more fun, more interesting, safer) to have a horse that is potentially better at a sport than you are, because they can help you out when you need it. Than a horse that you think you can teach to do stuff which is beyond its natural talents... i wouldn't want to be trying to take Kira XC for instance, I am more capable than she is there so in theory I ought to be able to produce her for it, but it would be recipe for diaster!
Click to expand...

I've never thought of it that way. It is nice to know Amber is nowhere near her limit when I out her at a fence.
 
Thanks everyone, feel free to give me a cyber-slap. I've just been a bit more windy than usual after she carted me at Somerford a couple of weeks ago!

Pic evidence for a giggle....

80692571_2706979496048781_2838758909169106944_n.jpg



And then my 'jumping' lesson where I did not leave the ground. And then a hairy hack yesterday. So I'm back in 'I can't ride this horse' mode. But I CAN ride her. I dealt with all those situations, and today she was awesome. I'll shut up now.
 
you are much more capable than you think, you have a lovely horse who is being looked after beautifully by you and you are learning more each time you ride her. just enjoy what you have and dont worry about reaching her potential, she will be happy with lots of turn out and plenty of food just the same as other horses. i am sure you wouldnt want a safe plod who could barely jump a cross pole , just remember to have lots of fun..:D
 
splashgirl45 said:
you are much more capable than you think, you have a lovely horse who is being looked after beautifully by you and you are learning more each time you ride her. just enjoy what you have and dont worry about reaching her potential, she will be happy with lots of turn out and plenty of food just the same as other horses. i am sure you wouldnt want a safe plod who could barely jump a cross pole , just remember to have lots of fun..:D
Click to expand...

Thank-you, that's a lovely thing to say.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Thank-you, that's a lovely thing to say.
Click to expand...

And please, please do enjoy and treasure every moment.
The mare I compared her to was taken far too soon, and I wish I had put my brave pants on a bit sooner and got more done with her. Like you, she was working at about 25% of her capability level - but don't feel bad about that, treasure it- who doesn't want to be cantering down to a 1m fence knowing their horse could jump the advanced track?!
 
sportsmansB said:
but don't feel bad about that, treasure it- who doesn't want to be cantering down to a 1m fence knowing their horse could jump the advanced track?!
Click to expand...

Love this.
Don't shut up, AE, some of the threads you start are the most interesting ones on the forum so I would hate to think you felt like you shouldn't express this stuff, but also don't get stuck trying SO hard that you forget to sniff the roses ;)
 
I love that we all worry so much about our horses not reaching their potential & constantly question whether we are good enough for them. That is what motivates us to keep going when times are hard & to keep trying to improve & develop as riders. Never lose that, but rest assured that no horse ever was disappointed that it’s rider wasn’t good enough to help it reach it’s potential. The most important thing is that we are giving our horses a good quality of life & making sure they are healthy & their basic needs are met. Enjoy what you have & push those feelings of self-criticism away - a belated New Year’s resolution!
 
I would say that with consistent riding over a number of years you can. There's will always be the odd higher energy day but a mare I bought as no ones ride at aged 7 turned into a very reliable mount by age 13. It took a lot of work and she was never a beginners ride but became utterly reliable for me and my more novice sister.
 
Upthecreek said:
I love that we all worry so much about our horses not reaching their potential & constantly question whether we are good enough for them. That is what motivates us to keep going when times are hard & to keep trying to improve & develop as riders. Never lose that, but rest assured that no horse ever was disappointed that it’s rider wasn’t good enough to help it reach it’s potential. The most important thing is that we are giving our horses a good quality of life & making sure they are healthy & their basic needs are met. Enjoy what you have & push those feelings of self-criticism away - a belated New Year’s resolution!
Click to expand...

Completely agree with this. The horse doesn't care, in fact most would, I suspect, prefer not to reach their potential. Too much effort! Too much risk of injury etc. The same goes for the drive for people to reach their potential. Too stressful for many, who just want a quiet, comfortable life.
 
thought of this again yesterday while having a particularly wild ride ;)
I think I'm fairly good at nipping Kira's antics in the bud through riding emphatically leg to hand and just not letting her entertain the naughty thoughts, but still not good enough to prevent them all the time.
Yesterday was fairly exceptional because the weather was appalling but we still had lots of dancing around on the hindlegs and teleport-spooks. She became infinitely better when really given a job to do so she didn't have anywhere near as much brainspace to do pissing about. A more novice rider or someone not as sticky may not have even got as far as being able to put her to work but as I know her inside out it was just a spell we had to get through while she agreed to let me control her thoughts and organise her body. she didn't become calm, she just became focussed and then she was pretty rideable.

Many of us have similar horses. I think it's easy to overlook how much you do as a rider because I went more or less into autopilot but without knowing how to do that she'd have been back in the unrideable section. I think you can think you've calmed your horse down, but actually you've just tuned its brain into a more useful set of stimuli and if you stop giving them then it will revert back to being a nutcase :p
 
Just to add to MPs post, I had an interesting situation with Rose on Monday. She is not a hot horse as such, I would describe her as a bit backward thinking, but when she loses the plot she can be quite a handful. I took her to my trainer's yard and as luck would have it Storm Brian (or some such name) was doing it's worst so I led her down to the indoor school in a howling gale and pouring rain. Building work was going on next door and suddenly she decided she couldn't cope and I had her passaging, piaffing and rearing in hand. Trainer put her on the lunge and gave her something to do rather than think about the commotion going on. I (reluctantly) got on and we did all the control type exercises that we've been working on. eg round enough, soft enough, infront of the leg, listening to the leg, keep chucking movemnts at her so she had to listen to me. I still had a horse on the edge but she actually did some of the very best work ever and she felt increasingly rideable and soft. It was a massive confidence boost for me as I felt I could use that energy to help me rather than being intimidated by it.
 
That's really interesting oldie48 and MP and I feel Deedee is similar. Maybe they all do better with a job.

I rode Deedee in a lesson at the weekend - again in a gale! I've not really ridden her before - Izzy has done all the riding - but Izzy is out of action so I need to work her. She is feeling VERY VERY VERY well at the moment! She's the type who needs riding pretty much every day anyway and it just has not been possible with the weather. So I needed a lot of persuading to get on board (and indeed stay on board as after 10 minutes I got off again!) But eventually I got my leg on, rode her properly, gave her a job and she really settled and did some lovely work. It's just very hard to do for a windy rider! Amber can be over the top but I know where things go with her - and she never throws her toys out the pram or bucks/broncs. With a new one it's had to know where that energy will end up!

ETA I have only just seen some really nice helpful replies on page 1 that I somehow missed first time round! Thanks all. xx
 
That's really interesting oldie48 and MP and I feel Deedee is similar. Maybe they all do better with a job.
Ha, trainer would substitute "job" with "rider". One of her biggest beefs is that when a horse really needs a rider ie when it's being tricky that's when so many riders eg me, stop riding. It's taken me the best part of a year to have the confidence to ride Rose when she's being difficult for exactly the same reason as you give, not sure what it will escalate to. Well done for sticking with DeeDee in such vile conditions, I cancelled on Saturday! Edit to say, trainer said to cut Rose's feed down which I have done, you might try the same with DeeDee.
 
I think this is pretty normal, I teach it all the time, even in calm situations you need to give the horse a job to do. Obviously it depends on the character of the horse, but so many riders are not pro active enough in asking the horse to do something, and then the lazy horse switches off and becomes dead to the aids, the spooky horse gets spookier, the hot horse gets hotter, but its all the same issue. Most riders when in a situation they find scary freeze and hang on for dear life (very understandable!) and are just praying "please dont spook/buck/gallop off) unfortunately praying isnt that effective. If you can keep breathing, and instead of praying start thinking of things you CAN do, eg keeping a positive, forward rhythm, changes of direction, different size circles, transitions, lateral work (if the horse understands it) all these things give you and the horse something positive to focus on and it solves a huge number of problems. Its the same with young horses, they are prey animals, and they want to trust a positive, confident leader, if they feel the leader is not in control they take over, and thats not good, they want to know who is flying the plane.
 
I had a bit of a light bulb moment along these lines when riding a sensitive soul last week. I realised that I was aiming not to do anything to make him worried, but what I needed to do was to do things to make him calm, ie. I had to be giving him a job and keeping him focussed on me
 
daffy44 said:
I think this is pretty normal, I teach it all the time, even in calm situations you need to give the horse a job to do. Obviously it depends on the character of the horse, but so many riders are not pro active enough in asking the horse to do something, and then the lazy horse switches off and becomes dead to the aids, the spooky horse gets spookier, the hot horse gets hotter, but its all the same issue. Most riders when in a situation they find scary freeze and hang on for dear life (very understandable!) and are just praying "please dont spook/buck/gallop off) unfortunately praying isnt that effective. If you can keep breathing, and instead of praying start thinking of things you CAN do, eg keeping a positive, forward rhythm, changes of direction, different size circles, transitions, lateral work (if the horse understands it) all these things give you and the horse something positive to focus on and it solves a huge number of problems. Its the same with young horses, they are prey animals, and they want to trust a positive, confident leader, if they feel the leader is not in control they take over, and thats not good, they want to know who is flying the plane.
Click to expand...
good summary.
Had another dose of this today riding Darcy, he really appreciates the leadership thing and I slightly struggle to give him ENOUGH clear guidance, as I'm used to horses that will be fairly self sufficient in between instructions.
I have started telling myself to take control - sounds stupid but I need to remind myself to do that in the microsecond where something can go from totally fine to completely *not fine* ;) it's my job to hold his hand then and make sure he feels like he knows exactly what his job is leaving no room for misunderstanding.

Main thing for me with a hot one is to engineer a situation where I can get my leg on. With Darcy that's leg yieldy circles at the moment, I just have to park the feeling that they are rubbish when he's jittering all over the place and wait for the exercise to do its work. When I can ride him forward properly then it feels a lot less dicey.
 
milliepops said:
good summary.
Had another dose of this today riding Darcy, he really appreciates the leadership thing and I slightly struggle to give him ENOUGH clear guidance, as I'm used to horses that will be fairly self sufficient in between instructions.
I have started telling myself to take control - sounds stupid but I need to remind myself to do that in the microsecond where something can go from totally fine to completely *not fine* ;) it's my job to hold his hand then and make sure he feels like he knows exactly what his job is leaving no room for misunderstanding.

Main thing for me with a hot one is to engineer a situation where I can get my leg on. With Darcy that's leg yieldy circles at the moment, I just have to park the feeling that they are rubbish when he's jittering all over the place and wait for the exercise to do its work. When I can ride him forward properly then it feels a lot less dicey.
Click to expand...


100% agree, I think being able to get your leg on is vital from the start, hot horse or not. At home on even an educated, sensible horse, once I've walked, trotted in a stretch the next thing I do is move the horse around from my leg, just in walk, but I need to know I can get my leg on and get the responses I want. With a youngster or hotter horse its even more vital, I want to get them moving under my control, and leg yield, either on a circle or to the wall is top of my list, as I have to be able to egt my leg on safely asap.
 
daffy44 said:
100% agree, I think being able to get your leg on is vital from the start, hot horse or not. At home on even an educated, sensible horse, once I've walked, trotted in a stretch the next thing I do is move the horse around from my leg, just in walk, but I need to know I can get my leg on and get the responses I want. With a youngster or hotter horse its even more vital, I want to get them moving under my control, and leg yield, either on a circle or to the wall is top of my list, as I have to be able to egt my leg on safely asap.
Click to expand...

My hottest one (that no one else wants to ride out hacking ?) is a sweet dream to ride if you put your leg ON and ride her into your hand. The silliness melts away and she becomes obedient and sensible. I can hack her bareback, leading a child on a pony... But no one ever listens when she is getting faster and faster and I am telling them to put their leg on to slow down!!
 
Haha - to slow Jenny down you just need to drop the reins. Just drop them onto her neck and she goes 'oh is work over for now' and comes back to walk. Pick them up again and she's like 'yippee where are we going' and she's off again. God I love that pony x.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top