Children on yards

[Fred66]

A) because it's in the Highway Code
B) because doing so can prevent the driver from dying

If you choose to have kids , you deal with them. My life doesn't depend on being entertaining to them. I purposefully wouldn't go and livery at a yard with lots of small kids around like at a riding school for this very reason.

It’s in the Highway Code that you must wear light coloured or reflective clothing and that you must be able to control your horse. That if you are unsure how your horse will behave in traffic then you should ride with someone on a horse that is not nervous in traffic. All of this is frequently ignored by horse riders.

As you say if you don’t want to be bothered by children then choose a yard that is adult only.

 

[milliepops]

but even a yard that welcomes children ought to insist on safety and parental control surely.
it's fine saying children are welcome but you can't just ignore them running around fields or playing with dangerous tools etc. Same as needing to control a horse on the road, the parents need to be in control of small children, even on yards where they are permitted.

 

[Equine_Dream]

I think the vast difference is that drivers are required by law to modify their behaviour for the safety of others. It's not a legal requirement to tolerate other people's sprogs.....

Up until recently our yard has always been child free. Unfortunately recently a rather clueless family recently moved to the yard with the anti Christ ahem sorry I meant daughter. She is an utter pain in the arse. She's pretty much left to run riot. I caught her in my clean stable the other day, kicking shavings into my geldings clean water bucket and promptly roared at her to get out. She's left to run around the yard and her parents pay no mind to her climbing on haylage bales or screeching around the horses. It's an accident waiting to happen.

I have no issue with well behaved children on yards. I don't think livery yards or working farms are the place to allow children to run around unsupervised by their parents. I think if parents choose to bring their little darlings to such places, it's THEIR job to supervise them, not anyone else's.

 

[Fred66]

but even a yard that welcomes children ought to insist on safety and parental control surely.
it's fine saying children are welcome but you can't just ignore them running around fields or playing with dangerous tools etc. Same as needing to control a horse on the road, the parents need to be in control of small children, even on yards where they are permitted.

I would agree that children should be taught the dangers that horses represent and how to behave around them, and have boundaries set. But equally children learn through experience and supervision shouldn’t involve a long list of don’ts. Asking questions and watching others isn’t exactly running riot.

 

[scats]

I have no problem bringing a baby with me and letting it nap in a pram close to or in the corner of the arena while I ride.

But leaving it to hack out?!

Shocking isn’t it. Being the age I was, I remember thinking it was bad, but I probably didn’t realise quite how bad. When I look back now, I remember the whole thing with absolute horror

 

[Fred66]

I think the vast difference is that drivers are required by law to modify their behaviour for the safety of others. It's not a legal requirement to tolerate other people's sprogs.....

The Highway Code is a guide not the law. Some elements of it are backed by the law and these are elements where the rule says must / must not. The element regarding passing horses slow and wide does not include this wording and therefore is good practice not law.

 

[Equine_Dream]

The Highway Code is a guide not the law. Some elements of it are backed by the law and these are elements where the rule says must / must not. The element regarding passing horses slow and wide does not include this wording and therefore is good practice not law.

And yet people can still be held legally accountable for failing to do so i.e. dangerous driving, driving without due care and attention etc....

 

[milliepops]

I would agree that children should be taught the dangers that horses represent and how to behave around them, and have boundaries set. But equally children learn through experience and supervision shouldn’t involve a long list of don’ts. Asking questions and watching others isn’t exactly running riot.

I was taught a long list of don'ts for my own safety
don't touch the hob
don't run into the road
don't frighten the horses.

that's not the kind of experience that you need to learn from, if you get kicked in the head the opportunity to learn anything at all may well be taken from you.

 

[sportsmansB]

I would agree that children should be taught the dangers that horses represent and how to behave around them, and have boundaries set. But equally children learn through experience and supervision shouldn’t involve a long list of don’ts. Asking questions and watching others isn’t exactly running riot.

But surely the point of this thread is that the supervision is the parents job, not the other people trying to go about their own business on the yard?

I don't really like kids except my nephews and best friends kids (and even then I can still see what absolute horrors they can be)
I also see a lot of danger around horses that some people maybe don't appreciate until they have witnessed the resulting accidents

If I was on a yard with children who were not adequately supervised by their parents I would immediately go to the YO / YM and flag it up.
I doin't want my horse to be the one responsible for kicking a kid when they kicked a football at him or cycled up behind him

If I have to tell them not to do things to keep them safe I will, as their learning is NOT MY PROBLEM since they are someone elses kids. I'd rather not have to, as I'd prefer they were not anywhere near me or my horse unsupervised.

 

[Flicker]

Fred66, I do agree with your comments that we need to look out for each other and contribute to a community. Especially in equestrian circles, which are not always known for being welcoming and inclusive.

However, I‘m not sure that the comparison you draw with drivers being required to modify their behaviour vs small modifications in our behaviour to accommodate the behaviour and care of others’ children is necessarily a helpful one.

Let’s just take this from a perspective of safeguarding and child safety...

In the first instance, drivers on the road have passed a series of examinations that certify that they possess the required skills and knowledge to command a vehicle on the road. As I’ve said before on this thread, I have grave reservations about the alacrity with which parents seem to palm their children off into the care of others. What do they know about these people, how are they qualified to look after a child if anything goes wrong? Well meaning help can become a disaster very quickly.

Drivers are asked to modify their behaviour on the road to maintain safety and mitigate risk for all road users. Asking someone unqualified and unknown to modify their behaviour to keep an eye on a child that they don’t know increases risk for all concerned.

Also, and I accept that this may be part of a larger argument and am happy to take it elsewhere onto a separate thread, but as a child free woman I am mindful that it always seems to be me having to modify my behaviour to make things easier for people who have children. For the most part, I am happy to do this but I do expect to have at least the agency for it to be something that I freely choose to do rather than something that is expected of me, and that I am made to feel guilty for if I don’t. I already defer to my colleagues with children over their annual leave requirements. I am very happy to cover their work when they are juggling childcare and WFH duties. I step in for the less family friendly hours if we have a big piece of work to do in the team and comfortably take weekend days when we have to shift into 5 out of 7 working. I will absolutely stand up to support breast feeding, flexible working, proper maternity leave, equalities legislation for pregnant women and parents. But please don’t make me feel like I’m somehow letting society down when my only request is to have the peace and quiet to enjoy my hobby, for which I pay a substantial sum of money and which I never seem to have quite enough time to squeeze in between all the other ways I am trying to do my bit.

 

[fredflop]

My current yard has no children... it’s great. I don’t have to worry about someone’s little “darling” getting to close to my horse, then getting their head kicked in.

one previous yard was right next to a country lane, where all and sundry walked up and down. Horses and cattle the length of the road, about two miles. Big tall hedges so you couldn’t see what was the other side. The amount of children that ran up and down the road screaming was unbelievable. Then there was one family where the children not only ran around and screamed they blew on whistles all the time they were out. I was very lucky I always managed to avoid riding when these horrors were about. When I told my mum (we are from a farming background) she said I would never have behaved like that in the first place. If I’d even attempted it I’d have been given a thrashing for potentially upsetting livestock and putting people in danger

 

[sportsmansB]

Also, and I accept that this may be part of a larger argument and am happy to take it elsewhere onto a separate thread, but as a child free woman I am mindful that it always seems to be me having to modify my behaviour to make things easier for people who have children. For the most part, I am happy to do this but I do expect to have at least the agency for it to be something that I freely choose to do rather than something that is expected of me, and that I am made to feel guilty for if I don’t. I already defer to my colleagues with children over their annual leave requirements. I am very happy to cover their work when they are juggling childcare and WFH duties. I step in for the less family friendly hours if we have a big piece of work to do in the team and comfortably take weekend days when we have to shift into 5 out of 7 working. I will absolutely stand up to support breast feeding, flexible working, proper maternity leave, equalities legislation for pregnant women and parents. But please don’t make me feel like I’m somehow letting society down when my only request is to have the peace and quiet to enjoy my hobby, for which I pay a substantial sum of money and which I never seem to have quite enough time to squeeze in between all the other ways I am trying to do my bit.

THIS!! A MILLION TIMES THIS!!
laced with a little bit of 'oh sure its OK for you, you only have yourself to look after' comments from the people who CHOSE to have those children and give up time / money / holidays / sleep as a result

 

[Fred66]

Flicker - decided not to quote as it was very long.

I am not suggesting anyone should childmind or that it is anyone’s direct responsibility other than the parent. Or that anyone should change their behaviour. I have said that if you aren’t happy having children on a yard at all then find a child free yard and if you don’t want them bothering you then set the boundaries - inform the children or parents that you don’t want them around you or your horse.

If you choose not to find a child free yard then you have to accept they may be about and if the children “misbehave” in your eyes then you find a way to modify their behaviour- whether this is interacting directly with the children, speaking to the parents or asking the YO to intervene.

I have suggested it might be nice to offer to watch them for short periods to enable the parent to ride uninterrupted but not that they should do this.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Also, and I accept that this may be part of a larger argument and am happy to take it elsewhere onto a separate thread, but as a child free woman I am mindful that it always seems to be me having to modify my behaviour to make things easier for people who have children. For the most part, I am happy to do this but I do expect to have at least the agency for it to be something that I freely choose to do rather than something that is expected of me, and that I am made to feel guilty for if I don’t. I already defer to my colleagues with children over their annual leave requirements. I am very happy to cover their work when they are juggling childcare and WFH duties. I step in for the less family friendly hours if we have a big piece of work to do in the team and comfortably take weekend days when we have to shift into 5 out of 7 working. I will absolutely stand up to support breast feeding, flexible working, proper maternity leave, equalities legislation for pregnant women and parents. But please don’t make me feel like I’m somehow letting society down when my only request is to have the peace and quiet to enjoy my hobby, for which I pay a substantial sum of money and which I never seem to have quite enough time to squeeze in between all the other ways I am trying to do my bit.

This in spades!! I also find as a childless woman I'm required far more by society to justify why I have chosen NOT to have children, as opposed to women who have chosen to have them...

 

[Littlebear]

This in spades!! I also find as a childless woman I'm required far more by society to justify why I have chosen NOT to have children, as opposed to women who have chosen to have them...

Oh yes! I didn't have mine until a bit later in life and this drove me nuts. I am very upfront when I hear these conversations now, kids are not the be all and end all of everyone's world, plus when young girls say to me they can't wait to have them I am sure to be very honest about the realities of it!

Even when you have had one, you constantly get - when is your second, don't they need company, after a horrendous pregnancy and birth people are quickly shut straight down on that question!

Still, reading this thread as a mum now who does on occasion take their kid to the yard, it feels judgemental in the other direction. Not all women want kids and that's fine, some people have kids and don't take them around dumping them on random liveries and allow them to create havoc everywhere they go.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Still, reading this thread as a mum now who does on occasion take their kid to the yard, it feels judgemental in the other direction. Not all women want kids and that's fine, some people have kids and don't take them around dumping them on random liveries and allow them to create havoc everywhere they go.

Completely agree. There are some lovely well mannered children with very responsible parents. I don't think anyone would have any issues with those children on yards

 

[Sossigpoker]

I think the vast difference is that drivers are required by law to modify their behaviour for the safety of others. It's not a legal requirement to tolerate other people's sprogs.....

Up until recently our yard has always been child free. Unfortunately recently a rather clueless family recently moved to the yard with the anti Christ ahem sorry I meant daughter. She is an utter pain in the arse. She's pretty much left to run riot. I caught her in my clean stable the other day, kicking shavings into my geldings clean water bucket and promptly roared at her to get out. She's left to run around the yard and her parents pay no mind to her climbing on haylage bales or screeching around the horses. It's an accident waiting to happen.

I have no issue with well behaved children on yards. I don't think livery yards or working farms are the place to allow children to run around unsupervised by their parents. I think if parents choose to bring their little darlings to such places, it's THEIR job to supervise them, not anyone else's.

Jesus I'd probably get arrested for what I'd do if I found said Satan...I mean child I my stable. Only half joking!

 

[bluehorse]

If the OP idea of behaviour is different to the parents then it’s a less confrontational way of potentially modifying the childrens behaviour.
The main aim was to give OP a route to say she rarely has time for them “assisting” and would prefer them to stay out of her way without actually confronting the parents. It’s a small yard and conflict is likely to lead to an uncomfortable environment.

And being speechless at a relatively innocuous suggestion is rather an extreme reaction.

Fair enough if you think it was an over-reaction, but it was an honest reaction. Perhaps astonished would have been a better choice of word. As has been said previously on this post why on earth should people have to invest their own time in becoming responsible for the activities and behaviour of other people’s children? It’s ridiculous! Incidentally I have no objection to well behaved, supervised children on the yard, I even rode out with one the other day, without a parent present. There doesn’t need to be conflict over this, though as you recognise finding the right way of approaching it isn’t going to be easy. But by following your suggestion isn’t OP having to compromise her own wishes by doing the exact thing she’s trying to avoid?

 

[Mule]

3 and 6 are very young. I'd be worried about them getting injured

 

[Keira 8888]

Fair enough if you think it was an over-reaction, but it was an honest reaction. Perhaps astonished would have been a better choice of word. As has been said previously on this post why on earth should people have to invest their own time in becoming responsible for the activities and behaviour of other people’s children? It’s ridiculous! Incidentally I have no objection to well behaved, supervised children on the yard, I even rode out with one the other day, without a parent present. There doesn’t need to be conflict over this, though as you recognise finding the right way of approaching it isn’t going to be easy. But by following your suggestion isn’t OP having to compromise her own wishes by doing the exact thing she’s trying to avoid?

I agree totally with this. If the parent wants to enjoy a nice hack out - they should arrange for husband/wife/aunt/uncle/friend/family friend to step in and offer child support.
If this is not possible - then no hack! It is not appropriate for a virtual stranger to a) be left in charge of small children or b) be expected to do so!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

As you say if you don’t want to be bothered by children then choose a yard that is adult only.

But none of the yards I’ve been on have advertised themselves as such. I would far prefer adults only. I used to go mad at kids having ‘sword fights’ with dressage whips outside my box, frightening the crap out of my headshy horse or deliberately screaming as I went past, post accident and almost sh!thing myself in case he spooked and I couldn’t skip out of the way fast enough.

I mostly ignore the one child on my yard but I’ve spoken to the owner today about him wandering around, in everyone’s cubby, going from stable to stable. We have strangles and all the adults are carefully avoiding each other’s areas and disinfecting. I don’t think the very young child understands this or adheres to the rules.

 

[Winters100]

It just seems to me that there should be a level of reasonableness on all sides.

No one should feel pushed into being an unpaid child minder, or indeed to tolerate rude and disrespectful children, but equally children should not be glared at just for existing and being in a place which they are permitted to be in.

Yards are not playgrounds, young children need to be closely supervised and older children need to understand how to behave around animals. I agree with OP that 3 and 6 is far too young to be 'off the leash'. Likewise if you choose to be on a yard that allows children you can expect that there will be more noise and activity than on an adults only yard. On our yard it works perfectly well in that there is a lot of space and if the children want to run, shout or have a water fight they can do so well away from the horses and the stable area. Some people like this and some not, but bottom line is that it is a sought after yard with excellent facilities and a waiting list, and the owner allows it. Interestingly the 4 pros on the yard are the most tolerant of noise and activity around their horses.

It does not need to come down to a choice between allowing children to run riot or expecting them to sit in silence. To me there is a middle ground of accepting that we all share the space and that everyone has to try to accommodate one another.

 

[Hero**]

Based on this thread I would say there is definitely a market for yards to specifically advertise as child friendly /adult only and stick with that. People have different needs, wants and expectations and if it is advertised in advance then you can make an informed choice whether it's the yard for you, or not.

 

[Abi90]

I don’t think adults only yards exist? I’ve certainly never seen one advertised as such.

All the children on my yard are incredibly well behaved and actually delightful but then they do belong to the YO who has instilled in them discipline around horses and people. Even then one of her opening remarks was “do not feel obliged to play with my children, you can tell them to go away if they are annoying you”.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

.

As you say if you don’t want to be bothered by children then choose a yard that is adult only.

That is as long as the ratio does not change and new livery owners come in with kids, you would be continuously moving yard's when children move in. I also don't like kids which is why I chose not to have them, but the yard here used to be chid free all adults for years *bliss* , now it is full of them

 

[Red-1]

I don’t think adults only yards exist? I’ve certainly never seen one advertised as such.

If I saw an advert for an 'adults only' yard, I would wonder what on earth I was expected to witness/participate in LOL.

 

[fredflop]

My current yard is no children and no dogs. Perfect.

 

[ycbm]

.

 

[ycbm]

As you say if you don’t want to be bothered by children then choose a yard that is adult only.

It's hard enough finding a good yard that suits your horse without people who don't want parents to expect them to look after their children for them being restricted to one.
.

 

[jnb]

Also, and I accept that this may be part of a larger argument and am happy to take it elsewhere onto a separate thread, but as a child free woman I am mindful that it always seems to be me having to modify my behaviour to make things easier for people who have children. For the most part, I am happy to do this but I do expect to have at least the agency for it to be something that I freely choose to do rather than something that is expected of me, and that I am made to feel guilty for if I don’t. I already defer to my colleagues with children over their annual leave requirements. I am very happy to cover their work when they are juggling childcare and WFH duties. I step in for the less family friendly hours if we have a big piece of work to do in the team and comfortably take weekend days when we have to shift into 5 out of 7 working. I will absolutely stand up to support breast feeding, flexible working, proper maternity leave, equalities legislation for pregnant women and parents. But please don’t make me feel like I’m somehow letting society down when my only request is to have the peace and quiet to enjoy my hobby, for which I pay a substantial sum of money and which I never seem to have quite enough time to squeeze in between all the other ways I am trying to do my bit.

THIS!! A MILLION TIMES THIS!!
laced with a little bit of 'oh sure its OK for you, you only have yourself to look after' comments from the people who CHOSE to have those children and give up time / money / holidays / sleep as a result

This in spades!! I also find as a childless woman I'm required far more by society to justify why I have chosen NOT to have children, as opposed to women who have chosen to have them...

THIS a million times, I have no kids and have worked and been on call for 17 or 19 Christmas periods in my current job, initially because I didn't mind, then "oh, you've got no kids, you won't mind" - 2 years ago, myself and another colleague who'd also been similarly dumped on (because, no kids) said NO, we were not happy being dumped on any longer - we would take our turn (1 in 4 on a rota basis) doing Christmas, but this year, we didn't want to do it.

Cue World War IV, guilt trips, "Wouldn't we just think of the children" promises of the moon on a stick if we would just do this year (2019) and a new rota for 2020.
Guess what happened?
Yes - I got lumbered again in 2020 as my manager "forgot" to do anything about it till November & I got called out at 2pm on Christmas Day when I was at my mums for dinner first time I'd been in her house since February!

Anyway.......having kids is not carte blanche to do whatever TF you like and certainly don't dump your kids on me if you want them to be looked after, I don't know how & have no interest in doing so (obviously in a life or death situation, then OK but not just because you fancy a child free hack or your nails doing!)

Yards have a DUTY OF CARE whether they like it or not so should either enforce supervision of anyone under 14 (or whatever the legal limit is, I don't know) or be open to being sued in the event of an accident - also unsupervised children surely the parents are liable if they cause injury to horse or rider through the parent's lack of supervision?
I'm sure any yard's insurance company would take a dim view if kids were running riot causing their clients to be open to suing.