Contradictions

[flying_change]

Sigh.

Do you ever read what I write ? All of it ? Doesnt look like it. Stop making things up and try responding to what I actually *do* say.

 

[CARREG]

perhaps you need to make it plainer for thick fcukers like me, you always use that excuse someones read it wrong or not paying attention, at the end of the day, you are making excuses for barbaric acts, I know they are barbaric because Ive stood there and watched it being done, tell you what I'll pray over a fox next time I kill 1.............Carreg

 

[severnmiles]

"perhaps you need to make it plainer for thick fcukers like me"

That made me laugh out loud!

 

[flying_change]

Maybe I should make it plainer. No, I'm not making excuses for barbaric acts. Any barbaric act. I'm commenting on the fact that the people who slaughter animals in this way do it for a particular reason. This was the way it was designed 1500 years ago for inhabitants of hot arid regions. Yes, the reason is outmoded. Got it now ?

 

[CARREG]

No no no...what about this lot

BUT....You put a big BUT in there

".....a) the ritual slaughter is for human consumption, not sport.

b) it's designed to minimise suffering to the animal

c) such is the concern for the animal and gratitude for its life that prayers are said...."

please explain what praying has to do with it, and how does slitting its throat minimise suffering..........Carreg

 

[flying_change]

"please explain what praying has to do with it, and how does slitting its throat minimise suffering.........."

Gladly (to the limit of my understanding)

1) praying to my mind reinforces the idea that it's not a sport, is being done in a carefully-planned manner, and is being done in a religious context (ie still not a sport).

2) As a matter of ritual, the killing knife must be perfect and free of nicks. The person doing the slaughter must be trained to deliver "a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus" in *one* cut. This has the effect as follows...
"A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal seizes to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move."

 

[flying_change]

P.S. for 'BUT' read 'BUT there are some other aspects to this method of slaughter that I think should also be remembered'.

 

[Doreys_Mum]

"Actually, I'm a rather liberal if non too quiet supporter of peace, love for all animals and humans,"

"Plus, I'm female... and tory born and bred..."

"to see an end to arrogance and hatred, an end to people not being able to see out of their own digestive system far enough to understand that other people have views and feelings..."


Are you Condoleeza Rice ?

What has any of this crap got to do with a hunting debate?

Because you reach a point where you realise no one is wrong in the hunting debate, everyone is right - because it is right to hold your own opinion, it is right to respect both that opinion and differing opinions, and WRONG to slag people off and belittle their opinions if they are different from you...

 

[Doreys_Mum]

And one hell of a bore!

You're 40 years to late you should have been a Hippie.

Peace , love , dope . Man!

No, no dope for me...

"Oh I wish I was a punk rocker, with flowers in my hair..."

Oh, and on the bore? Takes one to know one...

 

[soggy]

Oh, and on the bore? Takes one to know one...

Not necessarily true. If you have met enough of them you begin to recognise the signs, and I have met quite a few in my time. Thats how I spotted you from a long way back in the boards history.

Bleeding heart liberals are on a par with anti's in my book. Worthless to man and beast.

 

[Karla]

Has anyone noticed that Soggyblah takes particular pleasure in attacking women (pro or anti) on this forum?

 

[soggy]

I show no favour to man, woman or beast.

But in your case I'll make an exception Sweetheart.

 

[severnmiles]

I don't think I've ever ruffled his feathers....yet! Now I feel left out...

*Off to search for Sogs weak spot*

 

[Sidesaddle]

I am feeling left out too. He's never had a go at me either.

Wait for me SM, we can search for it together.

 

[Karla]

"*Off to search for Sogs weak spot*"

Try his brain.

 

[Doreys_Mum]

I'd suggest his groin, but that suggests a penis is present...

I'm flattered actually that Soggy holds me on a par with such prominent and kindhearted forum members such as Mairi!

Oh, and Karla is a man.

 

[Karla]

I'm not! I'm a laydee!

 

[Doreys_Mum]

Okay, Karla is just... SPECIAL...

 

[severnmiles]

Lol! Thats the first time you've made me smile Karla! (sorry Sogs)

I seem to be lol'ing all over the hunting forum this afternoon, keep it up guys...

 

[soggy]

You failed to spot the irony in my post then .

Perhaps I'm just too subtle.

 

[soggy]

I'm not! I'm a laydee!

Your are worm.

 

[Karla]

Yes, terriermen are famed for their sense of irony and subtlety. Just look at Rob Reynolds UK!

 

[soggy]

I'd suggest his groin, but that suggests a penis is present...

Fear not there is one present.

I'm flattered actually that Soggy holds me on a par with such prominent and kindhearted forum members such as Mairi!

You're easily flattered. Whats the prize if someone actually says something complimentary about you. I hate to guess in these morally liberal days.

 

[Fairynuff]

Your are worm. [/quote] ????

 

[Karla]

Another stunner! We should call you Ronald in honour of your employer!

 

[soggy]

Yes, terriermen are famed for their sense of irony and subtlety. Just look at Rob Reynolds UK!

Hello Tony

Where have you been hiding yourself?

 

[Karla]

I bet you say that to all the boys!

 

[soggy]

No. Just to you Tony.

So where have you been hiding?

 

[Karla]

Tony? You surely don't mean Tony Wright?

No, I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not blessed with the name Tony.

 

[soggy]

No, of course you aren't .LOLOL

Catch you later Tony.