CDJ withdrawn from paris

[I'm Dun]

And as far as all the bekind stuff goes, when Leo was stolen on loan and I "stole" him back, I was the victim of a hate campaign. My name was splashed all over social media, the stuff that was said about me was insane, from I murder cats to Leo was living on a gypsy camp, crammed into a tiny barn with 20 other cobs, complete with photo. My info was doxed and people threatened to come to my house. It was horrible. Especially as what was said wasn't true. I ended up in a right state over it once he was home and safe. But he initially disappeared and in order to find him I splashed his details all over the internet, when I did that I knew that I would be at the centre of a social media storm. It was worth it to get him back. I came off social media when it got too much and the police had to be involved with the man culprits. That helped as if you can't see it, you don't know.

Sometimes in life there are consequences to your actions. CDJ will have known that if this sort of thing ever came out then she was done for, but she did it anyway. There was an element of choice in her actions. I have no doubt she is devasted at being caught out, but she will also know she did do it. And unfortunately as such a public figure its going to be big news.

Shes not evil, shes just the product of a flawed system driven by money and success, and she is far from the only one to train like this. I don't wish her ill and hope she has support around her. But this does need to be discussed. This is a chance to start to put right all the wrongs with competitive horse sport.

 

[lizziebell]

Owned by the Australian lady videoing.

Who by all accounts isn’t exactly an angel herself when it comes to training methods/ welfare of her own horses (!?)

 

[cauda equina]

And apparently wasn't horrified enough at the abuse to stop it there and then

 

[Miss_Millie]

On Facebook an equine vet made a post saying they're going to boycott buying Charles Owen helmets because she 'made them successful', and therefore they were wrong to drop her. This is the definition of idol worship to me, utterly astounding coming from a vet, but then again we all know that not every equine vet puts welfare at the top of their priority list It's just so disappointing to equine professionals of all people, trying to shift focus from the core of the issue, which is systematic abuse of horses in the industry.

We have a culture of riding helmets in this country, to say that CDJ popularised wearing a helmet is utter nonsense. I am a non-competitive rider, my choice to wear a CO helmet is nothing to do with any kind of celebrity or top rider, they're quality helmets with a good design, as are Champion helmets and I'm happy to wear both.

 

[Sandstone1]

Has anyone seen any of her riding demos such as at Your Horse Live or similar? I was there a couple of years ago watching her, she was on a grey mare. There was part of the demo that I think shocked the whole audience, it certainly earned a gasp from the crowd. The horse was riding around in canter (beautifully in my amateur view)…out of seemingly nowhere Charlotte whipped the horse 3 times very sharply and very hard in my opinion. The (confused!) horse shot off to the other side of the arena in a panic. Charlotte then told us breathlessly that is what she wanted, for the horse to react sharply as she’d put her leg on and it hadn’t reacted quickly enough in her opinion. She then continued doing this a few times…really riling the horse up and her saying she does this in training. Every time the horse panicked and bolted forwards. I remember watching really shocked by it and it has never sat easy with me, even as she tried to explain her logic I couldn’t wrap my head around it. She was hitting hard, you could hear the whip deafeningly from near the back where I was sat. Why would you want to create such a panic in your horse so much that it bolts around with you just to get an invisibly sharper reaction. It was complete fear based training and I’ve gone off the woman completely since watching that made me very sad for her horses.

I have seen her at your horse live a few times. I saw her demonstrating how she teaches with a girl riding and her also riding but teaching too. I do remember her saying she doesn't ride the very young horses much as it too dangerous. I did see her ride a grey mare. Possibly called Flo? I didn't see her do anything horrendous there . The demo wasn't the most interesting I've seen.

I've also seen Carl there and did enjoy his demos more to be honest. I really hope I'm.not going to be disappointed in him.if more comes out.
I wonder if Your Horse live will drop her now as they seem to.be there every year.

 

[cauda equina]

I've got a CO because it was relatively cheap and is the same shape as my head, nothing whatsoever to do with CD

 

[Gloi]

I think what will come out of this is that people will be more careful not to be filmed.

 

[teddy_]

On Facebook an equine vet made a post saying they're going to boycott buying Charles Owen helmets because she 'made them successful', and therefore they were wrong to drop her. This is the definition of idol worship to me, utterly astounding coming from a vet, but then again we all know that not every equine vet puts welfare at the top of their priority list It's just so disappointing to equine professionals of all people, trying to shift focus from the core of the issue, which is systematic abuse of horses in the industry.

We have a culture of riding helmets in this country, to say that CDJ popularised wearing a helmet is utter nonsense. I am a non-competitive rider, my choice to wear a CO helmet is nothing to do with any kind of celebrity or top rider, they're quality helmets with a good design, as are Champion helmets and I'm happy to wear both.

Ah yes, Charles Owen who have been manufacturing for > 110 years; it must have been CDJ who catapulted the business to success . Honestly, the mind boggles as to how some people can be so irredeemably stupid.

 

[lizziebell]

On Facebook an equine vet made a post saying they're going to boycott buying Charles Owen helmets because she 'made them successful', and therefore they were wrong to drop her. This is the definition of idol worship to me, utterly astounding coming from a vet, but then again we all know that not every equine vet puts welfare at the top of their priority list It's just so disappointing to equine professionals of all people, trying to shift focus from the core of the issue, which is systematic abuse of horses in the industry.

We have a culture of riding helmets in this country, to say that CDJ popularised wearing a helmet is utter nonsense. I am a non-competitive rider, my choice to wear a CO helmet is nothing to do with any kind of celebrity or top rider, they're quality helmets with a good design, as are Champion helmets and I'm happy to wear both.

She didn’t popularise the wearing of helmets for every day riders per se, but what she did do was make it acceptable to wear a helmet with tailcoats at the higher levels, at a time when 95% of those riders were still wearing top hats.

 

[Sandstone1]

And apparently wasn't horrified enough at the abuse to stop it there and then

Where do we find the name of the woman that reported it? Not asking for anyone to mention it here but just where it is posted as I assume it is?

 

[cauda equina]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Rowreach]

She didn’t popularise the wearing of helmets for every day riders per se, but what she did do was make it acceptable to wear a helmet with tailcoats at the higher levels, at a time when 95% of those riders were still wearing top hats.

Indeed, at a time when people (including on here) were saying that dressage would be ruined if riders wore helmets instead of top hats with their tails.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Where do we find the name of the woman that reported it? Not asking for anyone to mention it here but just where it is posted as I assume it is?

It is posted, yes but it's not that interesting. I know curiosity gets the better of all of us but it's no great revelation. She's not a name. Just an ordinary dressage rider.

 

[palo1]

She didn’t popularise the wearing of helmets for every day riders per se, but what she did do was make it acceptable to wear a helmet with tailcoats at the higher levels, at a time when 95% of those riders were still wearing top hats.

Sorry to swim against the tide but I much preferred top hats and always naively felt that a horse trained and competed at that level would be reasonably confident and level headed enough to make the brief risk worth the 'specialness' and sense of recognition that the top hats had. I know modern sports horses and their training actually doesn't support that but still, I loved the top hats! Many, many other riding cultures and riders survive even quite advanced riding without horrible, plastic, sparkly helmets but that is just my rather outmoded view

 

[Bellaboo18]

Sadly, if I type Charlotte Dujardin in the search bar on Facebook *all* that comes up is 'letters' of support for Charlotte. Has anyone seen a good version of (eta one of these letters) to show the opposing argument. Basically a post of someone's view point, not in support of the video, that's been widely spread.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Ah yes, Charles Owen who have been manufacturing for > 110 years; it must have been CDJ who catapulted the business to success . Honestly, the mind boggles as to how some people can be so irredeemably stupid.

Endorsements work, otherwise companies wouldn't spend thousands of pounds on sponsoring sports stars.

 

[equinerebel]

Truthfully, I think the IOC will sooner rather than later drop all equestrian sports. It could be now, or most likely, it'll be after a scandal or fatality during an Olympics game. I don't think anything will change within the FEI or BD, and CDJ will be welcomed back if she chooses to return. I don't see this affecting pro or amateur riders long term, but the sport will eventually dwindle due to rising costs, less land availability and climate change.

Just my opinion of where I see this going.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Sadly, if I type Charlotte Dujardin in the search bar on Facebook *all* that comes up is 'letters' of support for Charlotte. Has anyone seen a good version of the opposing argument? I think it's important to get it out there.

Really? There are literally thousands of posts condemning her.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I think we do have to recognise Charlotte’s behavior as a symptom of a problem, which starts right at the judging of tests, and includes owners and sponsors of horses (at any level), the coaches and riders with their personal ambitions.

It seems like somewhere along the line it became acceptable - and even preferable - to present a tense, unhappy horse. In fact, the tense horses are now often marked higher than the relaxed horses, because the tense horse is deemed flashier and to have more ‘presence’.

Everyone has a personal choice as to whether they believe that success in sport is worth making a horse uncomfortable, so I don’t excuse Charlotte’s behavior. But I think that a lot of people now feel that they can’t succeed at sports without an uncomfortable horse, and that is not acceptable to me.

From buying and supplying horses whose exaggerated movement will inevitably doom them to lameness issues, to ordinary training methods which are harsh and relentless, to people riding through tension with a horse and pushing tense horses hard for the ‘look’, to extremes in the way that we’ve seen with Charlotte. These things shouldn’t been seen as required in order to succeed, and they shouldn’t be rewarded with success.

We need to redefine success when it comes to horse sports, and stop glorifying stressed horses.

 

[eahotson]

Ways have.wThe general public didnt know and didn't care about Helgstrand. They care very much that someone they liked and thought was a role model has duped them. They assume if CDJ trains like this then everyone does. And horsey people/BD/FEI etc are making this a million times worse by either saying horrific things like I've seen worse, you have to push them like this, or putting out wishy washy statements. Pammy Hutton has pretty much defended her. Its been on every group I'm on on facebook, from boating to crafting to politics. The comments are variations on a theme, and don't make for nice reading.

People arent stupid, anyone watching can see how calm and collected that behaviour is. Anyone trying to minimise it or defend it is adding to the problem.

I think its a slippery slope to the end of Olympic equestrianism now. I don't think anything will stop that happening. I also think competitive equestrianism is in BIG trouble. We need to condem this as a united front, in very strong and clear terms. From the FEI downards. Every single one of us needs to say, we don't do this, this isn't right. I don't know if that would be enough, but the current situation is just making the issues worse.

The trouble is huge numbers of people do do it and always have.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

I think what will come out of this is that people will be more careful not to be filmed.

You're dead right there. The worst offenders aren't going to magically change their abusive and corrupt behaviour. They're too nasty at heart/too entrenched/making too much money/never challenged to change.

 

[lizziebell]

It is posted, yes but it's not that interesting. I know curiosity gets the better of all of us but it's no great revelation. She's not a name. Just an ordinary dressage rider.

She’s known more widely in her native Australia - and by a different surname.

 

[teddy_]

Endorsements work, otherwise companies wouldn't spend thousands of pounds on sponsoring sports stars.

When did I say endorsements did not work? However, it is simply barmy to suggest that Charles Owen would not be successful without their association to CDJ.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Another video has hit the press this morning of her warming up and swearing at her horse.

 

[Peglo]

On Facebook an equine vet made a post saying they're going to boycott buying Charles Owen helmets because she 'made them successful', and therefore they were wrong to drop her. This is the definition of idol worship to me, utterly astounding coming from a vet, but then again we all know that not every equine vet puts welfare at the top of their priority list It's just so disappointing to equine professionals of all people, trying to shift focus from the core of the issue, which is systematic abuse of horses in the industry.

We have a culture of riding helmets in this country, to say that CDJ popularised wearing a helmet is utter nonsense. I am a non-competitive rider, my choice to wear a CO helmet is nothing to do with any kind of celebrity or top rider, they're quality helmets with a good design, as are Champion helmets and I'm happy to wear both.

I read that letter and it was atrocious. The response “probably not” to “is what she did right?” left me gobsmacked from a vet. Probably??? WTAF?

And trying to get sympathy because a millionaire was dropped by a sponsor! I’m fairly sure she can afford to buy a helmet mate. I won’t lose sleep over it. Unbelievable from an educated professional.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Really? There are literally thousands of posts condemning her.

Would you care to share one. I'm referring to the letters circulating social media that start Dear Charlotte, I support you. Not a one off post.

 

[Miss_Millie]

She didn’t popularise the wearing of helmets for every day riders per se, but what she did do was make it acceptable to wear a helmet with tailcoats at the higher levels, at a time when 95% of those riders were still wearing top hats.

The post from the vet suggested that she popularised CO as a brand:

"It’s also worth noting that Charlotte has lost her sponsorship from Charles Owen helmets, a brand she popularised in my opinion. She is the reason Charles Owen remains a top choice for riders across generations and disciplines. Very dissapointing to see how easily discarded she was and I’ll always keep this in mind when purchasing a helmet."

Nonsense in my opinion. But goes to show how much fame and popularity can murky the waters.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I think we do have to recognise Charlotte’s behavior as a symptom of a problem, which starts right at the judging of tests, and includes owners and sponsors of horses (at any level), the coaches and riders with their personal ambitions.

It seems like somewhere along the line it became acceptable - and even preferable - to present a tense, unhappy horse. In fact, the tense horses are now often marked higher than the relaxed horses, because the tense horse is deemed flashier and to have more ‘presence’.

Everyone has a personal choice as to whether they believe that success in sport is worth making a horse uncomfortable, so I don’t excuse Charlotte’s behavior. But I think that a lot of people now feel that they can’t succeed at sports without an uncomfortable horse, and that is not acceptable to me.

From buying and supplying horses whose exaggerated movement will inevitably doom them to lameness issues, to ordinary training methods which are harsh and relentless, to people riding through tension with a horse and pushing tense horses hard for the ‘look’, to extremes in the way that we’ve seen with Charlotte. These things shouldn’t been seen as required in order to succeed, and they shouldn’t be rewarded with success.

We need to redefine success when it comes to horse sports, and stop glorifying stressed horses.

Agreed, but I also think that anyone who truly loved their horse(s), would not compromise their ethics to get to the top in the first place. So I struggle to have much empathy for the people who choose to put medals above their horse's welfare. I imagine that there are many talented riders out there who have kept away from (at least high level) competition for this reason. Not because they couldn't do it if they wanted to, but because they wouldn't be capable of treating their horse that way.

 

[Goldie's mum]

Someone quoted one line from Pammy Hutton but I think it's worth putting in context.

"We need to ride into the future.
I do not condone the behaviour. I will fight for riding.
If riding stops; horses are unnecessary; too expensive to keep for pets. Let the cull begin.
We all must work for a future with kindness and teach fair communication with our horses.
Welfare must come first.
Dressage is a French word for “training” these methods are not training.
However; punishment has happened .
Let us all hope next week in Paris puts “ease and harmony” back on top priorities.
And it’s not what we can do for horses, they help us.
Mentally and physically healers par none.
Please join me in working towards a future with horses paramount."

 

[cauda equina]

Agreed, but I also think that anyone who truly loved their horse(s), would not compromise their ethics to get to the top in the first place. So I struggle to have much empathy for the people who choose to put medals above their horse's welfare. I imagine that there are many talented riders out there who have kept away from (at least high level) competition for this reason. Not because they couldn't do it if they wanted to, but because they wouldn't be capable of treating their horse that way.

I expect there are many, many more low level riders who will do dubious things for competitive success
Perhaps we should not see the possibility of ending competitive horse sports as a bad thing