CDJ withdrawn from paris

[scats]

When I first saw the post on Facebook I thought couldn't they find a better picture?! It is a moment in time but it makes me think whoever is picking those pictures doesn't get what an unhappy horse looks like. They wouldn't post a picture of Laura looking like she was gurning.

Because it’s all about the rider, not the horse. Sadly.

 

[little_critter]

I have had it once happen to me spontaniously, piafe and passage are an elevated trot, when you think of the phrase, on its toes, its just that contained energy. I was out hacking on a snow cover winters day, on a road on the side of the moor. Every where was dazzling white, and the horse I think was excited, but a bit WTF, and he wanted to go but the last thing I wanted to do was let him go on a slippery road, and we bounced up the road no faster than a walk in trot, for about half a mile Sometimes a horse will bounce on the spot in anticipation and I have certainly seen this in the field, they often do it before the rear, if your riding paddling is a warning.

We had that, it was peacock induced.

 

[eahotson]

I haven't felt the need to comment so far on this thread because lots of other people have already reflected my views but we now seem to be at the stage of "what can we do about it?" One thought occurs to me - there are lots of very knowledgeable spectators at dressage events so how about some direct action? Nothing to upset the horses of course but placards and posters pointing out the things we think are wrong with the way dressage is going and the scoring system the judges use.

Probably a mad idea.

The Germans whistle.

 

[suestowford]

It will never happen, but I'd love to see what happened if we did the equivalent of the mustang challenge with our top dressage riders. Let them all pick an unbroken British native pony. Exmoor/fell/highland/welsh etc and then give them x amount of time to do a novice test, then a medium test etc. It would make for incredibly interesting viewing, promote our native breeds and showcase the talent of the rider for training horses, which is what dressage is supposed to show, not whose warmblood can fling its legs the most.

I love the idea of giving them all a native pony to do dressage on. I know of several Fells who do very well at dressage even without the extravagant movement of the warmbloods.
Remembering my Fell, I was thinking about what his response would have been to someone whacking him around the legs repeatedly like that. He was one who would fight back if too much pressure was put on him, apparently his sire was exactly the same. There would have been injuries. You know the saying: Ask a mare, tell a gelding, pray if it's a pony!

 

[I'm Dun]

My old boy, an enormous heavy weight cob would have killed them. He came from a physically abusive home and his response is to get in first and ask questions later. I've never had an issue with him after the first few months, as I'm always fair and never use physical punishment. But, and I don't say this lightly, he's lethal if he thinks anyone is going to hurt him. She'd have had quite the surprise had she whalloped him with a lunge whip!

 

[Goldenstar]

I find myself questioning everything now. I just opened Instagram to see the attached… it’s just a moment in time but… oh.

To be clear I have no issue with Laura’s horsemanship (as far as I know) and I’ve not watched the test. I also prefer eventing dressage to pure dressage for its simplicity. I am not criticising Laura, the fact it’s her is irrelevant, this is just one example… I find myself questioning if these horses really look like happy athletes. View attachment 143624

These moments mean everything except to the horse .
I Agree it is not a good photo .

 

[Kat]

I think the way forward has to involve bringing some objective measures into dressage judging. At present our higher level judges especially seem to be blinded by flashy movers and big names and unable to see past this to reward correct but unflashy.

Therefore I think we need to have some kind of video/AI review which checks for overtrack, symmetry of leg angles, face BTV, paces having the correct number of beats etc. This then applies penalties or a score adjustment or something.

This would delay final scores but hopefully would eventually help retrain judges.

It would only be possible at the higher levels in competition but the message would filter down and it could be used for judge training at lower levels to help them see and reward correct movement and engagement over flash and face.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I’ve written to my riders.

Riding and training other people’s horses can be very pressured - one naturally wants to show progress to the owner. I want you to know that you will always, always have my support to say “not today, the horse isn’t with me” and just try again the next day. I don’t care whether we’ve paid for a clinic, a show, a lesson, or even a session with an Olympian - if you ever feel like the horse isn’t giving you what you need then I want you to feel absolutely comfortable to just put the horse away and try again another day. If you’re ever in a position where you’re not comfortable and you don’t think the horse is in the right space, then you’ll have my full backing to stop what you’re doing and pack up and go home, no questions asked, ever. I would rather waste all the money in the world and have a happy rider and horse. There is no value to me if either of you feel like you’re having an awful time.

 

[SO1]

It is going to be 34C on Tuesday I do wonder if it is fair to make horses compete in this sort of heat. The Olympics are normally over the summer and some of these countries get very hot.

 

[WrongLeg]

I love the idea of giving them all a native pony to do dressage on. I know of several Fells who do very well at dressage even without the extravagant movement of the warmbloods.
Remembering my Fell, I was thinking about what his response would have been to someone whacking him around the legs repeatedly like that. He was one who would fight back if too much pressure was put on him, apparently his sire was exactly the same. There would have been injuries. You know the saying: Ask a mare, tell a gelding, pray if it's a pony!

Charlotte and Emma Jayne used to do M&M working hunter on a beautiful Fell pony (I think it was a fell, it was black and hairy and around 13hhh)
I remember competing against Charlotte in native classes: to be fair, she has always been really keen on Pony Dressage.

 

[eahotson]

These moments mean everything except to the horse .
I Agree it is not a good photo .

Julie Kaiser Hansen Taylor, author of the book I can't bear to watch anymore used to write for the Danish equivalent of HH.She said their camera men just took photos and mostly didn't really understand what they were photographing, not fully.They had to go through hundreds of photos to get some that were suitable for the magazine.I watched a video of a famous groom of a famous dressage rider.He was trying to undo the plainly very tight noseband on the horse post competition and struggling.The camera man kept filming.Unaware I think really.Famous groom was shooting him looks that would kill.

 

[sbloom]

Just a thought, I know it's a very different discipline to modern dressage but do the horses in the Spanish Riding School suffer from the same physical issues and how many years/to what age are they able to perform

They took are tainted by modern dressage, especially since they've been run by a businessman and now a former bereiter. Lots of criticism from classical camps, though the horses have historically performed to ripe old ages.

I've recently joined the 'Equestrians, It's time to act's group but am already disappointed with it!

Stw up to discuss the very worst rollkur they otherwise seem to hold up rather low standards and are quick to denounce "keyboard warriors".

 

[criso]

They took are tainted by modern dressage, especially since they've been run by a businessman and now a former bereiter. Lots of criticism from classical camps, though the horses have historically performed to ripe old ages.

That's sad, I saw them many years ago. There was one horse that really wanted to do Capriole when being asked for Levade and the handler let him do a couple before going back to the planned movements.

But if historically they have had long careers, then there is no reason to ban "dancing" collected movements as being inherently bad for horses to perform.

 

[Pinkvboots]

We had that, it was peacock induced.

We have passage past the peacocks as well

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I’ve written to my riders.

Riding and training other people’s horses can be very pressured - one naturally wants to show progress to the owner. I want you to know that you will always, always have my support to say “not today, the horse isn’t with me” and just try again the next day. I don’t care whether we’ve paid for a clinic, a show, a lesson, or even a session with an Olympian - if you ever feel like the horse isn’t giving you what you need then I want you to feel absolutely comfortable to just put the horse away and try again another day. If you’re ever in a position where you’re not comfortable and you don’t think the horse is in the right space, then you’ll have my full backing to stop what you’re doing and pack up and go home, no questions asked, ever. I would rather waste all the money in the world and have a happy rider and horse. There is no value to me if either of you feel like you’re having an awful time.

This genuinely brought a tear to my eye.

 

[criso]

We have passage past the peacocks as well

Problem solved, hire peacocks to train passage

 

[JenJ]

Problem solved, hire peacocks to train passage

Also walk-canter!

 

[tristars]

Horses seeing a pig will get wow, shite, and fully engage themselves in a full on relaxed way, ie ready to take flight if needed, horses who are beaten into doing something with a rider on board will get turned on by fear, anger , confusion, and become befuddled where they are supposed to put their legs and lose the overall control because they are fearfully to anticipating the next blow, horses reveal their training by the type of tension they display when ridden, horses who are trained the long way who have time to develop over a period of years will work happily, stay sound, and look. Beautiful when they move and are ridden, they enjoy their work and progress throughout a lifetime, my oldest horse is 23 years old, he is utterly beautiful and wonderful to ride,I have ridden him for nearly 20 years, he has done extended trot since 6 years old and when he is warmed up offers it when ever ridden and shows no signs of giving it up, it's all about how you use the horse, backing off when needed, thinking what you do as a rider and never Blaming the horse, look to your training first before using force and always stop while it's going well with a happy horse who will come out another day willing to please, the power will Come but it takes time to bring everything together.

 

[Beausmate]

This could be seen as disruptive and likely get people removed, cause arguments and eventually get out of hand. The people with good intentions would be seen as the villains.

Text votes?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Also walk-canter!

Spook and run do you get points for that

 

[Teaselmeg]

Wrong thread lol !

 

[piebaldproblems]

Wrong thread!

 

[suestowford]

Spook and run do you get points for that

It was during a spook from a scary bag that I found out my Fell could do a full pass at the trot
I've also done the peacock passage...

 

[criso]

Horses seeing a pig will get wow, shite, and fully engage themselves in a full on relaxed way, ie ready to take flight if needed, horses who are beaten into doing something with a rider on board will get turned on by fear, anger , confusion, and become befuddled where they are supposed to put their legs and lose the overall control because they are fearfully to anticipating the next blow, horses reveal their training by the type of tension they display when ridden, horses who are trained the long way who have time to develop over a period of years will work happily, stay sound, and look. Beautiful when they move and are ridden, they enjoy their work and progress throughout a lifetime, my oldest horse is 23 years old, he is utterly beautiful and wonderful to ride,I have ridden him for nearly 20 years, he has done extended trot since 6 years old and when he is warmed up offers it when ever ridden and shows no signs of giving it up, it's all about how you use the horse, backing off when needed, thinking what you do as a rider and never Blaming the horse, look to your training first before using force and always stop while it's going well with a happy horse who will come out another day willing to please, the power will Come but it takes time to bring everything together.

It's all very well saying that but Gold medals suggest that under current judging and dressage standards it works, as long as you don't get caught.

 

[Miss_Millie]

On the It's Time to Act page. Do people like this actually think that ignoring cruelty and abuse will improve social licence to operate? If horse sports get banned it will be because nothing changed to improve welfare and the public will get fed up. I'm sorry but people who think like this shouldn't be allowed near a horse, let alone on their backs.

 

[equinerebel]

That attitude is absolutely certain to see equestrian sports removed from the Olympics

 

[I'm Dun]

Spook and run do you get points for that

and canter to halt, followed by canter pirouette as they slam the breaks on in horror, and spin round and bugger off

 

[Miss_Millie]

I've signed the petition to ban horse sports from the Olympics. I'm fed up of seeing photos of horses with flashes so tight they can hardly open their mouths, with their necks cranked in so much that it's a surprise they can breathe.

What pushed me over the edge is so many comments on Facebook from fellow equestrians such as the one above, so many comments berating 'happy hackers' as idiots when we're the ones with some basic knowledge of what a pain face looks like. My signature will probably achieve eff-all, but it's a virtual middle fingers to everyone who has written this kind of nonsense in defence of animal abuse in the past few days. I watched Saint Boy four years ago and clearly nothing has changed, doesn't matter what the discipline is, get horses out of the Olympics for good.

So well done you lot, that's one signature closer to a ban from a fellow Equestrian, I hope you're happy.

 

[little_critter]

Has anyone written to the FEI?, or is anyone thinking about it?
I’m kind of of the opinion that if I feel that aggrieved about the situation, I should do something about it. And writing my thoughts to the FEI seems like the correct thing to do. However (as you can tell from my posts) I’m no wordsmith.

 

[PurpleSpots]

I've signed the petition to ban horse sports from the Olympics. I'm fed up of seeing photos of horses with flashes so tight they can hardly open their mouths, with their necks cranked in so much that it's a surprise they can breathe.

What pushed me over the edge is so many comments on Facebook from fellow equestrians such as the one above, so many comments berating 'happy hackers' as idiots when we're the ones with some basic knowledge of what a pain face looks like. My signature will probably achieve eff-all, but it's a virtual middle fingers to everyone who has written this kind of nonsense in defence of animal abuse in the past few days. I watched Saint Boy four years ago and clearly nothing has changed, doesn't matter what the discipline is, get horses out of the Olympics for good.

So well done you lot, that's one signature closer to a ban from a fellow Equestrian, I hope you're happy.

And that's exactly what people minimising animal welfare does - it makes those who can (and are prepared to) see the issues shout louder.

If everyone openly accepted there are problems, acknowledged them and showed they are prepared to actively work to change them - in favour of the horse - we'd be reassured and wouldn't feel the need to fight back harder to achieve change in favour of the horse.