Community Access to Private arenas?

[cauda equina]

I wonder what is meant by 'community access points', 30 of which were suggested by the environmentalists
If that's a day when the arena would be open to others I can't see 30 a year being enough for someone who would otherwise look at building their own arena; surely they would want to be using it more than every 10 or so days

Before the planners get stroppy about private arena builds perhaps they should address the proportion of affordable housing that actually gets built in new developments

 

[FestiveFuzz]

@palo1 you keep saying they wouldn’t be strangers using it but we live quite rurally and after a year of living here I’d say we know only a small number of the local community. Admittedly a lot of that is down to covid, but I think it’s disingenuous to label as a community resource if what you actually mean is the owner allowing friends to use it.

Also it’s fine to say the PP would state a low minimum number of uses to qualify but I’m sure as anyone who has ever let someone borrow their arena can attest to, you can be near certain if you allow them to use it once they’ll want it to be a more regular occurrence than once a month.

All that said, I do like the idea of a community arena (just not if it’s someone’s private arena), but in reality I think it’d sadly be a financial and logistical nightmare.

 

[Reacher]

I would possibly be one of those people. There's loading and uploading your equipment into the trailer, driving, and nearly an hour out of your day, just driving. For a person like me who is a bit crunched with time and/or works full time, an arena hire becomes an event in itself. Plus, if unorganized, there arenas get crowded, and sometimes even limits liveries access to it, which is a bit unfair, when it works that way.

No commute and freedom to ride as you please, when you please, and with whom you please is so valuable to some.

Oh yes I quite understand why - I wasn’t criticising people for doing so, and if I was able to have my own arena, I probably would!

 

[Velcrobum]

I have my own arena my planning permission was very very specific - for use by the residents of the property, likewise my small barn stabling. My arena cannot be seen from outside the property so no one can say it is an eyesore.

 

[teapot]

Oh no, no no no. An arena is not the same as putting in a playground.

Can just see my local council funding and managing the following:

- Surface maintenance
- Fencing maintenance
- Security
- Booking systems
- Insurance and possible first aid provision
- Muck removal (and difficulties with people using it to exercise dogs)
- Checking users are insured
- Parking
- People rocking up without booking
- Management in bad weather.
- Light pollution from floodlights if an outdoor
- Loos
- Access

etc etc.

Arena hire is bad enough to manage in centres frankly, let alone done by people who probably wouldn't have a clue. It took me half an hour to add a horse to a licence the other day, and that included a five min chat over how nice his name was ffs. With regards to lumps of black surface ruining the views, think you'll find in some areas surface colour is stipulated for new builds.

 

[palo1]

I think all the points about access and management are really valid but not something that a local environmental group might understand. I guess it is interesting that they have even brought this up for discussion in fact. I tend to use an arena at a local livery yard/EC or make do with what I have at home so it's not actually a big issue for me. I suspect that one lot of neighbours that have created a 60 x 40 on really old meadow and have also put in 1/4 mile of concrete road across their land so that they can more easily drive round rather than walk/use a quad etc as well as 2 other new arenas has caused a degree of consternation in what is a very 'traditional' and rural community. Another local has an arena built in such a place (it's an old one) that there is real danger of the whole thing subsiding into a river. Their access is a nightmare and there is no way that they could cope with visitors, nor would they want to. The big new arena is accompanied by a couple of other things that might be making folk uncomfortable too. For me, here, the initial suggestion of some degree of access didn't seem unreasonable or entirely unworkable but for most people who have posted it is clearly a dire idea - thanks for those posts as it does mean that when the subject comes up again (if it does) I have more to add to that! The couple of friends I have discussed this with have said that they would rather no arena than one they would have to provide some access to as well!

 

[FestiveG]

What happens if someone wishes to convert grazing to garden? Would they be expected to allow public use of it?

 

[SEL]

@palo1 the ones you've described above sound like poor planning decisions tbh. I would probably get permission to build one round the back or to the side of my existing buildings, but not at the far end of the fields nor down by the stream. So all of the "built environment" would be together leaving the rest of my acreage as grazing / mud.

I'm struggling to think of any around me that are visible from the road. Google earth when checking out bridlepaths was eye opening there's so many hidden away. I feel like the poor relation riding in my fields!

 

[PapaverFollis]

I live near the one in Halkirk. It is popular, well used and well looked after. There is strong sense of community up here and lots of horses. Everyone knows everyone else... Many people still have private arenas as well.

If we were going to go to the expense of putting an arena in I would not want to have other people able to use it! There's three private arenas within hacking distance here. There is no way on this planet I would be cheeky enough to ask if I could use one ?

Edit, actually 4. Found a really nice big one on Google maps, not at all visible from the road!

 

[palo1]

@palo1 the ones you've described above sound like poor planning decisions tbh. I would probably get permission to build one round the back or to the side of my existing buildings, but not at the far end of the fields nor down by the stream. So all of the "built environment" would be together leaving the rest of my acreage as grazing / mud.

I'm struggling to think of any around me that are visible from the road. Google earth when checking out bridlepaths was eye opening there's so many hidden away. I feel like the poor relation riding in my fields!

I think you are right @SEL - a number of local arenas (but not all) are causing discussion because of the planning issues although the old one that is about to fall in the river is over 20 years old and I am not sure if it EVER had planning tbh!! The point about arenas being fairly easy to return to grazing/grassed over is a good one too though I would hope that planners don't approve plastic surfaces these days. No idea what would be more sustainable but plastic granules seems a bad thing to me...

 

[Mero]

I did feel a bit (very) sad when i gave up some of my grassland for an arena. It has balanced out a little bit by the fact I use it as all weather turnout, which keeps my remaining grassland in better condition as it’s not overgrazed, muddy or poached. I have excellent biodiversity in terms of vegetation, insects, and it supports a pair of barn owls, a pair of tawny owls (or one that gets around a lot!), red kites, buzzards, foxes. I don’t know what the difference would be if my horses were out churning the place up.

I completely agree that making it a condition in of planning would be a no-go. Even just the bio security aspect. My guys use it as a field so would have to give that up as well.

 

[twiggy2]

If insurance was not an issue or toilets etc etc or having to sort how to declare income from it all then, renting out an arena for 30 private lessons a year would not bother me, I think in most areas you could find an instructor you trust to use your manege to gives lessons once a week.

 

[palo1]

If insurance was not an issue or toilets etc etc or having to sort how to declare income from it all then, renting out an arena for 30 private lessons a year would not bother me, I think in most areas you could find an instructor you trust to use your manege to gives lessons once a week.

Yes, I kind of thought that too though for some the access issues would be a pain. Most people are really not up for it at all though!!

 

[Keith_Beef]

There's what I have heard called "the natural arena" near to where I live... it's a roughly circular patch of sand in the forest.

Let's see if this link to Google Maps works.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Re the antipathy to arenas with a sand and rubber surface, like mine. Incidentally, planning was given for it no problem.

The rubber is chopped up old car tyres, so its reuse as an arena surface is the recycling of a waste product - a good thing.

No one can see my arena surface unless they are standing on our land, and even then only from a very small part of it, so it impacts on no one's view apart from ours. The arena perimeter post and rail fencing can be seen, but not even a glimpse of the surface.

 

[tristar]

someone i knew from yorkshire i think, years ago said they had an arena for public use

we should have arenas for use constructed by the council like parks playgrounds footie pitches, where there is a need to encourage equestrianism and keep horses off the roads, and encourage proper training of horses and ponies,

i am not precious in an elite kind of way, people need somewhere to ride and train for all the shows these days, its only common sense, at the end of the day its just a surface that is very easily constructed and easy to maintain

 

[Patterdale]

As an aside, why are environmental campaigners so anti everything that existed in the countryside before they moved in? Farming, horses…everything.

OP has admitted that people don’t like the perceived ‘entitlement’ of arena owners and elitism. That is a very dangerous slippery slope in my opinion.

Just because someone has something you don’t, does NOT mean you are morally entitled to a go on/in it.

 

[ycbm]

There used to be a community arena in the Saddleworth area, I don't know if there still is.

I could never understand how it worked, and always assumed that 20 ponies would turn up at the same time every Satursay.
.

 

[ycbm]

someone i knew from yorkshire i think, years ago said they had an arena for public use

we should have arenas for use constructed by the council like parks playgrounds footie pitches, where there is a need to encourage equestrianism and keep horses off the roads, and encourage proper training of horses and ponies,

i am not precious in an elite kind of way, people need somewhere to ride and train for all the shows these days, its only common sense, at the end of the day its just a surface that is very easily constructed and easy to maintain

We're having trouble having rubbish collected and roads gritted. Not to mention home care for people who need it, pothole repair, etc.

I don't think it should be up to ratepayers to finance arenas for an expensive sport. They are already provided commercially by riding centres.
.

 

[J&S]

"The Club is a constituent member of the King George V Playing Fields Trust on the outskirts of Moretonhampstead. We have our own riding arena situated on land owned by this trust.

This arena is available for use by our members, please book your slot at......."


My friend went to a dressage competition run by a local riding club in Devon. The venue was in a local sports facility. I have copied and pasted a short piece about this arena.......... this is a better idea don't you think than using private facilities?

 

[ycbm]

There's a community arena in Halkirk in the North of Scotland. It was funded entirely by hard working volunteers in the early 1980s. It's really popular. As you can imagine, riding in the winter in the Highlands requires fairly hard core dedication!

https://hallbookingonline.com/cira/ .

I don't see the difference between using that and using one of a number of indoor and outdoor arenas that are hireable locally around here.

 

[Hallo2012]

Yes, I kind of thought that too though for some the access issues would be a pain. Most people are really not up for it at all though!!

just as an example access to my drive is impossible in anything over 3.5 ton and tricky in a trailer.

the majority of people cannot reverse so there go my gate posts and perfect lawn

with more than my own lorry parked in my drive i cannot get my own cars out

i have 2 stallions on site which are either in fields directly next to the arena or in stables that you have to walk past closely to access the arena

i cannot be the only person who would find this impossibly invasive and unsafe.

in fact i cannot think of one single private yard i teach at that has safe easy and spacious access for more than their own vehicles and where there is no issue with biosecurity either.

 

[palo1]

As an aside, why are environmental campaigners so anti everything that existed in the countryside before they moved in? Farming, horses…everything.

OP has admitted that people don’t like the perceived ‘entitlement’ of arena owners and elitism. That is a very dangerous slippery slope in my opinion.

Just because someone has something you don’t, does NOT mean you are morally entitled to a go on/in it.

I don't think all environmental campaigners are anti-everything but I guess when you stand outside some things you see them as unnecessary or don't see the bigger picture so it is easier to pick those things apart. I quite agree about the slippery slope of attacking what other people have, very often that is very hard won and we do live in a 'free' society where people are able to own property and develop that, within reason. I completely agree too that just because someone else owns something it does not mean that others are morally entitled to access that but I think that we are living in a time when questions about all sorts of consumption, access and activity are valid; even if they are only questions. It is hard for people not to get defensive and the increasing divisions in society are not making open and free discussion about contested issues any easier.

 

[COldNag]

I think most arena owners would be against this on a security point of view, let alone anything else.

 

[palo1]

just as an example access to my drive is impossible in anything over 3.5 ton and tricky in a trailer.

the majority of people cannot reverse so there go my gate posts and perfect lawn

with more than my own lorry parked in my drive i cannot get my own cars out

i have 2 stallions on site which are either in fields directly next to the arena or in stables that you have to walk past closely to access the arena

i cannot be the only person who would find this impossibly invasive and unsafe.

in fact i cannot think of one single private yard i teach at that has safe easy and spacious access for more than their own vehicles and where there is no issue with biosecurity either.

I do understand those issues - I really do, and it wasn't me in fact that mooted the idea. It would be a nightmare here too with problems with access, reversing, horse management etc etc.

 

[palo1]

I think most arena owners would be against this on a security point of view, let alone anything else.

Certainly it would give me complete heeby-jeebies from a biosecurity point of view!

 

[stangs]

There's what I have heard called "the natural arena" near to where I live... it's a roughly circular patch of sand in the forest.

Let's see if this link to Google Maps works.

Now, this would be the ideal solution for areas with sandy soil in the UK. You could even get the rewilding environmentalists on board: part of the wild European bison's niche in the ecosystem is creating clearings that could be used (carefully!) as an arena.

 

[palo1]

Taken from the other thread, I think this reply helps to convey what the local group were thinking, better than perhaps I have expressed it!! Thanks to @milliepops : I think i get what you're saying Palo. i would like to put in an arena eventually, i think it will be a *massive* planning fight to get that. it would be used daily by me easily, but if it would grease the planning wheels i would definitely be open to hosting something like saddle fitting or a clinic now and then as a community asset, provided it was managed and not a free for all. having no facilities at home i know how useful i'd find it if that was available within hacking distance or a short box trip. we would have parking for at least one vehicle at a time and the access isn't brilliant but manageable.

 

[Rowreach]

Well there is an indoor near here which got PP on condition they hired it out for other people to use. It was quite popular at first, but they rather cleverly failed to light the entrance or lorry parking, which makes it impossible to use for most people for much of the year, and they also have loads of rules about the jumps and courses that are up (as in, leave it as you find it), which is again a bit of a pain as it's an SJ yard so you're looking at a lot of jumps very specifically laid out. I used to hire it to teach clinics as it was handy for me, but it wasn't ideal so I went back to a further away facility.

There is another arena, a rather basic outdoor, which is at the livestock mart in town (where they used to have horse sales) which Riding Club members were allowed to use whenever they wanted. Again, it was useful at the time when a lot of people didn't have anywhere else to ride, but there are better options out there now.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't see the difference between using that and using one of a number of indoor and outdoor arenas that are hireable locally around here.

There's no resident horses at this facility. It's next to a rugby field on the edge of a village so in a practical sense probably not much different but it does feel different in concept. It seems, in feel, more like booking into an arena on the livery yard your horse is on than hiring the arena at another livery yard. I'm not sure if there isn't some cooperative maintenance that goes on. Once I have transport I'm going to look into it.

It's just more of a community asset than a commercial enterprise.