CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Clodagh]

That is completely NOT how piaffe is trained and is a gross misrepresentation of how a whip should be used in doing so. The use of padded whips and number of strikes, etc. in racing is a relatively recent thing. In the past it was routine for horses to be hit quite severely in racing.

I admit I’ve only seen piaffe being trained with the whip tapping the leg. In bad videos it’s hitting the leg. I’m pleased that it’s not normal.
And yes whip rules are new in racing, that’s a good thing (that they have been bought in). I can no longer watch Irish racing with its very loose rules.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I teach a lot of movement with a schooling whip when I’m doing ground work. I tap, touch, direct, and lay the whip still on the neck when I want the horse to wait.

No matter how anyone could look at it, it would never ever, even from a wrong angle, look like it could hurt or upset the horse.

From Charlotte’s apology, something she regrets has clearly happened. I can’t see that would be anything which would fall into the category of normal communication with the horse.

(ETA, I appreciate that my horses don’t do any of the movements I teach them at anything more than a mediocre standard)

 

[SkylarkAscending]

And waiting for this thread to be re-locked in 3…2….1…..

No I haven’t reported any posts nor will I be doing but the level of unsubstantiated speculation in some posts is absolutely incredible

 

[silv]

Indeed - 'a video has emerged' - does someone have an axe to grind?

Absolutely this.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Incidentally I hope everyone has read and understood this press release….

 

[anguscat]

This sort of riding and training is unfortunately part and parcel of modern competitive dressage. End of. I’m not surprised that something has eventually surfaced on CDJ but quite honestly this is not about her in my eyes, it’s about the culture in the sport.

The release of this video now is most definitely a spiteful act designed for maximum embarrassment and impact, of that I have no doubt. If the person taking that video really did care about horse welfare it should have been made public at the time, rather than allowing a further 4 years without investigation/ change.

That said, if there is clear horse abuse (which from CDJ statement she certainly seems to be conceding something went on) then despite the timing, it needs to be investigated and it’s 100% on CDJ.

Arguably releasing the video at a really significant time might do more for animal welfare than if it were released earlier.

 

[Birker2020]

Can we stop starting new threads instead poor admin

I did a search before i posted. Apologies

 

[FieldOrnaments]

And waiting for this thread to be re-locked in 3…2….1…..

No I haven’t reported any posts nor will I be doing but the level of unsubstantiated speculation in some posts is absolutely incredible

Why?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

I can't keep track. Bowing out.
Love and respect your horses as the incredible, powerful, gentle wonders of nature they are, folks

 

[This_riveriswild]

I don’t know the rules for the olympics, but what does CDJ’s withdrawal mean for the team, will we just have three riders? Or can they call on another reserve?

 

[Sandstone1]

Will the video be put up for public view at anytime?

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Will the video be put up for public view at anytime?

Post #80

 

[Birker2020]

In The Times allegedly.
Do they beat elephants in circuses? Who knew?

 

[Kat]

I don’t know the rules for the olympics, but what does CDJ’s withdrawal mean for the team, will we just have three riders? Or can they call on another reserve?

The format is three from three with no drop score now so Becky Moody will ride alongside Carl and Lottie. She wasn't expecting to need to ride.

I'm not sure whether they can send another travelling reserve at this stage, but that would only have an impact if something means one of the others has to withdraw.

 

[Sandstone1]

Post #80

Thanks

 

[blitznbobs]

A whip is used to train piaffe in most cases but should be used as an extension of the arm and so that the trainer can be quick and not get their hand in the way. So it's basically a pointer saying, this leg, now this leg... it should be no more than a touch like tapping with a finger... occasionally your timing can be off and it can land a bit hard but never with any force.

I use a whip for ground work every day, mostly for laying on the side or a light touch... and also rub the horse with it as a reward. It is only as an arm extension, not as a weapon. the second it is used as a weapon (except in self defence) it is simply not defensible. The 'it was a one off' isn't a good excuse, I try to substitute the situation of a teacher getting angry with a child and if the action would be acceptable.. The odd swear word and insult is undesirable but understandable (especially with my kids) but battering them would be wholey unacceptable.

Equally swearing and calling my horse a name or two is similar but battering them.. not so much -- especially for training work rather than dangerous behaviour.

Maybe I have been very luckyor chosen well but for the last 30 years I have only really bought babies and I have never had to use violence to correct behaviour and I always find violence for training counter productive, it seems to me it produces tension which is something I spend most of my training time trying to take to nothing...

 

[Upthecreek]

I am very surprised by CDJ’s statement. It is unusual for someone to say those kind of things pending an investigation. She was clearly aware that the video will end up in the public domain and that the content will not be well received. I have to say that personally I’m finding the excuses these people make when they are caught out pretty lame and disingenuous. And it makes me sick to my stomach what some people do in the name of training.

 

[misst]

Thank you blitznbobs that was helpful.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I am very surprised by CDJ’s statement. It is unusual for someone to say those kind of things pending an investigation. She was clearly aware that the video will end up in the public domain and that the content will not be well received. I have to say that personally I’m finding the excuses these people make when they are caught out pretty lame and disingenuous. And it makes me sick to my stomach what some people do in the name of training.

In her slight defence here, she hasn’t tried to make up an excuse or reason, just held her hands up and said it’s unacceptable and she’s let us down.. or her PR team have anyway

 

[equinerebel]

So you’re happy to condemn, but not prepared for others to support? (Both views obviously without proof)

CDJ isn’t supporting herself in this matter and was arguably one of the first people to call her(self) out. I’m not sure what there is to support when she has said she is ashamed of her own behaviour.

None of us have seen the video, but we’ve, presumably, all seen her own statement of regret.

 

[TheMule]

Using the whip to teach piaffe is trick training, not developing a true piaffe which is the end goal of collection (well, that or levade). But it's used very lightly as a tap-tap-tap, and shouldn’t ever cause any discomfort, let alone pain.

 

[planete]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/a...din-pulls-out-of-olympics-over-coaching-video

Just seen this.

 

[Follysmum]

In The Times allegedly.
Do they beat elephants in circuses? Who knew?

If this is correct and was my horse I would of stepped in and taken it off her

 

[planete]

If this is correct and was my horse I would of stepped in and taken it off her

The girl is now 19, she would have been 15 at the time.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

The Times article is here

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/olympics/article/charlotte-dujardin-video-pulls-out-olympics-ncxfrj2kh

On Tuesday night a Dutch equine lawyer, Stephan Wensing, said he had made the complaint to the FEI on behalf of his client, who is the sponsor of a young rider, a 19-year-old girl, who had attended a lesson with Dujardin 2½ years ago. She had filmed the lesson when Dujardin struck the horse while doing a slow trot; a piaffe. Wensing said his client had previously been “warned” not to make a complaint because of Dujardin’s standing in the sport.

“As the Olympics approached, she decided she had to act,” Wensing, who suggested the video could be made public on Wednesday, said. “In the video she [Dujardin] takes the long whip and beats the horse more than 24 times; the biggest star in dressage.

“This is a black day for dressage as well as Charlotte Dujardin. But in their statement my client says that if dressage is to survive, they must stop doing this to horses.”

 

[SkylarkAscending]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/a...din-pulls-out-of-olympics-over-coaching-video

Just seen this.

More unsubstantiated media reporting….. I’m genuinely not trying to say I think she is innocent or guilty, I’m simply saying that speculation by journalists (and not you Planete, I DO mean the journalists) isn’t helpful.

But I realise it will happen. That’s society nowadays

The lawyer is representing his clients interests not the facts of the matter, and why the girl chose just now to go public….

 

[Caol Ila]

I’m sitting in Irish music sessions watching dressage implode. It’s bloody weird.

Guardian has more details.

Dujardin banned from Olympics over allegedly ‘whipping horse 24 times’

Three-time gold medallist said she is ‘deeply ashamed’ as FEI imposes six-month suspension while investigating coaching footage

www.theguardian.com

 

[planete]

So we now have two different accounts...

 

[U.N.Owen]

Here they state it was in canter

 

[Follysmum]

The girl is now 19, she would have been 15 at the time.

Makes sense then