southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Yep. Bit disappointed in him if I'm honest.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Yep. Bit disappointed in him if I'm honest.
Equi
Well-Known Member
Coming from the other side of it…
If horses were not in the Olympics the general public would not have any idea what goes on or what can happen. It would just be “oh well we got that banned” and the horse world would just go back to being under a rock. I think it’s a good thing it has such a large platform..its the real way change can be driven.
If horses were not in the Olympics the general public would not have any idea what goes on or what can happen. It would just be “oh well we got that banned” and the horse world would just go back to being under a rock. I think it’s a good thing it has such a large platform..its the real way change can be driven.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I signed too for similar reasons.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I have written, and written, and written so many times to the FEI, to individual members of the FEI, to judges training committees, welfare committees, people I know who know high-ups in national bodies, you name it. After anodyne response, to no response I gave up, many years ago now. I chose to just leave it all behind and go do something else.
ROMANY 1959
Well-Known Member
All they need is a row of black rubbish bins with flappy bin liners hanging out. My lads polox pony did a wonderful show of dressage once walking through the village on bin dayWe have passage past the peacocks as well
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
I understand all the arguments about the fact that these sports horses are naturally really tense, and it’s really hard to ride tense horses at a really high level. I do really understand that it’s often (often, not always sadly) not the riders “fault” that the horse is tense.
But I think that if we enforced marks off for symptoms of tension, then tense horses would become less desirable rides. They’d become less sellable, and those lines of sports horses which tend towards being highly strung would become less valuable. We’d stop breeding from the horses that are known to produce very hot offspring.
There would be fewer inappropriate horses who don’t make top grade flowing down into amateur competition, and we’d have less reason to normalise tension throughout the levels. Or even to glorify it.
It might inadvertently penalise riders who are in an existing partnerships with tense horses, and owners with investments in those kind of horses. But I think it would be for the best.
ETA, I should link that to what I’ve been thinking about today which is, I wonder how much of the whipping of that horse in the video was to get that massive expression in movement that has become so popular. It didn’t look like she was trying to provoke the horse to move forward alone. She chased from behind into heavy contact, and then she hit the shoulder too, so it seemed like both pushing the horse both forward and back... so maybe it was motivated by seeking elevation in its paces that is so often deemed “expressive” these days. I’m still struggling with that video and what on earth it was trying to achieve tbh
But I think that if we enforced marks off for symptoms of tension, then tense horses would become less desirable rides. They’d become less sellable, and those lines of sports horses which tend towards being highly strung would become less valuable. We’d stop breeding from the horses that are known to produce very hot offspring.
There would be fewer inappropriate horses who don’t make top grade flowing down into amateur competition, and we’d have less reason to normalise tension throughout the levels. Or even to glorify it.
It might inadvertently penalise riders who are in an existing partnerships with tense horses, and owners with investments in those kind of horses. But I think it would be for the best.
ETA, I should link that to what I’ve been thinking about today which is, I wonder how much of the whipping of that horse in the video was to get that massive expression in movement that has become so popular. It didn’t look like she was trying to provoke the horse to move forward alone. She chased from behind into heavy contact, and then she hit the shoulder too, so it seemed like both pushing the horse both forward and back... so maybe it was motivated by seeking elevation in its paces that is so often deemed “expressive” these days. I’m still struggling with that video and what on earth it was trying to achieve tbh
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twiggy2
Well-Known Member
I agree with what your saying and why but i cant see it would be a popular route to take as, tense, sensitive horses and more likely to be expressive and responsive, more relaxed horses would potentially be more accurate and flowing, maybe they woukd just lack the wow factir for those that seek it though?
Cortez
Tough but Fair
The problem is that tension creates brilliance, the super-flashy, over-the-top extravagance that has defined top level dressage competition for at least the last 20 years. So that's what wins, that's what everyone wants to do (win), and that's the kind of horse, the kind of training that we now have. It's wrong, and it's been wrong for a generation. The people who I admired when I was starting out, Reiner Klimke, Kyra Kirkland, etc., WOULD NOT win today.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
I think / hope people would stop wanting it, if it didn’t win. So if we could mark tension down, then it would eventually become less popular.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
I get where you're coming from entirely, I'm just fed up of the endless suffering and ignorance in the industry. The governing body themselves truly don't give a damn.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
More accurate and flowing and showing harmony is what dressage should be and if the judges rewarded that way of going highly we wouldn’t be in this position. Valegro had good paces, equally both front and back but after he was rewarded so highly it seemed that the big movement in front was then what the judges liked. I never liked Totilas (not the horse himself) but his way of going but that seemed to wow everyone and then everything had spidery front legs. Charlotte then had Freestyle who everyone said was wonderful and didn’t like her way of going either. The German horse Dalera goes in a good outline and is mostly correct and we need more horses ridden like that. I can’t fault Carls riding and his horses always go well for him but he doesn’t get the sort of marks I think he deserves …
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I am starting to feel similarly. It's so frustrating. I feel powerless. I do believe it is possible to enjoy horses and riding, even competitively, without abuse and with mutual respect. But I have so little influence.
I think that I will write to BD directly to ask them directly to clarify some of their statement. I will not be putting myself forward to volunteer at events if I cannot be confident there is a place I can take welfare concerns and for them to be taken seriously.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
Whilst the discussion is broadening out somewhat and the wider topic of welfare in dressage is being looked at....Carl's horse has some form of remedial shoes on. I'm a barefooter, so I always have a keen eye on feet and as far as I'm concerned, remedial shoes are only ever used to address some form of lameness issue (pointlessly, as they don't solve the original issue and they create more on top but that's not the point of my comment). As far as I'm concerned, if you've got any kind of special shoes on, you've not got a fully sound horse.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I went back and watched Ahlerich's gold medal test last night and overall I'd rather watch that. 40 years ago
tristars
Well-Known Member
If you take a different route with riding, you end up in a different destination, it's a choice, do you want startled tension that ends in blue tongues and blood, or the true brilliance of a fully developed athlete that people enjoy watching because it can use the whole of its body softly without holding itself in distorted tension held in a grip of iron, the fei is responsible for the current trends and seem to have let things go over the edge and now they don't know what to do
honetpot
Well-Known Member
They get a lot of sports funding, from different government pots,then there is sponsorship, and sales of branded goods.
Current funding awards
Details of the winter and summer funding awards for the Beijing and Paris, Olympic and Paralympic cycles.
How ever they spin it the average rider is only affected by the Olympics by what they buy, in or after the event. Its a like F1 unatainable for the real grass roots, you not only need to have talant, the 'right' horse but money. I would rather it went on swiming pools, skate parks and ice rinks.
I am really peed off with it all. I started being interest in dressage in 1974, I can remember going to Goodwood in about 1990, and wandering to the warm up area in front of Goodwood House, and there was pehaps a couple of other people and groom. I still have the score sheet.
Its become a monster with its commercial success, and I think the whole seemly innocuous dressage to music started it off.
Mightymax
Active Member
Surely, what it boils down to is the judging. If the judges are rewarding a certain type and way of going, then that is what the competitors will produce. It's all about fads and fashion.
IF the judges started to reward the more 'Old Fashioned' and possibly the more correct and classical outlines, then that will become the 'new' big thing! Simples!
IF the judges started to reward the more 'Old Fashioned' and possibly the more correct and classical outlines, then that will become the 'new' big thing! Simples!
U.N.Owen
Well-Known Member
The 1924 Paris Olympic Games: Where the Olympic Sized Arena was Born
The 1924 Paris Olympic Games: Where the Olympic Sized Arena was Born
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
Exactly & completely this.
stormox
Well-Known Member
I really do not understand those of you wanting to ban horse sports at the Olympics.
Why just the Olympics? How does that differ from the European Championships for example?
If you think using horses for sport is wrong, you should surely want all horse sport banned.
The Olympics aren't the only place uncomfortable horses are seen.
Why just the Olympics? How does that differ from the European Championships for example?
If you think using horses for sport is wrong, you should surely want all horse sport banned.
The Olympics aren't the only place uncomfortable horses are seen.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Yep.
Like the ones that dared to mention studies showing that frothing at the mouth is actually caused by tension, not relaxation as previously thought. Pammy and her pals didn't like that and were incredibly rude and belittling.
Or the ones suggesting that double bridles be optional, not compulsory.
I'm afraid they are dinosaurs, desperately scared of any kind of change, and absolutely not the kind of people we want speaking for the us (or horses).
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Because theres a good likelihood it will happen. It might send a strong enough message to the FEI that they need to act ASAP.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I thought double bridles were now optional as well as spurs
Zoeypxo
Well-Known Member
Where did you see that?
Ratface
Well-Known Member
My Fell Pony mare would have decked anyone who didn't ask her politely to consider doing something other than what she already had in mind.
She was a spectacular jumping pony - bold over any country out hunting, successful at showjumping. Not impressed with Pony Club rallies. Too slow, darlings. Too slow.
hairycob
Well-Known Member
I've done turning round when you realise the hunt are in the woods passage and peacock walk to canter with pirouette. That did require full tail display though.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
Some basics as to how I think it could be improved.
1. Allow talking to your horse. I have NO idea why we aren’t allowed to talk. I talk to mine all the time. I want to use my voice. I want to tell her she’s doing a good job or give her encouragement. WHY can’t we? Voice instead of spurs and whip, especially at higher levels.
2. Tack. Simple snaffle. If it can’t be done in a snaffle get rid of the movement. Allow - even encourage people to go bitless. Never understood why less tack wasn’t acceptable.
3. Change the measurement of success so any sound horse could theoretically get to the highest level. That’s what’s always being pushed about dressage - that it’s good for all horses to do the scales of training. Money where their mouths are. And what about extra points for reins in one hand, commands which use voice, and back to losing marks for tail swishing/discomfort indicators?
A sea change is required. And it should be changes which help everyone to do dressage if they want to, regardless of their horse’s level of spideryness.
1. Allow talking to your horse. I have NO idea why we aren’t allowed to talk. I talk to mine all the time. I want to use my voice. I want to tell her she’s doing a good job or give her encouragement. WHY can’t we? Voice instead of spurs and whip, especially at higher levels.
2. Tack. Simple snaffle. If it can’t be done in a snaffle get rid of the movement. Allow - even encourage people to go bitless. Never understood why less tack wasn’t acceptable.
3. Change the measurement of success so any sound horse could theoretically get to the highest level. That’s what’s always being pushed about dressage - that it’s good for all horses to do the scales of training. Money where their mouths are. And what about extra points for reins in one hand, commands which use voice, and back to losing marks for tail swishing/discomfort indicators?
A sea change is required. And it should be changes which help everyone to do dressage if they want to, regardless of their horse’s level of spideryness.
Skib
Well-Known Member
They are not allowed to talk because dressage was to prepare a war horse. Talking to your horse on miitary service would give away your position, as it gave away Russian positions in WW2, or in earlier pitched battles the canon might be so loud that the horse would not hear the human voice - they needed to sound trumpets.
I talk all the time to my share horse, explaining to her that she has to do things in a certain way because that is what the YM says to do. I also inform her whether we are going to walk, trot or canter. She understands and I am idle.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
Yep I knew the origins, I just don’t think it’s a primary training focus these days, we have had 80 years to say ‘hey, y’know what, we just don’t need to worry about giving clues to enemy attackers any more, so it’s ok to talk to horses during a dressage test now’.
A good illustrator of the pace of change though. Snail’s pace.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I talk to my horses all the time BUT, I have known RS owners who have controlled their horses by voice at quite a distance. I suppose it would be possible for someone ringside to use voice aids to sideline the rider I used to know one RS owner who could control a group of at least 10 horses on their way back to their field from the yard by voice, she stood at the yard gate and watched them all turn into the field gate.