CDJ withdrawn from paris

[onemoretime]

Reporting all of the libelous comments.

What is it about things like this that makes people want to act like they're in the know when they don't know the first thing?

Every so often it's questioned why all the good, experienced and knowledgable posters have left HHO. Threads like this are why. Barely a voice of reason left.

I hope Carl's team go after HHO for hosting the libelous drivel being spouted by know nothings.

I completely agree with you.

 

[eahotson]

The surprise is that any of the many exposés that have come out this last year are a surprise. The top level of horse sport in the world is clearly doing stuff to win that the rest of us, and most non horse owners, would not accept, in a bid to win medals, kudos and breeding fees.

Is there any way to solve this than to halt international sport where the main piece of kit is a sentient animal?
.

Sadly I think you may be right.

 

[ycbm]

If it had been released 4 years ago it would have sunk without a trace.

I don't much doubt that the timing was strategic, but if it had been released a few days after she put a medal round her neck the reaction would be at least as great. And if it had been next year it would still, in the current climate, have got a very big reaction.
.

 

[hock]

My husnand was sent a video of a dressage mare we were potentially interested in. The mare was really lovely and it was filmed during a training session with CDJ. I’ve never seen draw reins that tight before, CDJ was training the horse and rider. We passed on the mare for obvious reasons. There was no abuse in the video in the traditional sense but it shocked me they were ok with randoms seeing how this horse was being produced. And of course it was abusive and so short sited. That’s the thing I can’t get passed, these hideously tight draw reins that were tying the front down. So sad, but legal.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

There is a large difference between tapping a horse on the legs and repeatedly hitting it in anger for example, and I will withold full judgement until I have the facts of what happened, neither is acceptable of course but both require different levels of condemnation imo.

I do however, see less and less of a way forward and a future with horse sports at an elite level, specifically dressage and showjumping.

 

[Matafleur]

Some pieces can be opinionated, or certainly used to be, unless I’m thinking of something else?

Caveat probably still stands given how the rumour mill always work

I suspect you are thinking of Dressage Hub which is generally vile and vindictive. I find Astrid at Euro Dressage to be pretty balanced on the whole.

 

[teapot]

I suspect you are thinking of Dressage Hub which is generally vile and vindictive. I find Astrid at Euro Dressage to be pretty balanced on the whole.

That's it!

 

[Patterdale]

I’ve never seen a dressage yard teach piaffe in any other way than to hit them on the hind legs with a stick.

I thought this was how they all did it -one of the many reasons I can’t stand pure dressage.

 

[Lady Jane]

Horse and Hound article seems to have completely disappeared now??

Edit: ah no its back now

Translated and quoted from there-

'The complaint was lodged with both the FEI and the British Equestrian Federation at 9am last Monday by Dutch lawyer Stephan Wensing on behalf of a client who wishes to remain anonymous.


Wensing filed a complaint on behalf of the client for animal cruelty, which is proven by a video taken approximately 2.5 years ago, according to the complaint. The video shows Charlotte Dujardin hitting a student's horse numerous times with a whip from the ground.'

Covenient to do this through a lawyer and remain anonomous

 

[Miss_Millie]

Covenient to do this through a lawyer and remain anonomous

Well when you think that the Cesar Parra whistleblower had to flee in the night and have armed guards stationed at their house out of fear of being harmed, it isn't much of a stretch to imagine that this person would want to remain anonymous.

 

[equinerebel]

I care more about the potential content of the video and what it means for the wider sport than who shared it, when or why.

 

[misst]

I’ve never seen a dressage yard teach piaffe in any other way than to hit them on the hind legs with a stick.

I thought this was how they all did it -one of the many reasons I can’t stand pure dressage.

I am so ignorant I didn't know this was common in high level dressage :-(
I knew about "rapping" in showjumping.
I feel worse and worse for my previous enjoyment

 

[Tiddlypom]

Done skillfully, they should only be light, well timed brushes with the whip to encourage the horse to lift the leg. However…

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Two equestrian contacts on my Facebook friends list have already posted in support of CDJ, one I thought well of, one I already thought very little of, lord give me strength to unfollow and not rise the the bait
I would block if it wouldn't cause livery yard drama.

 

[Sandstone1]

Not that I agree with either but is there a difference to what its alleged that CD has done to a jockey hitting a horse in a race?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

This video has been linked on another thread, it looks so much more relaxed and no spidery legs or souped up huge powerful horse. Goes back to my earlier comment about whether these horses are being made too powerful that force is now needed to contain them and get them trained?

 

[honetpot]

I was only posting last night that I do not watch the horse sports I used too because I know what goes on behind the scenes. Not too keen on showing either but at lower levels I hope its ignorance.
I think pro's ought to be held to higher standards, abuse of any sort is bad, but when someone is a position to influence others, they have sponsorships just because they have a high profile, there should be zero tolerance.

As to putting a serious complaint through a lawyer, and watching the stuff about the POL Joe Bloggs sending a letter has little effect, and there can be no suspicion they out to make a bit of money, I think if I was that concerned that how I would do it, and have an data trail.

 

[honetpot]

Not that I agree with either but is there a difference to what its alleged that CD has done to a jockey hitting a horse in a race?

Its the type of whip and how it is used.

The whip | British Horseracing Authority

www.britishhorseracing.com

 

[Clodagh]

Not that I agree with either but is there a difference to what its alleged that CD has done to a jockey hitting a horse in a race?

Lots. But I do know you are very anti racing.
A whip is padded, in racing, they are only allowed to use it limited times and they must stop if there is no response.
Dressage training you hit the horse with every step. Otherwise why would it flick its leg up to its belly?

 

[Burnerbee]

This is the Dutch article I believe https://www.horses.nl/dressuur/dres...pische-spelen-na-opduiken-video-van-training/

Translation (slightly iffy but you get the idea) of the only bit we don’t know about already;

On behalf of the client, Wensing further adds: “It is inexistent that dressage sport should be accompanied by animal abuse. In the event that top sport can only be performed in such a way that the well-being of the horse is jeopardised, then the top sport can be better abolished. Everyone who deals with horses has their own responsibility for this and this also applies to bystanders who are aware of excesses. Equestrian sport should regulate itself and ensure that there can never again be a discussion about horse welfare in sport. Here lies a very important task for the judges who have lost sight of the core value of dressage for far too long and have overvalued spastic movements of horses.”

I think many of us agree.

Mr Wensing is the lawyer of the person who handed over the video…

“The complaint was lodged last Monday with both the FEI and the British Equestrian Federation at 9 a.m. by Dutch lawyer Stephan Wensing on behalf of a client who wants to remain anonymous.”

 

[Sandstone1]

The person that released it can not have been that concerned about animal welfare if they waited 4 years. More about bringing a individual down than concern for welfare I would say. Certainly do not agree with any form of animal abuse in the name of sport but surely they should have reported this long ago.

 

[AmyMay]

Two equestrian contacts on my Facebook friends list have already posted in support of CDJ, one I thought well of, one I already thought very little of, lord give me strength to unfollow and not rise the the bait
I would block if it wouldn't cause livery yard drama.

So you’re happy to condemn, but not prepared for others to support? (Both views obviously without proof)

 

[Cortez]

Lots. But I do know you are very anti racing.
A whip is padded, in racing, they are only allowed to use it limited times and they must stop if there is no response.
Dressage training you hit the horse with every step. Otherwise why would it flick its leg up to its belly?

That is completely NOT how piaffe is trained and is a gross misrepresentation of how a whip should be used in doing so. The use of padded whips and number of strikes, etc. in racing is a relatively recent thing. In the past it was routine for horses to be hit quite severely in racing.

 

[misst]

That is completely NOT how piaffe is trained and is a gross misrepresentation of how a whip should be used in doing so. The use of padded whips and number of strikes, etc. in racing is a relatively recent thing. In the past it was routine for horses to be hit quite severely in racing.

Cortez can you clarify for me please. Are the legs tapped/hit/whatever the description to train for piaffe? I think somethink similar is done in the Viennese school to teach airs above the ground (or am I completely wrong?)
I am genuinely interested as I had not known this.

 

[Ifmpw]

I think the damage is more to do with the speculation that is obviously running around, with an assumption of if this is done in a private lesson, what does she do at home ?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Full disclaimer, obviously never done a piaffe, just read too much.....
It shouldn't "hit".

If you think of piaffe as a very, very collected trot to the point of being stationary the whip is to keep the energy flowing from the hind end. It can be pointed like a finger but not touch even. Like a substitute leg aid asking for energy or stroking a car's accelerator whilst not letting the energy take the horse forward with the hands (this is assuming working in-hand).

It's not just about getting the horse to lift its legs.

Full disclaimer again, obviously never done a piaffe, just read too much.....

In no other sport is one allowed to hit one's team mates, regardless of the purpose.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

More knowledgeable folk please correct haha and/or direct to good resources for learning.

 

[Ifmpw]

Full disclaimer, obviously never done a piaffe, just read too much.....
It shouldn't "hit".

If you think of piaffe as a very, very collected trot to the point of being stationary the whip is to keep the energy flowing from the hind end. It can be pointed like a finger but not touch even. Like a substitute leg aid asking for energy or stroking a car's accelerator whilst not letting the energy take the horse forward with the hands (this is assuming working in-hand).

It's not just about getting the horse to lift its legs.

Full disclaimer again, obviously never done a piaffe, just read too much.....

In no other sport is one allowed to hit one's team mates, regardless of the purpose.

you can in strictly apparently

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

So you’re happy to condemn, but not prepared for others to support? (Both views obviously without proof)

I have proof that she did something that is worthy of not only a public admission from her PR team of guilt, but a 6 month ban and withdrawal from the Olympics, not ignoring her own statement that she ‘has let us down’, ‘made an error of judgement’ and for which ‘there is no excuse’.

I said in my original post that depending on the severity of what she has done, and the context, different levels of condemnation is appropriate imo, however I am satisfied with the above concrete evidence that she has not done something that is worthy of support and which should be overlooked.

 

[Bellaboo18]

It apparently was reported 4 years ago. This time directly to the FEI

Is this true? I can't find anything to say this is the case.