Contradictions

[soggy]

Suggitt

It most definitely yours. Its even got your name written inside.

 

[soggy]

Who was the fool that posted

"Hmmm, you dont know that dogs (spaniels, often) are used at airports and such places to sniff out drugs and also explosives ? "

Duh! You don't say.

 

[soggy]

I've taken a leaf out of your book.

Fun+sport=Immorality.

What a crock!

Your not a Wesleyian by any chance?

Have fun

SBB

 

[severnmiles]

I'm sorry SoD but meeting hounds does not make your view on hunting valid, what can that teach you about morals/whether hunting with hounds is humane bla bla? Nothing.

 

[severnmiles]

"This post is about contradictions. One thing pros can't say is RS has ever contradicted himself on the "sport" arguement."

You are right which is why I respect RS. However whether or not he contradicts himself does not make his views anymore or less valid than they are.

 

[Parkranger]

My god, what have I started?

 

[soggy]

Darn right Severn!

Its all a crock.

 

[soggy]

And again.

 

[flying_change]

Dont worry, threads often digress a bit.....

 

[flying_change]

"Your not a Wesleyian by any chance?"

No, I have leanings towards Buddhism more than anything else.

 

[soggy]

Don't lean to far, you might topple over.

I had a suspicion that you agruement was based upon some quasi, psuedo, religious view.

 

[Doreys_Mum]

I'm sorry SoD but meeting hounds does not make your view on hunting valid, what can that teach you about morals/whether hunting with hounds is humane bla bla? Nothing.

It's not the MEETING of the hounds that was symbolic... it was the fact that I took him around 3 or 4 packs of hounds at a show, where the huntsmen were more than happy to discuss hunting in the ring. Not only did RS meet the hounds, but he listened to the huntsman and me warbling on about it, with no escape, as the hunts rather outnumbered him

Most antis would have refused to attend such an event on principle - lest of all sat and listened to the huntsman without shouting abuse!

 

[flying_change]

"I had a suspicion that you agruement was based upon some quasi, psuedo, religious view. "

I bet you're happy to know that it wasnt. After all, the Buddhist, Muslim, and Jewish faiths all oppose killing for sport.

 

[severnmiles]

Which is why I respect RS. The fact he did that still doesn't give him any hard knowledge of hunting though. Therefore (sorry RS) I still find his opinions unvalid.

 

[Doreys_Mum]

RS - all religeons oppose killing for sport.... they all preach love for all of the creatures on earth...

However, we're now back to whether or not hunting with hounds is a sport, or a service...

 

[flying_change]

Which I hope does go to indicate to the likes of SBB, Tom-F, Carreg and 7Miles that I am prepared to listen and learn.

I admit that I've not learned anything than so far has made me change my basic point of view.

But theyses people have all said that I'm too ignorant to have a point of view anyway.

But then none of them have risen to the challenge of teaching me anything (apart from, in a couple of cases, how to be sarcastic).

So maybe I should repeat the challenge; I ask them to tell me what they think I ought to know in order to have a well-informed opinion about hunting. I'll listen. You never know, I might change your mind.

But for them it's put up or shut up time.

Because if they dont do this - at the n'th time of asking - I'll assume that they cant. And anyone telling me that I'm uninformed in the future will be reminded that they failed to tell me and us (because a lot of people read this forum) just what they do know. And that means that everything else from them is just bluff and hot air. Even an insulting reply is just hot air, and an evasion from the challenge.

The ball is in your court guys.

RS

 

[CARREG]

I think there are writings in the Koran that actually encourage hunting for food AND sport, I'll see if I can find the quotes used elswhere from the Koran..........Carreg

 

[CARREG]

RS
My problem isnt your point of view, its your actual reason for being an anti, I decide for myself what I think is immoral, and I wont have your morals thrust down my throat, Ive been hunting almost 30 years everywhere I hunt has a healthy stable population of wildlife, some of the surrounding areas are like wildlife deserts... do I enjoy hunting ??...yes...do I hunt only for enjoyment ??...no....I'll let my sister [vegan] have the last word...meat eating antis are no different to badger baiters, no better, no worse...........Carreg

 

[flying_change]

"My problem isnt your point of view, its your actual reason for being an anti, I decide for myself what I think is immoral, and I wont have your morals thrust down my throat"

Of course you decide for yourself what you think is immoral. What I'm doing here is sharing my opinions with you, discussing them, and where necessary defending them. That's what a debate site is for. In my opinion, it's immoral to make sport out of killing animals, but you know that already. If you feel this is ramming my morals down your throat, that's your problem; maybe you shouldnt visit this part of the forum if you dont like reading ideas that you dont agree with . If my morals stick in your throat, maybe you should ask yourself why. If your sister wants to discuss veganism on the site, I'll be happy to read what she says. I personally dont agree that being anti-hunting should imply that one should be vegan or vegetarian.

RS

 

[severnmiles]

But do you think that hunting which is to us pro's morally right should be banned because YOU think its immoral, disregarding the fact of whether it is more humane that other morally right(in your view) methods? Does the fox care about morals? No.

 

[wurzel]

"After all, the Buddhist, Muslim, and Jewish faiths all oppose killing for sport."

You sure about that ??

You need to tell the muslims of the Arabian peninsula that !

But of course, my eyes may have deceived me!

 

[wurzel]

"But theyses people have all said that I'm too ignorant to have a point of view anyway."

No, I think you are welcome to have your point of view.

"But then none of them have risen to the challenge of teaching me anything (apart from, in a couple of cases, how to be sarcastic)."

I will teach you, what do you want to know?

"So maybe I should repeat the challenge; I ask them to tell me what they think I ought to know in order to have a well-informed opinion about hunting. I'll listen. You never know, I might change your mind."

I don't think you OUGHT to know anything. I believe you only want to have things your way, which obviously you can't.

You want me to snare foxes. You think that is moral. I think it is moral to chase them and kill them.

There is probably many mays are morals are completely opposite. We will probably never agree.

You have conviction which is admirable.

Muslims don;t hunt for sport you say with conviction.

You mean some muslims. Which part of the muslim world do you get you experience and conviction from?

I can teach you where muslims DO hunt for sport. I can give you exact locations.

Here beggineth the first lesson...

 

[flying_change]

Do carry on....

 

[flying_change]

"But do you think that hunting which is to us pro's morally right should be banned because YOU think its immoral,"
Yes.

"disregarding the fact of whether it is more humane that other morally right(in your view) methods? "

I'm happy to find another method that is both moral and humane.

"Does the fox care about morals? No. "
As you say, no. But humans do.

RS

 

[flying_change]

"Muslims don;t hunt for sport you say with conviction"

I base my comments on references such as these....

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.com/FAQ/Cultural/FAQ_Cultural.html

http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/109_what_does_judaism_sa.htm

http://www.amidatrust.com/article_animals.html

but you are welcome to google 'muslim sport hunting' and 'judaism sport hunting'. I think there's no doubt that the teaching of these religions is agains blood sports. Of course, not all members of these faiths follow all the teachings.

 

[wurzel]

I am not interested in Google.

But I am interested in real life.

What I have seen and experienced.

"I think there's no doubt that the teaching of these religions is agains blood sports. Of course, not all members of these faiths follow all the teachings. "

So what you said was absolutely meaningless, wasn't it?

http://www.sheikhmohammed.co.ae/english/history/history_falconry.asp

Imagine. The ruler of Dubai, a pious Muslim, laughing in the face of his religion !

A spot of travel for you my friend.

Or have you "done" the Arab world ?

 

[severnmiles]

""But do you think that hunting which is to us pro's morally right should be banned because YOU think its immoral,"
Yes."

I find that comment rather selfish. Will you alter your lifestyle to match what I believe is morally right or wrong? If I believe flying should be banned due to the release of fuel and the damage it is doing to the earth, also many birds are killed by planes, will you stop?

 

[flying_change]

"Will you alter your lifestyle to match what I believe is morally right or wrong? If I believe flying should be banned due to the release of fuel and the damage it is doing to the earth, also many birds are killed by planes, will you stop? "

Yes, if a) you convince me that I should do so, and/or b) it becomes illegal.

RS

 

[flying_change]

"What I have seen and experienced."

So, tell us about it.

 

[Karla]

It's obvious you have very little life experience. There's more to life than breeding pigs.