CDJ withdrawn from paris

[catkin]

I love the idea of a dressage test being there to test how well the horse is in balance and under control when they aren't strapped down and held together.

To be fair, my own horse would not do very well as we are not aligned on how fast working trot and canter should be...

Yes.


Surely horse and rider being able to go from one balance to another as needed is the very essence of training them both individually and together as a partnership - ie 'dressage' in its proper meaning.

 

[sbloom]

Well...... if one wished to influence the type of tack shall we say - the quickest way to get those big saddle blocks to disappear could be to expand the new Swedish rule of more rising trot........
to include a movement or two of stretchy trot ridden in 2-point

It's within the current judging system to penalise for lack of harmony, reduce the rider score - most riders manage rising trot in these monstrosities, the warm up ring is the place to see it. I would prefer for marking like the Classical tests with much bigger % going to the rider and the horse's overall way of going, and harmony, but we can improve things within the current judging regime.

Yes.


Surely horse and rider being able to go from one balance to another as needed is the very essence of training them both individually and together as a partnership - ie 'dressage' in its proper meaning.

Pedant alert - there is only one correct balance and that is the balance for each horse and rider in that particular movement to move as healthily as possible. Similar to me not being so fond of "you should be able to put the head and neck anywhere" - better to work the horse's body so correctly that they are seldom out of balance long enough to move their head far from their own optimal position, though outlines can be longer (where the nose may be a little lower) and shorter depending on the intent of the work.

 

[catkin]

It's within the current judging system to penalise for lack of harmony, reduce the rider score - most riders manage rising trot in these monstrosities, the warm up ring is the place to see it. I would prefer for marking like the Classical tests with much bigger % going to the rider and the horse's overall way of going, and harmony, but we can improve things within the current judging regime.



Pedant alert - there is only one correct balance and that is the balance for each horse and rider in that particular movement to move as healthily as possible. Similar to me not being so fond of "you should be able to put the head and neck anywhere" - better to work the horse's body so correctly that they are seldom out of balance long enough to move their head far from their own optimal position, though outlines can be longer (where the nose may be a little lower) and shorter depending on the intent of the work.

I was being a little bit flippant about how to get the blocks to vanish almost overnight by putting in marked movements that are almost impossible with them - could work though.

With regard to one correct balance, I think we are talking about the same thing but I didn't use the right words, for example both horse and rider will look different in a longer frame, and you are so right, it should be about the whole body not 'placing the head', And that's why I think it is important for riders to be able to sit in a light seat/2 point to help their horse when needed
(Heck, that's still clear as mud isn't it!)

 

[Burnttoast]

Sign the Petition

Ban knee blocks on saddles during FEI Competitions, used as leverage against the bit.

www.change.org

 

[ester]

I don't think this has been added anywhere yet

Canadians Evi Strasser, Daughter Tanya Strasser-Shostak Suspended by FEI for Alleged Abuse of "Several" Horses - Dressage-News

Canadian dressage riders Evi Strasser and her daughter, Tanya Strasser-Shostak, have been suspended by the FEI--International Equestrian Federation--for alleged abuse of "several" horses

dressage-news.com

 

[shortstuff99]

I don't think this has been added anywhere yet

Canadians Evi Strasser, Daughter Tanya Strasser-Shostak Suspended by FEI for Alleged Abuse of "Several" Horses - Dressage-News

Canadian dressage riders Evi Strasser and her daughter, Tanya Strasser-Shostak, have been suspended by the FEI--International Equestrian Federation--for alleged abuse of "several" horses

dressage-news.com

There was a live stream on DH, supposedly with a former groom, which is what has reignited this. Sounds pretty bad.

 

[ester]

Yes, I was skipping that bit just to minimise her traffic

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes, I was skipping that bit just to minimise her traffic

Sorry

 

[Burnttoast]

https://fb.watch/w4HI4aMhWw

I've never seen so much uncertainty among highly trained horses about which leg goes where as I have in the last few months.

 

[Dave's Mam]

https://fb.watch/w4HI4aMhWw

I've never seen so much uncertainty among highly trained horses about which leg goes where as I have in the last few months.

Bambi springs to mind.

 

[Burnttoast]

Bambi springs to mind.

Too cute to describe this It's presumably cold there, horse must be clipped, sweating profusely, teeth grinding audible over the rather loud music, and constant pressure pressure pressure from a rider who seems robotically oblivious to the meltdown happening under her.

 

[PurpleSpots]

https://fb.watch/w4HI4aMhWw

I've never seen so much uncertainty among highly trained horses about which leg goes where as I have in the last few months.

What I found the most telling was that when the horse bashed the white boards - twice - accidentally but fairly strongly, there was very little reaction. Yet the horse repeatedly boiled over and showed immense stress and attempts at strong evasions during many of the movements, and also on approach to the boards. It just yells 'PRESSURISED TRAINING and expectations thereof' rather than 'innocent situation involving a reactive horse' to me .

 

[Burnttoast]

What I found the most telling was that when the horse bashed the white boards - twice - accidentally but fairly strongly, there was very little reaction. Yet the horse repeatedly boiled over and showed immense stress and attempts at strong evasions during many of the movements, and also on approach to the boards. It just yells 'PRESSURISED TRAINING and expectations thereof' rather than 'innocent situation involving a reactive horse' to me .

Yes that sounds very plausible.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Too cute to describe this It's presumably cold there, horse must be clipped, sweating profusely, teeth grinding audible over the rather loud music, and constant pressure pressure pressure from a rider who seems robotically oblivious to the meltdown happening under her.

Yes, my Bambi comment was referring to the unsteady legs. There's so much more going on, but my brain is still recoilling too much to unpick it all.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Couldn't be bothered to watch to the end as it bores me but the 2 odd minutes was enough, some of those leg movements were hideous almost like the poor thing had broken or dislocated a leg

Stop encouraging the breeding of horses that move like this by marking them down

If this is the way its going I'd happily see a ban

 

[Burnttoast]

Yes, my Bambi comment was referring to the unsteady legs. There's so much more going on, but my brain is still recoilling too much to unpick it all.

That seems like a very rational reaction I have watched it a couple of times because I wasn't sure at first I'd really seen what I'd seen and goodness it's hard on the eyes/heart

 

[shortstuff99]

Is this J vB-W?

 

[Burnttoast]

Couldn't be bothered to watch to the end as it bores me but the 2 odd minutes was enough, some of those leg movements were hideous almost like the poor thing had broken or dislocated a leg

Stop encouraging the breeding of horses that move like this by marking them down

If this is the way its going I'd happily see a ban

Her current trainer (Morten Thomsen) uses a bamboo pole on the legs to get those movements. The breeding doesn't help.

 

[Burnttoast]

Is this J vB-W?

Yes

 

[Dave's Mam]

I've watched with headphones & I can't hear teeth grinding, all I can hear is a cacophony of noise that sounds like fireworks at times & no wonder the horse spooked. I would struggle to function in that. I'm not sure how they could even ride to their music.
Asides from this, surely retire when the horse was clearly struggling with the environment.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Goodness that was hard to watch. I would have retired in the first minute or so. That was like watching a car crash in slow motion.

 

[Red-1]

I couldn't watch it all.

The horse seemed very confused and tense.

 

[sbloom]

These videos of seriously unstable horses make me want to throw up, viscerally. What part of any of this seems like a good way to go, especially with what's happened over the last year? What WILL it take to stop absolute car crashes like this from happening, in public at least? It strikes me as insanely tone deaf for this to have happened, let alone the horse not being retired from the test.

 

[Teaselmeg]

When I first saw that, I wondered if he had weighted shoes like they do on the Tennessee walking horses, as the movement was so extreme.

She did retire later in the test apparently, but not soon enough. I hate to think what might have happened to that poor horse in his next training session

 

[ester]

I heard her click for the piaffe on the last centre line which generated the biggest explosion. Obviously was bubbling over before then but that was such a strong reaction to something I’d consider quite benign.

 

[equinerebel]

I hate that there is no one to advocate for the horse. It just relies on the rider doing the right thing and retiring, which of course, they often don't. In fact, the extremes are too often highly marked. And so the circus goes on ...

 

[Equi]

I don’t know the horse or rider but just my observations, the horse is clearly in an overwhelmed state but to play devils advocate these horses are supercharged with feed/fitness/always being asked to give more give more. Taking out the physicality (hyper mobility etc) it would be somewhat like the racehorses who are flinging themselves about before the race. They’re just wired to the moon and it takes training and exposure to get that to the point of being contained and useful. They need to get out to get that. It’s clearly a training show/test not a massive competition. But perhaps I’m wrong and everyone else is more educated.

 

[ester]

She did retire, but said she’d like to continue the test for the experience

 

[little_critter]

I don’t know the horse or rider but just my observations, the horse is clearly in an overwhelmed state but to play devils advocate these horses are supercharged with feed/fitness/always being asked to give more give more. Taking out the physicality (hyper mobility etc) it would be somewhat like the racehorses who are flinging themselves about before the race. They’re just wired to the moon and it takes training and exposure to get that to the point of being contained and useful. They need to get out to get that. It’s clearly a training show/test not a massive competition. But perhaps I’m wrong and everyone else is more educated.

Interesting that if you watch to the end, when he walks out on a loose rein he looks more relaxed. Still a bit jittery but not the extreme you see when on a contact. I feel that's telling (ie work is scary / overwelming)

 

[Burnttoast]

I don’t know the horse or rider but just my observations, the horse is clearly in an overwhelmed state but to play devils advocate these horses are supercharged with feed/fitness/always being asked to give more give more. Taking out the physicality (hyper mobility etc) it would be somewhat like the racehorses who are flinging themselves about before the race. They’re just wired to the moon and it takes training and exposure to get that to the point of being contained and useful. They need to get out to get that. It’s clearly a training show/test not a massive competition. But perhaps I’m wrong and everyone else is more educated.

This was neither contained nor useful, though. I think when most of us think of experience, we are thinking of doing everything possible to give a horse a good experience and trying to avoid at all costs a bad one, because of the obvious downsides for everyone concerned. This couldn't have been a badder experience for the horse and it was obvious even before she did her first centre line that he was on the point of exploding. If the atmosphere or the venue was making him like this, a half-hour's arena walk on a long rein might have been the way to go. But no. Pile on the pressure, that'll help.