Company refusing to give a refund....advice please

[jules9203]

So back in November 2021 we paid for 10 tonne of top up surface for our school, delivery before Xmas. It never appeared. After some chasing delivery was then due on the 30th Dec. Again it didn't appear and no communication from the sellers until I chased at the end of the day. It was supposed to arrive on the 31st. It didn't and again I had to chase. Apparently they had problems with the hauliers but it would arrive on the 7th Jan 2022. Again no surface. I chased and was informed that they had now changed hauliers and it would be with me by the following Friday (today) at the latest. Contacted them through this week and they confirmed today. At 10.30 this morning I had a couple of messages from them saying the surface has been loaded on the lorry. It is now 6pm and nothing has arrived. I've just seen someone, last week, posted a bad review with the similar problem and saying they had asked for a refund. Apparently the company are refusing to give refunds as the problem has been with the hauliers not them. My question is what the hell do I do now? I have to take a day off each time a delivery is due. They only contact us when we chase them. Unfortunately, we didn't pay by credit card, but I'm so fed up that I really want a full refund. Is there anyway I can go about this? About to start slating them on FB.

 

[Melody Grey]

Is it an issue you could take up with trading standards? I appreciate you haven’t contracted the haulier personally, but the surface company have as part of a transaction you’ve paid for so can’t pass the book. If the haulier is unreliable, they should be switching to another.

ETA: what I’m trying to say is, surely the surface company is fully responsible for getting the product to you and can’t expect to keep the money if you have no product?

 

[Flicker]

Would it meet the criteria for a claim through Small Claims Court?

 

[Melody Grey]

It can’t harm to mention trading standards and the small claims court at this point, may galvanise action!!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

You bought a product from them to be delivered. It has not been delivered. The fact that it's a "haulier problem" is not your problem. The seller doesn't get to just keep your money and not deliver the product. If delivery was part of the deal they need to get it to you. Since they've failed, repeatedly, it would he right to request a refund. I'm not sure what legitimate ground they have to stand on to deny a refund. If part of the deal was to deliver to the customer, you must deliver to the customer.

I agree with mentioning trading standards and small claims court to them if they don't comply. They don't just get to keep your money. Sucks for them if they actually have a haulier problem, but that's their problem to figure out.

 

[Flicker]

It can’t harm to mention trading standards and the small claims court at this point, may galvanise action!!

Good point. My mum had a heck of a time with a kitchen fitter a few years ago and in exasperation said on the phone to him, ‘I’m really at the point where I’m going to have to speak to my lawyer’ (she doesn’t have a lawyer). Miraculously he found time in his schedule to finish the job…

 

[Jenko109]

How did you pay?

 

[nutjob]

The first thing to do is formally request a refund and give them a fair time to do this. If not forthcoming raise a claim for a charge back with your bank and at the same time send a letter before action which gives them 14 days to return your money and informs them formally of your intension to take them to small claims court. Still no refund go to MCOL and raise a small claims case, it's online, simple and inexpensive just tedious to fill in the info. If they don't respond the court will find in your favour. Still no money send the bailiffs.

 

[Jenko109]

The first thing to do is formally request a refund and give them a fair time to do this. If not forthcoming raise a claim for a charge back with your bank and at the same time send a letter before action which gives them 14 days to return your money and informs them formally of your intension to take them to small claims court. Still no refund go to MCOL and raise a small claims case, it's online, simple and inexpensive just tedious to fill in the info. If they don't respond the court will find in your favour. Still no money send the bailiffs.

Wouldn't even bother waiting for the refund. Goods not received meets the requirements for a chargeback. This is assuming she paid by debit card, she has not confirmed this. This will be a piece of p*** case for the bank to win. Would completely negate the need for small claims court.

 

[nutjob]

You can do a chargeback if you have paid by bank transfer these days.

 

[Jenko109]

You can do a chargeback if you have paid by bank transfer these days.

No you can't. For a scam/fraud type transaction then it's sometimes possible if the banks work together.

This is a retail dispute.

 

[nutjob]

I won a charge back case in which the transaction was by bank transfer. I did not collect the money as the recipient bank account had zero funds.

 

[Jenko109]

I won a charge back case in which the transaction was by bank transfer. I did not collect the money as the recipient bank account had zero funds.

Firstly. It's not a charge back.

Secondly, the circumstances would not be the same as this one. I expect you were the victim of a scam.

 

[nutjob]

Firstly. It's not a charge back.

Actually it was. I still have all the paperwork from my bank as the issue is still ongoing with bailiffs. It was referred to by my bank as a charge back and the money was for the purchase of a horse from a dealer which then disappeared. So it's very similar to this case where I paid for something and the vendor couldn't or wouldn't supply it.

 

[Jenko109]

Actually it was. I still have all the paperwork from my bank as the issue is still ongoing with bailiffs. It was referred to by my bank as a charge back and the money was for the purchase of a horse from a dealer which then disappeared. So it's very similar to this case where I paid for something and the vendor couldn't or wouldn't supply it.

Okay. Well feel free to look up the definition of a chargeback.

You were scammed. You paid money for something which likely never existed or wasnt theirs to sell in the first place and the person I imagine dropped all contact with you. The bank had fair grounds to treat it as a scam and the receiving bank must have agreed, although by this point they had wiped the money out of the account anyway. I expect you weren't the only one and with multiple complaints, they had to act.

This case is not the same. It sounds like a legitimate business who are just being crap.

I only deal with these cases day in, day out, but I'm sure you're right. Bank transfers are not a safe payment method for paying for goods. They offer you far less protection and its much, much harder to get your money back.

 

[nutjob]

You paid money for something which likely never existed

Are you sure??? I really hope you are wrong as I have a recollection of travelling to see it . There were several horses at the site did I imagine them all?

 

[Jenko109]

Are you sure??? I really hope you are wrong as I have a recollection of travelling to see it . There were several horses at the site did I imagine them all?

You seem to have only quoted part of my post. You were scammed. The dealer probably led a number of people up the garden path in the same way. If enough people flag it and that account/person gets enough complaints and there is enough evidence to prove it's a scam, then it's a scam.

This isn't the same. Please stop making out that bank transfers are safe, because they aren't. Making out on the internet that it is easy to raise a 'charge back' from a bank transfer is hugely misleading and will set other people up to fail. If you had paid by debit card then you would have your money back, even if the merchant was broke. You paid by bank transfer, which is why you don't.

 

[Kaylum]

Are they a limited company on companies house?
If so check out they aren't trying to dissolve the company.
Next contact trading standards they will help you.

 

[nutjob]

Please stop making out that bank transfers are safe

I am not making out that bank transfers are safe, I got zero money back as stated. The OP has already paid by whatever means and now needs to get the money back, I am suggest OP tries this as it is free and is it useful when you go to court as it helps your case if you can prove that that you have tried to recover the money first rather than just going straight to small claims.

Are they a limited company on companies house?
If so check out they aren't trying to dissolve the company.
Next contact trading standards they will help you.

It's not a limited company it was a dealer who at the time had an excellent reputation and was previously a pro SJer who had jumped internationally as a junior. He was teaching and had sold quite a few horses in previous years and was recommended to me by someone who I have trained with on and off for 10 years. He has done a bunk from the yard he was renting, presumably due to not paying the rent and is now hiding out at one of at least 3 possible locations that I am aware of. Trading standards have been contacted, they do nothing to help individuals, they only take action if enough people complain. I am in contact with about 6 other people who also had a problem and say they have contacted TS to no avail. The other people have all ended up with an unsuitable horse, not no horse at all so they are in a more difficult position to prove their case. Ironically when he did a bunk there were very sadly 2 or 3 horses abandoned at the yard with no food / water, prob not the one I was interested in though as it was a several weeks later.

 

[AmyMay]

It's not a limited company

The question related to the OP…

 

[Kaylum]

I am not making out that bank transfers are safe, I got zero money back as stated. The OP has already paid by whatever means and now needs to get the money back, I am suggest OP tries this as it is free and is it useful when you go to court as it helps your case if you can prove that that you have tried to recover the money first rather than just going straight to small claims.



It's not a limited company it was a dealer who at the time had an excellent reputation and was previously a pro SJer who had jumped internationally as a junior. He was teaching and had sold quite a few horses in previous years and was recommended to me by someone who I have trained with on and off for 10 years. He has done a bunk from the yard he was renting, presumably due to not paying the rent and is now hiding out at one of at least 3 possible locations that I am aware of. Trading standards have been contacted, they do nothing to help individuals, they only take action if enough people complain. I am in contact with about 6 other people who also had a problem and say they have contacted TS to no avail. The other people have all ended up with an unsuitable horse, not no horse at all so they are in a more difficult position to prove their case. Ironically when he did a bunk there were very sadly 2 or 3 horses abandoned at the yard with no food / water, prob not the one I was interested in though as it was a several weeks later.

Then I would go to Facebook and put on equine disputes page

 

[Keith_Beef]

You bought a product from them to be delivered. It has not been delivered. The fact that it's a "haulier problem" is not your problem.

Exactly this.

You have a contract with a company to provide a service. That this company contracts with other companies to supply materials or to transport materials has no bearing on your initial contract with the first company

 

[jules9203]

Thank you everyone. We unfortunately paid by BACS. ( For once we actually had the money!) We did research them before and they are a legit company with good reviews in until now. I did finally get to speak to them last night and they are supposedly trying to find out where in the country our rubber is. Going to give them until Monday.

 

[lynz88]

Blaming it on the haulers is like blaming something on Royal Mail or Hermes. I suspect it is part of the contract you have with them for them to fulfill their end of the deal by having the product delivered, regardless of whether they use a third party or not to deliver the goods. If the third party delivery company screws up, it is not your liability/problem and I would suspect you have every right to get a refund of some sort if that's what you are after. I would contact trading standards or the bank.

 

[AmyMay]

Thank you everyone. We unfortunately paid by BACS. ( For once we actually had the money!) We did research them before and they are a legit company with good reviews in until now. I did finally get to speak to them last night and they are supposedly trying to find out where in the country our rubber is. Going to give them until Monday.

If it’s not delivered on Monday (by midday) speak to your bank for a reversal of funds.

 

[jhoward]

No you can't. For a scam/fraud type transaction then it's sometimes possible if the banks work together.

This is a retail dispute.

Actually yes you can...

How does chargeback work?
Chargeback is a transaction reversal made to dispute a card transaction and secure a refund for the purchase.

Chargeback works by the bank withdrawing funds that were previously deposited into the recipient’s - usually a retailer - bank account and putting them back into your account.

The recipient may dispute a chargeback with the bank if it can prove the chargeback is invalid.

Chargeback vs Section 75
Chargeback is not enshrined in law but is part of Scheme Rules, which participating banks subscribe to.

Debit cards It applies to all debit cards goods, although exact rules may vary between the Visa, Maestro and American Express networks.

Credit cards Chargeback is particularly useful where the cost of the goods or services was under £100 and Section 75 doesn't apply. For all credit card transactions over £100 you also have rights under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

KEY INFORMATION

In summary

• Chargeback is not enshrined in law but is part of Scheme Rules, which participating banks subscribe to
• Chargeback can apply if goods are damaged, not as described, or haven't been delivered
• You also have rights under Section 75 for goods costing more than £100 if paid by credit card
• You can use Section 75 if the merchant has ceased trading

 

[jhoward]

Here's the link to full page

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-use-chargeback-abZ2d4z3nT8q

 

[Jenko109]

Actually yes you can...

How does chargeback work?
Chargeback is a transaction reversal made to dispute a card transaction and secure a refund for the purchase.

Chargeback works by the bank withdrawing funds that were previously deposited into the recipient’s - usually a retailer - bank account and putting them back into your account.

The recipient may dispute a chargeback with the bank if it can prove the chargeback is invalid.

Chargeback vs Section 75
Chargeback is not enshrined in law but is part of Scheme Rules, which participating banks subscribe to.

Debit cards It applies to all debit cards goods, although exact rules may vary between the Visa, Maestro and American Express networks.

Credit cards Chargeback is particularly useful where the cost of the goods or services was under £100 and Section 75 doesn't apply. For all credit card transactions over £100 you also have rights under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

KEY INFORMATION

In summary

• Chargeback is not enshrined in law but is part of Scheme Rules, which participating banks subscribe to
• Chargeback can apply if goods are damaged, not as described, or haven't been delivered
• You also have rights under Section 75 for goods costing more than £100 if paid by credit card
• You can use Section 75 if the merchant has ceased trading

Read it again. CARD TRANSACTION.

 

[mini-eventer]

In all honesty couriers for bulk items have been a nightmare for me at work. There are huge problems with a shortage of drivers. if they genuinely have good reviews chances are it will turn up monday/Tuesday. But that would be my limit

 

[VRIN]

I would contact your bank in the first instance. I paid for goods by debit card. They never arrived and despite numerous attempts to contact the company - no reply. I trade trading standards and that was an unsatisfactory encounter! However the bank paid back instantly, explained that if the company had evidence of delivery - bit tricky as it was a pallet of wood chip!! - then they would claim it back. Well time has passed, I got the refund and we are now over the time to pay back. Always a good first port of call.