Could you condition score this horse for me please? The RSPCA...

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Amaranta said:
OK explain why it was the SAME rug regardless of temperature?

And I do get your point, I would take it more seriously if I had not seen you defend them a little too vigorously in the past, you appear to be blinkered regarding the RSPCA so I assume you yourself work for them in some capacity.
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Because maybe it's a rainsheet, with no filling?!! :confused: And maybe, since OP's friend hadn't taken the rug off til now, the rug actually has recently in the colder weather had another one underneath it, which has now been taken off since it's got warmer. Maybe you are right, maybe it's being terribly neglected. I just don't think it's very sensible for anyone to blindly make assumptions based on one photo of a horse's back with no further info other than a comment an officer made alledgedly, and the fact that it's had a rug on since summer.

And I repeat again, no I don't work for the RSPCA. I support their work because I have had close friends who have worked for them.
 
Moomin1 said:
Because maybe it's a rainsheet, with no filling?!! :confused: And maybe, since OP's friend hadn't taken the rug off til now, the rug actually has recently in the colder weather had another one underneath it, which has now been taken off since it's got warmer. Maybe you are right, maybe it's being terribly neglected. I just don't think it's very sensible for anyone to blindly make assumptions based on one photo of a horse's back with no further info other than a comment an officer made alledgedly, and the fact that it's had a rug on since summer.

And I repeat again, no I don't work for the RSPCA. I support their work because I have had close friends who have worked for them.
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The OP has clearly stated that the rug has never been off, if it was a no fill then the poor animal must have really suffered during that awful cold snap which would have done nothing for it's weight - that alone is a welfare case.

As for making assumptions, I wonder if Carrot and Spud would have had such a happy ending if people had not made assumptions - that was another case were the RSPCA were absolutely useless.
 
undertheweather said:
Please see my above comments in red. To be quite frank I find it hard to believe that people seem to think that it is unacceptable to go about reporting a horse to relevant welfare authorities and when their actions are unacceptable to you striving to get everything possible done for this horse.
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And again, where on earth has anyone said that it is unacceptable to report a horse or go to great lengths to get it sorted?

Nobody here has. They have merely suggested that posting a photo of the back of a horse from above, and providing very little info, which from your answers now, confirm to me that actually you shouldn't be posting any photos of somebody else's horse without gaining more facts.

You don't know who the owner is. You don't know how old the horse is. You don't know if it's under vet treatment. You also assume, just because it has had the same rug on throughout that period of time, that it mustn't have been removed at any point for a vet to have a look. Why could it not have been removed during that time? Has somebody camped out 24/7 and monitored?

Noone has said the condition of this horse is 'ok' on here at all. But the simple fact is that without knowing all the correct details then nobody can ascertain whether it is in fact a neglect case.

This horse for instance may be well into it's 30-40's and reaching the end of it's days, and the vet may well have looked at it, and advised the owner appropriately about when pts should come. None of us from a picture of a horse's back can possibly make a decent judgement on how bright and comfortable the horse is, and a vet may well have decided that it is for now.

Then again of course, you may be completely right. Until anybody knows the full truth and facts then what's the point speculating and going hysterical over it?
 
Amaranta said:
The OP has clearly stated that the rug has never been off, if it was a no fill then the poor animal must have really suffered during that awful cold snap which would have done nothing for it's weight - that alone is a welfare case.

As for making assumptions, I wonder if Carrot and Spud would have had such a happy ending if people had not made assumptions - that was another case were the RSPCA were absolutely useless.
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Please tell me in detail how on earth anybody, without camping out 24/7 can possibly tell if a rug has definately never been removed in that time? It may well, as mentioned in my post which you quoted, have had another rug on underneath which wasn't clearly visible, which has been taken off recently since the weather is a lot warmer. Who knows? Again, none of us do. OP has answered very sketchily to the questions asked, so in actual fact is making an awful lot of assumptions. Those assumptions may be wrong, or they may be right.
 
ozpoz said:
And me. I am disgusted at what some people appear to think is acceptable.
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I repeat again, where has ANYONE said that the horse's condition is ok or acceptable? Seriously?

I suppose people love jumping on bandwagons on here with very little information so that is why nobody is getting the point.:rolleyes:
 
Moomin1 said:
Please tell me in detail how on earth anybody, without camping out 24/7 can possibly tell if a rug has definately never been removed in that time? It may well, as mentioned in my post which you quoted, have had another rug on underneath which wasn't clearly visible, which has been taken off recently since the weather is a lot warmer. Who knows? Again, none of us do. OP has answered very sketchily to the questions asked, so in actual fact is making an awful lot of assumptions. Those assumptions may be wrong, or they may be right.
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I give up - you clearly think that the RSPCA should be given the benefit of the doubt, I do not.

So you, like the RSPCA, seriously think that this horse is in an acceptable condition?

ETA: I see you do not, so please explain your defence of the RSPCA having seen the horse and deeming it acceptable?

I see the point you are making, I just totally disagree with it.
 
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Moomin1 said:
And again, where on earth has anyone said that it is unacceptable to report a horse or go to great lengths to get it sorted?

Nobody here has. They have merely suggested that posting a photo of the back of a horse from above, and providing very little info, which from your answers now, confirm to me that actually you shouldn't be posting any photos of somebody else's horse without gaining more facts.
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The facts are this: This horse, photo taken yesterday, is emaciated. This horse was seen today by the RSPCA who have said that they are not that worried about it. That is hard cold solid fact.

Moomin1 said:
You don't know who the owner is. You don't know how old the horse is. You don't know if it's under vet treatment. You also assume, just because it has had the same rug on throughout that period of time, that it mustn't have been removed at any point for a vet to have a look. Why could it not have been removed during that time? Has somebody camped out 24/7 and monitored?
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I don't give a flying monkey's who the owner is, it could be the Queen for all I care. The horse needs help, and I won't be happy until I am sure it is getting it.

Moomin1 said:
Noone has said the condition of this horse is 'ok' on here at all. But the simple fact is that without knowing all the correct details then nobody can ascertain whether it is in fact a neglect case.

This horse for instance may be well into it's 30-40's and reaching the end of it's days, and the vet may well have looked at it, and advised the owner appropriately about when pts should come. None of us from a picture of a horse's back can possibly make a decent judgement on how bright and comfortable the horse is, and a vet may well have decided that it is for now.

Then again of course, you may be completely right. Until anybody knows the full truth and facts then what's the point speculating and going hysterical over it?
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You are the one speculating about the horse's age, medical condition etc.

I have done no such speculating. The horse is in very poor condition and something needs to change for it to be helped. That is where I stand and I will not move from my spot. If I walked onto a 4* Eventers yard and saw a horse under the same conditions I would report it regardless. The specifics do not matter in the fact that this horse needs help.
 
undertheweather said:
The facts are this: This horse, photo taken yesterday, is emaciated. This horse was seen today by the RSPCA who have said that they are not that worried about it. That is hard cold solid fact.



I don't give a flying monkey's who the owner is, it could be the Queen for all I care. The horse needs help, and I won't be happy until I am sure it is getting it.



You are the one speculating about the horse's age, medical condition etc.

I have done no such speculating. The horse is in very poor condition and something needs to change for it to be helped. That is where I stand and I will not move from my spot. If I walked onto a 4* Eventers yard and saw a horse under the same conditions I would report it regardless. The specifics do not matter in the fact that this horse needs help.
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Good for you OP, thank goodness there are people like you who are willing to take a stand.
 
Patterdale said:
This thread has shocked me undertheweather. This forum is unbelievable at times :(
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PD even im shocked, some one is asking for help... normally people rally round :confused::confused::confused:

op.

tomorrow is a new day deep breath and start again as others have said WHW.. or call the rspca back and well tell them a porker tell them the horse is down.. you dont need to give yr details, you could be a fresh caller.

we all know they are rubbish, make the call, make sure you or friend can be there then alert the local news papers.
 
Amaranta said:
I give up - you clearly think that the RSPCA should be given the benefit of the doubt, I do not.

So you, like the RSPCA, seriously think that this horse is in an acceptable condition?
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OH FGS for the millionth time on this thread (you clearly aren't reading properly tonight!) I HAVE NEVER SAID THE CONDITION OF THIS HORSE IS OK OR ACCEPTABLE. Would you like me to repeat it again, and again, and again?

I have merely said, all along, over and over, that until we KNOW the facts, don't jump to conclusions. And I have also said over and over that yes, the OP may be right, or no, they may be wrong. Not one of us here knows through the information given. Simple.

On that note I am giving up as feel like people don't even bother to read posts properly before jumping to yet more conclusions. :rolleyes:
 
Moomin1 said:
OH FGS for the millionth time on this thread (you clearly aren't reading properly tonight!) I HAVE NEVER SAID THE CONDITION OF THIS HORSE IS OK OR ACCEPTABLE. Would you like me to repeat it again, and again, and again?

I have merely said, all along, over and over, that until we KNOW the facts, don't jump to conclusions. And I have also said over and over that yes, the OP may be right, or no, they may be wrong. Not one of us here knows through the information given. Simple.

On that note I am giving up as feel like people don't even bother to read posts properly before jumping to yet more conclusions. :rolleyes:
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Read my edit :rolleyes:
 
Moomin1 said:
OH FGS for the millionth time on this thread (you clearly aren't reading properly tonight!) I HAVE NEVER SAID THE CONDITION OF THIS HORSE IS OK OR ACCEPTABLE. Would you like me to repeat it again, and again, and again?

I have merely said, all along, over and over, that until we KNOW the facts, don't jump to conclusions. And I have also said over and over that yes, the OP may be right, or no, they may be wrong. Not one of us here knows through the information given. Simple.

On that note I am giving up as feel like people don't even bother to read posts properly before jumping to yet more conclusions. :rolleyes:
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The reason people are getting hot under the collar about your posts Moomin is because you seem entirely disinterested in the horse in question. You seem to be belittling the efforts made to help this horse because we don't know who the owner is etc.

The horse looks crap, face it. Surely that's all that matters?
 
undertheweather said:
It has shocked me too. Well, saddened me mostly.

I guess all publicity is good publicity when it comes to cases like this.

Regardless this horse is being seen tomorrow.
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don't let the blinkered on this thread put you off, the majority of horse lovers are as disgusted as you are.
 
undertheweather said:
The reason people are getting hot under the collar about your posts Moomin is because you seem entirely disinterested in the horse in question. You seem to be belittling the efforts made to help this horse because we don't know who the owner is etc.

The horse looks crap, face it. Surely that's all that matters?
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Nail on head
 
undertheweather said:
The reason people are getting hot under the collar about your posts Moomin is because you seem entirely disinterested in the horse in question. You seem to be belittling the efforts made to help this horse because we don't know who the owner is etc.

The horse looks crap, face it. Surely that's all that matters?
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I'm not in anyway disinterested in the horse in question. I am just not jumping to conclusions based on very little fact and information.

As I keep repeating (yet again), you may well be right, or you may well be wrong.

If you are right, good for you for doing something. If you are wrong, then if I was that horse owner I would be quite aggrieved that an entire public forum had accused me of being neglectful without knowing any fact. That is simply what I am saying.

FWIW I think calling WHW is a good thing, because they can go out and establish that fact. Until then, who are we all on a forum full of strangers to make judgement?
 
piebaldsparkle said:
Whooooa

Where has it stated the rug has NEVER been taken off? It say the horse has been wearing the same rug since the summer.:rolleyes:



We don't ALL have crystal ball!:rolleyes:



OK you check under the rug of EVERY horse you see do you?:rolleyes: The Hay was put out after the visit I believe (though can't be arse to read back and double check).



How would she know this, until the animal visibly looked poorer (without the benefit of your crystal ball that is).:rolleyes:



Because the RSPCA have reported the animal just has muscle wastage from being old and seem to think a big belly is a sign of its well being......:eek:




Perhaps you should read and comprehend before spouting off.;)
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Actually, I think you should go back and read the information given instead of leaping on the RSPCA bashing bandwagon.

The friend knew the rug had not been removed for 6 months. They knew they had only seen the owner once or twice. They knew the environment it was kept in and knew it was looking poor, otherwise why would have have finally taken the rug off ?
Judging by the photo, it didn't lose condition over a couple of days. why did she turn a blind eye for so long ? No crystal ball needed, just observation and concern.

What we don't know, is the animals age, health status and reason for its appearance.

I do know that if some of you saw the 33 year old that shares a field with one of mine, you'd all be rushing to report it to the Not-The-RSPCA. In fact, the horse is bright, active and perfectly happy in her old age.
 
horserider said:
Actually, I think you should go back and read the information given instead of leaping on the RSPCA bashing bandwagon.
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Not leaping on any bandwagon, the OP & friend do not think this horses condition is acceptable the RSPCA (and I assume you), seem to think it is.:(

Why berate the OP (and their friend) at least they have done something!
 
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We were originally given the information that the RSPCA 'officer' involved had said that the horse was in ok condition, as it had a large belly and its prominant bones were merely a sign of age and loss of top line. Those of us who felt that this showed a woeful lack of knowlege have posted to say so. We do not need any more information, if this is a true quote, to believe that the person making that statement was not in a position to judge the state of ANY horse :(
 
YorksG said:
We were originally given the information that the RSPCA 'officer' involved had said that the horse was in ok condition, as it had a large belly and its prominant bones were merely a sign of age and loss of top line. Those of us who felt that this showed a woeful lack of knowlege have posted to say so. We do not need any more information, if this is a true quote, to believe that the person making that statement was not in a position to judge the state of ANY horse :(
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Exactly
 
All I will say on this is that this is potentially a live investigation...the RSPCA won't give all details to the person that reported the suspected issue.

Very clever to only post a picture that cannot identify the horse, but I would think it far more constructive, given the insistence that this is a welfare issue, to call the BHS and WHW and not post conjecture on a open forum.

Do I think the horse looks healthy? No.

Do I think we should be having this discussion with so many unproven factors in a potentially live investigation on an open forum without the consent of the owner or the authority involved? No.

Sometimes trying to prove a point is, well...pointless.

Less chat, more picking up the phone to all welfare organisations and being a pain in their backside until you get somewhere. At least that way, you are not potentially damaging an ongoing investigation.
 
piebaldsparkle said:
Not leaping on any bandwagon, the OP & friend do not think this horses condition is acceptable the RSPCA (and I assume you), seem to think it is.:(

Why berate the OP (and their friend) at least they have done something!
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You don't seem to read and comprehend, my posts indicate that I think the horses' condition needed action. Why berate the RSPCA when the OP or/and her friend had watched the horses decline for months before doing something.

Unless you think it suddenly looked poor overnight. Rug or no rug,the horse was giving cause for concern to anyone with horse knowledge, otherwise they wouldn't have finally removed the rug.

I'm glad the OP is finally doing something.
 
My above comments are not to attack the OP or the efforts the OP or friend are making.

If the RSPCA officer indeed said that, then all the more reason to be snapping at the heels of other organisations to ensure that this officer learns from the mistake if it is one.
 
So after all that - OP please let us know the outcome won't you?
If it is a case of neglect then it will be helped and good for you for doing something - although I still think you overstepped the mark by entering the field, you should leave that to the ones with authority to do it.
Incidentally, I have always found WHW very good in following up reports and calling me back with an update afterwards. In fact they once called me again a second time to report that the owner had done what the officer had recommended and he was satisfied with their response.

I do not like to see even old ponies thin - but if they are eating well and are happy pottering about in retirement, and, like the two 30+ ponies I know can still get down for a roll and to lie down in their stable every night - I personally could not pts just because of the way they looked.

I will be watching for an update and will be congratulating you if it is saved from suffering.
 
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horserider said:
Why berate the RSPCA when the OP or/and her friend had watched the horses decline for months before doing something.
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Because the the RSPCA are the ones saying the horses condition isn't cause for concern!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, how was the OP to know how bad the horse was under the rug (it has been in a rug since the summer)?

It's easy when you are not in the situation to claim you would have acted sooner blah, blah

The OP/friend need a pat on the back for reporting (and I have no doubt they will follow it up), not berating!
 
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