Clifton Promise tests + for banned substance post Burghley

[Que Sera]

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2013/10/15/w...horse-positive-banned-substance#axzz2hm75Thr4

Sorry if already posted but can't see another thread yet.

 

[Thistle]

Awaiting results of B test. Apparently Reserpin can give false positives. Hope that is the case!

 

[Que Sera]

B test also being done at a different lab. Fingers crossed!

 

[Puppy]

I'm gobsmacked by this news. I really hope the B test comes back clear.

 

[Fanatical]

I very much hope that the B sample is negative, or if it is positive that it is proved that it is linked to some form of legal supplement.

I found the following...

'Reserpine is used as a long-acting tranquilizer in horses. It is used to sedate excitable or difficult horses that are on enforced rest. It sometimes is used illicitly to sedate show horses, sale horses or in other circumstances where a "quieter" horse might be desired. Until relatively recently, reserpine was difficult to test for, but there are now sensitive and accurate tests. Blood testing for reserpine use can be complicated by related herbs and plants found in supplements, pastures and hay, which also can cause a positive drug test'

 

[swellhillcottage]

Crikey

 

[Que Sera]

ETS x-posted with Fanatical!

 

[scheherazade]

I would be absolutely amazed if anything had made it round Burghley on Reserpin... Fingers crossed for the B test

 

[JFTDWS]

I really hope the B test comes back clear.

Likewise.

 

[Kiribati_uk]

Its the exact same drug that caused Cian oconnor to loose his gold medal at the Athens(?) Olympics,so horse are totally able to function on it!!!!!! Truly hope its a mistake!! Also hope the B sampledoesnt get stolen like Cisns did!!!!!! It can stay in horses system for about 45days......Its also has a use to help prevent horses bursting(No I don't use it but I listen lots!!)

 

[TarrSteps]

I would be absolutely amazed if anything had made it round Burghleioy on Reserpin... Fingers crossed for the B test

Why's that then?

The drug used to be used to produce an animal model of depression for scientific study and works very differently than the short acting drugs like ace that people are more familiar with. You wouldn't necessarily know to look at the horse.

 

[LaurenEmily]

Apparently, Clifton Pinot, ridden by Kevin Mcnab is on the pending list, as also tested positive at burghley? Hopefully it's just a coincidence and unrelated

 

[Dab]

Why's that then?

The drug used to be used to produce an animal model of depression for scientific study and works very differently than the short acting drugs like ace that people are more familiar with. You wouldn't necessarily know to look at the horse.

So does that mean the horse would be able to function normally and its senses would not be dulled? What would be the purpose of using such a drug in this case? When i read that it was a tranquilizer I could not understand why somebody would want to ride a horse around a 4* course on a dopped horse.

 

[scheherazade]

So does that mean the horse would be able to function normally and its senses would not be dulled? What would be the purpose of using such a drug in this case? When i read that it was a tranquilizer I could not understand why somebody would want to ride a horse around a 4* course on a dopped horse.

That was what I meant when I made my original comment. I did not think that any horse would be able to get round a tough 4* track on tranquilisers, I don't actually know anything about that drug in particular. Sorry for being unclear.

 

[Gamebird]

So does that mean the horse would be able to function normally and its senses would not be dulled? What would be the purpose of using such a drug in this case? When i read that it was a tranquilizer I could not understand why somebody would want to ride a horse around a 4* course on a dopped horse.

We're not necessarily talking therapeutic values, could have been given over a month previously and still be traceable in the blood.

Also (not suggesting this is the case but just to illustrate possible scenarios) I believe the horse was tested post SJing so there might be a case where you had a horse which wasn't medicated for the XC but was for the SJ.

 

[popsdosh]

Its the exact same drug that caused Cian oconnor to loose his gold medal at the Athens(?) Olympics,so horse are totally able to function on it!!!!!! Truly hope its a mistake!! Also hope the B sampledoesnt get stolen like Cisns did!!!!!! It can stay in horses system for about 45days......Its also has a use to help prevent horses bursting(No I don't use it but I listen lots!!)

It can be used to drop blood pressure in horses and help prevent a bleed. Was he not stopped CC for blood on both horses? maybe just a coincidence.I would not hold out much hope for him as it would be highly unusual for the B sample to contradict the A if there was much doubt you would not have had it made public so quick.

 

[TarrSteps]

Obviously it modifies behaviour - that's the point! But if depressive drugs make individuals incompetent then how come so many people like 'a little nip' before hunting? Or xc for that matter. All I'm saying is the horse would not be obviously impaired and clearly horses can jump successfully around big tracks on it as people have been done for it in the past.

I have no opinion on this case as there is no case yet! But to say it's impossible simply because the horse jumped around is not accurate.

 

[maxine1985]

It can be used to drop blood pressure in horses and help prevent a bleed. Was he not stopped CC for blood on both horses? maybe just a coincidence.I would not hold out much hope for him as it would be highly unusual for the B sample to contradict the A if there was much doubt you would not have had it made public so quick.

Was thinking the same, really hope it is a coincidence though! He rode a fantastic round at Burghley!

 

[TarrSteps]

And yes, as pointed out, it could have been given a month ago or for another reason but that will make no difference, banned is banned.

 

[hcm88]

It can be used to drop blood pressure in horses and help prevent a bleed. Was he not stopped CC for blood on both horses? maybe just a coincidence.I would not hold out much hope for him as it would be highly unusual for the B sample to contradict the A if there was much doubt you would not have had it made public so quick.

Also thought this.

Clifton Pinot has also tested positive. Really hope there is a simple explanation as I'd hate to think Jock and Promise don't deserve their win

 

[Tempi]

Seems strange that two horses from the same yard (?) have tested positive for the same substance

 

[kerilli]

Seems strange that two horses from the same yard (?) have tested positive for the same substance

If it's accidental contamination then it makes absolutely perfect sense. Best case scenario as I see it now is that they test all horses on the yard and more show up positive, and they can trace the source of accidental contamination from a legume etc which causes a false positive.
If not... very bad times for the sport.

 

[Pigeon]

Unless the results are being confounded by some herb they are both being fed in a supplement or that is growing in their pastures. I don't want to believe it's cheating, so holding onto that hope for the time-being!

 

[Mickyjoe]

It would surely have to be a supplement. According to google (which of course, is never wrong! ), the herb only grows in parts of Africa and India.

 

[blackhor2e]

I do really hope the 2nd test exonerates them, fingers crossed

 

[merlinsquest]

Bad times, I don't think both horses are on the same yard but KmcN trains JP

 

[Mickyjoe]

Bad times, I don't think both horses are on the same yard but KmcN trains JP

Yes it looks like one is based in Berkshire and the other in Surrey.

 

[Polos Mum]

I do really hope the 2nd test exonerates them, fingers crossed

Would they really have gone public with the results this long after the even if there was a chance it was an error/ testing problem? If he is exonerated he'll be wanting a BIG public apology!

If it is accidental the it's still poor practice for a yard producing horses at that level. Everyone knows the rules and I'd have thought all suppliments/ meds etc would all be tripple checked for banned substances before they are even brought onto a yard to avoid these kind of problems.

 

[Fanatical]

Would they really have gone public with the results this long after the even if there was a chance it was an error/ testing problem? If he is exonerated he'll be wanting a BIG public apology!

If it is accidental the it's still poor practice for a yard producing horses at that level. Everyone knows the rules and I'd have thought all suppliments/ meds etc would all be tripple checked for banned substances before they are even brought onto a yard to avoid these kind of problems.

I think it may be very difficult to even know it exists in some cases if the following statement is correct...

'Until relatively recently, reserpine was difficult to test for, but there are now sensitive and accurate tests. Blood testing for reserpine use can be complicated by related herbs and plants found in supplements, pastures and hay, which also can cause a positive drug test' '

I can't imagine that sample B will come back any different to sample A, I think it will all come down to the reasons behind how it has happened.

Unfortunately that will mean that jock will lose his Burghley title and the grand slam will be off! Bad times for the sport. :-(

 

[JFTDWS]

I guess the best outcome is that it's a false positive on account of dietary contamination with one of these "related herbs". I really wouldn't like to believe it's intentional.