Conflicting tuition advice

[Throw_away]

Hi all, longtime member here but using a new account.

I've just started tuition with a new instructor, who teaches a completely different riding technique and it's left me feeling very conflicted.

He teaches more of a classical dressage approach and the whole thing is worlds apart from everything I've ever been told about how to ride.

We've had a few sessions this week where we've been focusing on my position and he keeps telling me I need to be really tightly gripping with my upper leg, which includes my knees.

Of course, as soon as I do that I lose my lower leg and everything goes to pot. My stirrups are flapping about all over the place, I feel I have no ability to perform leg aids, I feel less controlled.

He tells me over and over again that this is okay and normal and that I just need to concentrate on my upper leg from now on and that my lower leg will eventually fall into place.

It's making me feel a bit suspicious if I'm honest and I'm concerned that I'm essentially being taught to unlearn the correct way to ride a horse.

I've always always always always been told that you should carry your weight THROUGH your legs and down into your heels, so that your lower leg remains solid. But I am now being told to keep my lower leg loose and focus on keeping my thigh and knees super tight against the saddle.

Is this normal with this technique or am I being taught the wrong thing? I like the instructor, he is friendly and seems to know his stuff and is also very knowledgeable about horses and riding generally. We've had three lessons this week and I'm getting the hang of the instructions he is giving me, but there is a voice in the back of my head telling me I'm not being taught the right things.

 

[milliepops]

i haven't had a classical dressage lesson in my life but i can't imagine gripping like that to do anything except produce tension and push you off your seat.

 

[dorsetladette]

It does sound a little odd. Has he explained what he is trying to achieve/improve in your riding from this technique?

 

[Reacher]

I have had a handful of classical dressage lessons recently (so not claiming to be an expert!) and have never been told to grip with upper leg.

 

[Throw_away]

It does sound a little odd. Has he explained what he is trying to achieve/improve in your riding from this technique?

Supposedly this is going to produce a really strong and independent seat and is going to stop me having to rely on my stirrups to keep me in the saddle.

Thing is I don't feel that I was relying on my stirrups anyway, but he is telling me that I should not be putting any weight in them and should instead be putting all my weight in my thighs.

As I type this all out it's making me want to laugh because it just sounds so incredibly ridiculous...

 

[teapot]

Supposedly this is going to produce a really strong and independent seat and is going to stop me having to rely on my stirrups to keep me in the saddle.

Thing is I don't feel that I was relying on my stirrups anyway, but he is telling me that I should not be putting any weight in them and should instead be putting all my weight in my thighs.

As I type this all out it's making me want to laugh because it just sounds so incredibly ridiculous...

Think you should find yourself a new coach…

 

[Throw_away]

I have had a handful of classical dressage lessons recently (so not claiming to be an expert!) and have never been told to grip with upper leg.

Okay, thank you! That's helpful as I now know that this isn't just "the classical way"

 

[Throw_away]

i haven't had a classical dressage lesson in my life but i can't imagine gripping like that to do anything except produce tension and push you off your seat.

Apparently it will do the opposite, he said that it'll keep me more solid in the saddle but it doesn't feel that way at all.

When I said this to him his advice was "it'll come" but I don't want to go ahead and keep learning this way if I'm just going to be unlearning everything I knew before.

I think posting this thread has been helpful in making me realise this is definitely not for me!

 

[dorsetladette]

As kids we had horrible lessons with an old army colonel. We did 12 weeks with no stirrups to help with our seat and balance. He never said to grip with the thigh, but more you needed to close your thigh around the horse in order to keep your balance while bobbing around in sitting trot for what felt like for ever.

 

[milliepops]

yeah. i can understand "closed". but not gripping.

 

[Throw_away]

As kids we had horrible lessons with an old army colonel. We did 12 weeks with no stirrups to help with our seat and balance. He never said to grip with the thigh, but more you needed to close your thigh around the horse in order to keep your balance while bobbing around in sitting trot for what felt like for ever.

At first I thought that this might be what he is getting at, which I would have been okay with. But during my last session he said that I need to be so tight against the saddle with my knee and thigh that my muscles burn.

Burn they did! But I did not feel that I had an ounce of control of the horse beneath me, my lower legs might as well not have existed as they were so loose and flappy that they weren't able to even make contact with the horse due to how tightly I was engaging my upper leg muscles

 

[Throw_away]

I'm laughing at my own replies here because reading them back, it all sounds as though I've fallen the victim of a late April Fools ???

 

[Cowpony]

I have lessons with a dressage coach and she's getting me to push my knees away from the saddle, because I'd got into the habit of gripping with my knees and it was blocking my horse's shoulder.

If you keep no weight in your heels how do you keep your stirrups?

 

[Throw_away]

I have lessons with a dressage coach and she's getting me to push my knees away from the saddle, because I'd got into the habit of gripping with my knees and it was blocking my horse's shoulder.

If you keep no weight in your heels how do you keep your stirrups?

"You don't need your stirrups" was his response to that one ?

 

[Highmileagecob]

I am reading this and wonder if men ride with a different seat because of ...errr..anatomical differences

 

[smolmaus]

Maybe we should switch coaches. He would love my grippy knees that are the bane of my life and a source of constant irritation to every instructor I've ever had.

 

[Peglo]

When I used to ride my old haffie it was usually bareback and I gripped with my thighs as if I used any lower leg she would just go even faster. (We never needed to go faster ?) 16 years on and I don’t lose my stirrups as much as I used to but it’s taken a long time to sort my legs out. I don’t know much about it but I find it odd anyone would teach that.

 

[Melody Grey]

Is it a misinterpretation? I can see how closed thighs would be helpful, though not gripping up.some weight in the stirrups is necessary- maybe he means just not all of the weight in the stirrups (like when people force their ankles down and their lower leg ends up rigid)?

 

[Throw_away]

Maybe we should switch coaches. He would love my grippy knees that are the bane of my life and a source of constant irritation to every instructor I've ever had.

This is what I'm really struggling to get past, years of being told "NEVER GRIP WITH YOUR KNEES" and now being told "keep those knees on tight" eurgh!

 

[Throw_away]

Is it a misinterpretation? I can see how closed thighs would be helpful, though not gripping up.some weight in the stirrups is necessary- maybe he means just not all of the weight in the stirrups (like when people force their ankles down and their lower leg ends up rigid)?

I had thought it could be this, until our last session where I basically had to tense and heave my body harder than ever to keep my upper leg as tight as he wanted it to be.

It was absolute agony to keep my leg as tight against the saddle as he wanted and it left my lower leg completely uncontrolled, and his response was "that's great!"

Coincidentally, when I cheekily switched to my usual approach he was full of praise and told me I'd cracked it - until I told him that I'd just been riding the way I used to ride and suddenly it was "ah, well it's no good you switching back to your old technique"

 

[Shilasdair]

Just .

 

[Melody Grey]

I had thought it could be this, until our last session where I basically had to tense and heave my body harder than ever to keep my upper leg as tight as he wanted it to be.

It was absolute agony to keep my leg as tight against the saddle as he wanted and it left my lower leg completely uncontrolled, and his response was "that's great!"

Coincidentally, when I cheekily switched to my usual approach he was full of praise and told me I'd cracked it - until I told him that I'd just been riding the way I used to ride and suddenly it was "ah, well it's no good you switching back to your old technique"

In that case.....time for a change!! Imagine how your tension must feel for the horse! Mine would be testing the launch procedure!

 

[Throw_away]

In that case.....time for a change!! Imagine how your tension must feel for the horse! Mine would be testing the launch procedure!

Yes I think so, too! One of those situations where I needed to talk it out and see the whole thing clearly to realise that moving on is the best approach.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I've had quite a few different classical instructors, and even a couple of Klassikal instructors-none of them had me grip with my knees. Gripping with knees was how I was first taught in the early-mid 70s, where we would have to ride with 10p pieces between knee and saddle and keep them there.

 

[Reacher]

My classical instructor recommends this book - Sally Swift - Centred Riding. My RI and this book both talk about riding as if you have no leg below the knee, - basically riding using the upper leg, I’m wondering if this is what is being miscommunicated? But definitely no gripping.
Page 67 of the SS book says “Don’t pinch the saddle with your thighs, knees or calves. The horse will be uncomfortable if you squeeze too much and will not move freely”. (Trot chapter) (Which is kind of obvious but it helps seeing it written in a book).
Gripping will cause tension which will mean the pelvis can’t relax into the saddle with the movement, blocking the horse’s movement as you aren’t following the movement ?

I did get told off in my last lesson for trying to force my heels down - as they have a tendency to lift - was told just to let the feet rest on the stirrups.

Actually I also got told off for inadvertently gripping (old bad habits) - and was told to tilt the sole of my feet so that the weight was on the outside of the stirrup treads - outside of soles of feet being lower than inside ) which stops your knees gripping.

 

[ArklePig]

My instructor spends his whole life telling me to relax my upper leg as I'm going to pop myself off one of the days. I'm having trouble visualising exactly what he wants you to do. I think you and other posters are correct, you should try someone else.

 

[Throw_away]

My classical instructor recommends this book - Sally Swift - Centred Riding. My RI and this book both talk about riding as if you have no leg below the knee, - basically riding using the upper leg, I’m wondering if this is what is being miscommunicated? But definitely no gripping.
Page 67 of the SS book says “Don’t pinch the saddle with your thighs, knees or calves. The horse will be uncomfortable if you squeeze too much and will not move freely”. (Trot chapter) (Which is kind of obvious but it helps seeing it written in a book).
Gripping will cause tension which will mean the pelvis can’t relax into the saddle with the movement, blocking the horse’s movement as you aren’t following the movement ?

I did get told off in my last lesson for trying to force my heels down - as they have a tendency to lift - was told just to let the feet rest on the stirrups.

Actually I also got told off for inadvertently gripping (old bad habits) - and was told to tilt the sole of my feet so that the weight was on the outside of the stirrup treads - outside of soles of feet being lower than inside ) which stops your knees gripping.

This sounds very much like what he is trying to get at! He basically said that the aim is that I'll eventually not need stirrups at all because none of my weight will be in my lower leg, it'll all be coming from my thigh. But this still feels so wrong?

I did ask for clarification re the gripping and he was adamant that, yes, I should be really holding on tight using my thigh muscles and should be keeping my knee in constant contact with the saddle, which to me means gripping which = bad.

 

[Throw_away]

My instructor spends his whole life telling me to relax my upper leg as I'm going to pop myself off one of the days. I'm having trouble visualising exactly what he wants you to do. I think you and other posters are correct, you should try someone else.

This is also what I'm used to being told, relax your body and don't grip with anywhere.

 

[little_critter]

yeah. i can understand "closed". but not gripping.

See I'm being taught pretty much the same at the moment. I've always had a problem with my toes turning out and my knees being too floppy away from the saddle.
To rectify this I need to really think about pointing my knees into the knee rolls and taking my lower leg OFF.
It's not really gripping with the thighs, it's more about swizzling my hip joint so my knees are more in and "on". To someone who was too floppy previously this can feel like gripping.
My trainer said that my previous leg position (floppy knee and toes out, calves on) would be blocking and numbing the horse. Getting the muscle memory to ride with my knees forward (feels "in" to me) and calves OFF will free up the horse and make him more sensitive to my leg aids when I do give them.

 

[Shilasdair]

See I'm being taught pretty much the same at the moment. I've always had a problem with my toes turning out and my knees being too floppy away from the saddle.
To rectify this I need to really think about pointing my knees into the knee rolls and taking my lower leg OFF.
It's not really gripping with the thighs, it's more about swizzling my hip joint so my knees are more in and "on". To someone who was too floppy previously this can feel like gripping.
My trainer said that my previous leg position (floppy knee and toes out, calves on) would be blocking and numbing the horse. Getting the muscle memory to ride with my knees forward (feels "in" to me) and calves OFF will free up the horse and make him more sensitive to my leg aids when I do give them.

But do you have naturally toe- out conformation when you walk? I do. And if I try to force my toes in, I just create tension which doesn't help the horse.
I think too many instructors teach people how to ride as though they were 5'10 skinny people with no boobs, entirely symmetrical bodies with no weaknesses or injuries - and all it does is create tension and eventually damage to joints and muscles (human and horse).