Contradictions

Fairynuff

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karla, I may be wrong but I believe TF is a sheep farmer, or to put it in nice modern terms a "wool grower", or is he a mutton man? Dont think pigs are his main thing anyway. Mairi.
 

soggy

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So I have been informed . They also allow ritual slaughter!


Hmmm something of a dichotomy there I think.

Apart from Buddist of course, but then they would agree to anything.
 

Doreys_Mum

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There is nothing wrong with trying to influence someone's lifestyle if you find it abhorrent...

I happen to find intensive farming and the GBP's (great british public's) mindless quest for cheaper, more hormone filled, unhealthy, bland and tasteless meat abhorrent and would like to see the practise abandoned...

Does that make me a heathen with no opinion too?
 

soggy

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"But do you think that hunting which is to us pro's morally right should be banned because YOU think its immoral,"
Yes.
Theres the rub. We dont want to march to the sound of your drum Suggitt. Nothing you have said in the month of posting has convinced me that hunting for sport is immoral.

You seem totally fixated on one very small aspect of hunting. why is that? The death of the quarry is an incidental aspect of hunting. Its it quick 99.9% of the time and that 0.1% where it is not its only a matter of minutes.

I'm happy to find another method that is both moral and humane.
Well there you go then. Problem solved. How long do you think it will take you to find one? Can we expect a post with your finding in what say 12 months?

[/quote]
"Does the fox care about morals? No. "
As you say, no. But humans do. [/quote]

True, and my moral barometer says there is no immorality.

Sport+killing=Immorality

What a crock!

Have fun

SBB
 

wurzel

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""What I have seen and experienced."

So, tell us about it."

I have been hunting with Muslims in the Hatta mountains, the Mussandam, and Bait Al Khor among others.

Obviously not practising muslims I guess.

Want to know about hunting for fun in different parts of the world ?

Narssarsuaq ? The eskimos love to hunt and trap.

Its a big wide world out there?

Any more tests on Muslim customs habibi?
 

wurzel

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"It's obvious you have very little life experience."

Is it? Quite probably. But I am happy. And particularly happy when out hunting.

I presume you are happy with that too?

"There's more to life than breeding pigs."

Quite possibly. Although I imagine it to be rather interesting. Each to their own.
 

wurzel

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"karla, I may be wrong but I believe TF is a sheep farmer, or to put it in nice modern terms a "wool grower", or is he a mutton man? Dont think pigs are his main thing anyway. Mairi."

Correct, incorrect, incorrect, and correct.
 

Karla

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No one who's travelled widely could be as blinkered and petty-minded as you. You've probably been to a Center Parc - that's about it.
 

wurzel

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You will have to elaborate.

In what way am I petty minded or blinkered ?

Mr Suggitt pontificated that muslims don't hunt for fun. I said I had joined them. I also provided a link to a common blood sport in the emirates. It is also common in Saudi, Oman, Aden, Afghanistan and Iraq. Probably elsewhere.

Blinkered?

"You've probably been to a Center Parc - that's about it."

Probably. But actually not. Although I wouldn't mind. Are they in Holland?

Keep trying Karl.
 

Karla

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My advice to you is to leave this forum for at least six months and travel. See that there are lots of things in the world outside pig farming (not that there's anything wrong with that career). When you return perhaps you'll view debates here in a less fanatical way. The sad alternative is that you'll end up like the ludicrous AlanE, or the resident McDonalds clowns Carreg and his/your "chum" Sogblahblah.
 

wurzel

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My travelling days are over Karl.

I am here to stay.

Thanks for your relevant input Karl.

I take it you are not here for the hunting debate.

Never mind, we will carry on regardless. What ever is good for my muslim brothers is good enough for me.

It is the Ummah you see.
 

Karla

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Ummah Thurman?

Well it's your bed, my lad, you lie in it. If you want to be manacled to that Soggy specimen it's up to you. I can think of more appealing bed-fellows though.
 

Doreys_Mum

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"Where exactly am I an overpayed under sexed chauvanistic male Labour MP then?"

I don't know what you are.

But you want to interfere with other peoples lives so I guess you fit the bill.
Did they stop fitting glass stomachs on the NHS then?

Actually, I'm a rather liberal if non too quiet supporter of peace, love for all animals and humans, who wants to change the world one day, but for the better... to see an end to arrogance and hatred, an end to people not being able to see out of their own digestive system far enough to understand that other people have views and feelings...

My concern is that we are a culture now so driven by money and fashion that we've forgotton how everything we do COULD be compassionate, and COULD help make someone or somethings life a lot better...

My aim in life is not to interfer, not to ban things that don't need banning, but to help people to see that their actions DO effect others, that they are NOT just useless ants on the face of the earth, and that the little things they do CAN help...

Not very labourish at all!

Plus, I'm female... and tory born and bred...
 

wurzel

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"Actually, I'm a rather liberal if non too quiet supporter of peace, love for all animals and humans,"

"Plus, I'm female... and tory born and bred..."

"to see an end to arrogance and hatred, an end to people not being able to see out of their own digestive system far enough to understand that other people have views and feelings..."


Are you Condoleeza Rice ?

What has any of this crap got to do with a hunting debate?
 

soggy

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And one hell of a bore!

You're 40 years to late you should have been a Hippie.

Peace , love , dope . Man!
 

flying_change

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Nope nope nope. RS said 'After all, the Buddhist, Muslim, and Jewish faiths all oppose killing for sport. ' If you cant see the difference between what I wrote and what you thought it meant.....
 

flying_change

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"They also allow ritual slaughter!"

I agree that this method of slaughter is outdated and seems barbaric, but....

a) the ritual slaughter is for human consumption, not sport.

b) it's designed to minimise suffering to the animal

c) such is the concern for the animal and gratitude for its life that prayers are said.
 

flying_change

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"Have you ever seen a sheep with its throat cut"

Nope, though I've seen quite a few carcasses on Dartmoor. But read again what I said. I agreed it was outmoded. I also said there were particular reasons for it being done that way.
 

flying_change

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"Want to know about hunting for fun in different parts of the world ?

Narssarsuaq ? The eskimos love to hunt and trap."

Well I've spent some time in Barrow in Alaska, which was quote an eye-opener. Yes, Inuit do love to hunt. But they hunt for subsistence, for food. In fact, just about everything they have to keep themselves alive comes from sea or land animals. This is because the land is so barren in those regions that there are no trees, no crops, nothing glowing in the tundra (apart from moss and lichen). The hunters are a very important part of this society, because without hunting, there is starvation.

But the inuit does have a deep spiritual life, and a spiritual connection with the animals that he hunts. I found this description.... "To avoid their hostility, souls of the important subsistence animals-- seals, walrus, whales, and polar bears--were propitiated through extensive honorary customs and taboos. For example, one of the most widespread customs was for the hunter's wife to offer a dead seal a drink of water as a sign of hospitality when her husband brought the carcass to the entryway of the house. In some areas, especially western Alaska, complex annual ceremonies of thanksgiving were performed in honor of the souls of seals and whales.

The central religious figure was the SHAMAN (angakok in some of the central Canadian languages). His functions were comprehensive: to divine the causes of poor hunting, which often was believed to be brought on by a group member breaking food or hunting taboos; to diagnose and treat sickness; and to serve as the general source of advice in coping with crisis. Most groups believed in a supreme ruler of the sea animals and in a vague deification of the forces of nature."

When did you last have a ceremony of thanksgiving for the life around you ?
 

CARREG

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".....a) the ritual slaughter is for human consumption, not sport.

b) it's designed to minimise suffering to the animal

c) such is the concern for the animal and gratitude for its life that prayers are said...."

So its O.K to kill animals in a cruel inhumane manner as long as its for food, I dont think praying over it makes it any less barbaric, how does slitting its throat and letting it bleed to death "minimise suffering"........Ive worked in a slaughterhouse and Ive seen animals with their throats cut lying on the floor bleeding to death it isnt a pretty sight, how any anti can eat meat and call a hunter cruel is beyond me................Carreg
 
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