CDJ withdrawn from paris

The argument of comparing pros to amateurs drives me insane. 1. This thread is about CDJ and professionals 2. Just because amateurs have their issues doesn't mean we should ignore or accept the behaviour from professionals.

This sort of attitude is what I see from so many professionals and it's infuriating. Pointing out someone else's wrongs is totally irrelevant to the issue.
 
Of course there are countless everyday rider/owner treating horses in ways that is not acceptable. I’m not sure what vlog LEC is referring to, but plenty of these influencers do get called out. The large girl on the nice dressage horses, for instance.

The fact that so many pros don’t seem to think there was any issue with what CDJ did makes me feel quite sad, but not altogether surprised.
The issue is that it’s the pros that are in the spotlight. They are going to be the ones making or breaking the sport in the eyes of the general public, not the lady down the road who over rugs and and over feeds.

So as much as we need to address welfare across the board, we absolutely must address it at the top when it rears its head.
 
ramsaybailey said:
The argument of comparing pros to amateurs drives me insane. 1. This thread is about CDJ and professionals 2. Just because amateurs have their issues doesn't mean we should ignore or accept the behaviour from professionals.

This sort of attitude is what I see from so many professionals and it's infuriating. Pointing out someone else's wrongs is totally irrelevant to the issue.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's like saying there's no point in going after multi-million pound fraudsters because little Johnny nicks sweets from the corner shop.
 
LEC said:
It’s not an argument about not calling out top riders it’s tarring every pro as bad as someone did. Why pick up on amateurs because they start throwing stones at glass houses when their own homes are built on sand.

The sad part is it will not make any difference. A lot of pros I have spoken to don’t think what Charlotte did was that bad and were expecting it to be far worse. They have just become more paranoid about videoing and how they present themselves. So ultimately all this is fracile. Which is why I get annoyed about people making a fuss about stupid stuff like spurs and biting etc when the underlying culture is the issue. There will be a new generation coming through who will be different in their training and management but it takes time. They also need to win with being kinder and better in their training as ultimately if you don’t win then nothing will change.
Click to expand...
I have got to the point where I wouldn’t send a horse to a pro unless I knew them personally and was close enough to drop in regularly unannounced.
 
shortstuff99 said:
I get your point, and amateur riding does need improvement, but I haven't ever seen deliberate (rather than ignorant) cruelty from amateurs like I have witnessed from pros (including much lauded riders)
Click to expand...


Erm i have, from a 16 yr old girl who beat the poop out of her horse for moving while she was clipping, for not going in the wash box, for any number of things she thought he was doing on purpose.

Then she would threaten anyone who would call her up on it and her nan would make the excuse she was autistic, she had a bad childhood etc......she was asked to leave rhe yard and has been on a number of different ones since.

I have seen a lot of issues from amatures, because they try to copy their 'riding heros' and do not understand the training behind things just lob gadgets on, or stronger bits etc and think it would magically cure their riding....sorry their horses way of going
 
LEC said:
change is coming - Stockholm show had a riders meeting where the rules of welfare were laid out and explained by one of the best sjers in the world. Foreign riders were told what they were allowed and not allowed to do under Swedish rules. In Sweden you are not allowed to take your hand off the reins to smack the horse which is a good rule and then only once.
Click to expand...

No sure if this is new or an amendment, but looks like BS are on it re two hands on reins for whip use on the shoulder:

https://www.britishshowjumping.co.uk/news/Rule-Amendments-for-2025
 
teapot said:
No sure if this is new or an amendment, but looks like BS are on it re two hands on reins for whip use on the shoulder:

https://www.britishshowjumping.co.uk/news/Rule-Amendments-for-2025
Click to expand...
Not as good as the Swedish rules as you can still smack them behind the leg with one hand on the reins so not much different to before just slightly different if using in the shoulder although I can’t recall anyone taking a hand off the reins to smack down the shoulder (unless I’ve led a sheltered life)
 
splashgirl45 said:
Not as good as the Swedish rules as you can still smack them behind the leg with one hand on the reins so not much different to before just slightly different if using in the shoulder although I can’t recall anyone taking a hand off the reins to smack down the shoulder (unless I’ve led a sheltered life)
Click to expand...
Yes, but you can only smack them to get them forwards and not for anything else which is pretty ground breaking. You are not allowed to smack in any way for punishment now. Tbh if you need to use a baton to get them forward then you probably shouldn’t be there. We all have had horses go OMG at a show either looking at something or just not taking you forwards but I don’t think I have ever used a whip and can’t think of anyone that has. Most of my BS friends said they will probably quit riding with a whip which tbh is progress.
 
That was an uncomfortable watch. Early in the film, about 20 secs in, can you see what she's doing with her right hand? I've watched it three times and can't make it out.
 
OMG. I'm in no way expert; have competed up to Advanced, training PSG at home [though my schoolmaster was training me, actually!]. But that was an awful test. No wonder coach Monica Theodorescu was looking thunderous. Just incredibly un-harmonious, among so many other things. [Particularly the canter zig zags, but nearly all of it appears to be a hot mess].

I recall some research a while back on judge's bias? Apparently the more better-known the rider, the more they get either; the benefit of the doubt, or just plain higher marks, and its hard to counteract because its so subliminal. I think the clip above is a pretty good illustration of this in action.
 
I dont know if anyone else is having issues with the text on the original post, but here's the translation

I have observed this rider during several relaxations over the last 4 years. Like many others.
Something has caught my eye lately, and another observer had also noticed it, independently of me, during other relaxations.

In the most recent video of the rider in question, I saw again what would appear to be a sequence of

➡️ signal/signals (small slap of the hand on the saddle pad behind the leg and/or on the neck)-
➡️ reaction delay more or less long -
➡️ behavior (supposedly sought: """activation""" of the hindquarters, of which we can only assume the reinforcement process).

So I re-studied the sequences and I put them end to end, so that you can give me your opinion, because with 2000 pairs of eyes we see more things than with one, and so that you also be careful in the future.

It is difficult to know if this is a signal for the behavior shown by the two horses, or if the rider distracts the spectator's attention by flattering her horse while attacking more or less loudly and more or less frequently with the 'spur.
In any case, I don't think it's a coincidence, and so I'll keep an eye on it in the future.
 
I'm Dun said:
I dont know if anyone else is having issues with the text on the original post, but here's the translation

I have observed this rider during several relaxations over the last 4 years. Like many others.
Something has caught my eye lately, and another observer had also noticed it, independently of me, during other relaxations.

In the most recent video of the rider in question, I saw again what would appear to be a sequence of

➡️ signal/signals (small slap of the hand on the saddle pad behind the leg and/or on the neck)-
➡️ reaction delay more or less long -
➡️ behavior (supposedly sought: """activation""" of the hindquarters, of which we can only assume the reinforcement process).

So I re-studied the sequences and I put them end to end, so that you can give me your opinion, because with 2000 pairs of eyes we see more things than with one, and so that you also be careful in the future.

It is difficult to know if this is a signal for the behavior shown by the two horses, or if the rider distracts the spectator's attention by flattering her horse while attacking more or less loudly and more or less frequently with the 'spur.
In any case, I don't think it's a coincidence, and so I'll keep an eye on it in the future.
Click to expand...
Interesting
 
www.horseandhound.co.uk

British medallist joins top names to ‘review’ dressage and create a future plan - Horse & Hound

Medal-winning British rider Gareth Hughes has been named in a group tasked with reviewing the current state of dressage – and developing an action plan to take it forward. Gareth, who was on the team that won European gold in 2023, and world silver in 2022, with Classic Briolinca, joins others...
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Gareth Hughes is on the FEI dressage review committee but the rest seem to be a lot of the 'usual suspects' that have been complicit in the current state of dressage.

The other possible voice of reason may be the Danish review member, providing she isn't in the Helgstrand camp.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top