Crate or not?

MurphysMinder

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2006
Messages
18,384
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Well I am going to bow out at this point. It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless. I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.
 

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
The post was about dog crating not about being cruel! cruel is leaving dog chained to a fence outside 24/7 or dumping a dog. I now know that I need to go on Ebay and buy a pen and a crate. I am going ahead with the purchase and if it doesn't work I can always think again and consider a doggy day centre. However I would rather not do this I don't want her to be messed around by other people. It will only be 5 weeks till Easter anyhow so I will see how she is till then.

Well I am going to bow out at this point. It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless. I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.

M_M, you're right, it's a wind-up. No one can be quite that stupid! :D

Alec.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
Well I am going to bow out at this point. It seems that both on this thread and your earlier one about Cavachons you really aren't interested in anyone elses opinion, and are determined to go ahead regardless. I do wonder (and actually really hope) if your posts are wind ups and there isn't a a puppy at all.

You can contact the breeder in Essex if you want! I will post photos in 3 weeks time. I do listen but am not a numpty and I as I said earlier she will have the best home ever with loads of exercise and food and love. Besides my daughter has her heart set on having her and I will not break my promise to her.
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,616
Location
South
Visit site
Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,969
Visit site
I can't abide people giving pets as birthday presents for kids. Anyway, that aside, it is not acceptable to be crating a pup of that age for those lengths of time. But it seems that you don't really care about that, so long as you get a lovely designer pup to hand your daughter on her birthday.
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
I don't dispute that you want this pup but I think that you will struggle to make it work in a way that is fair to the pup and which stacks the odds in your favour such that you are likely to end up with a balanced, well-rounded dog without any behavioural issues. In all honesty, I think you seriously need to rethink whether or not you are currently in a position to take on a young pup and provide it with the quality care that it deserves.

Do you realise how small the bladder is of a 9 week old pup of the type you are considering? That pup needs to be taken outside to toilet EVERY hour; that is after every meal, after every drink, after every play and after every sleep. You will struggle with house training in the set-up that you are considering, in fact, you may never achieve a 100% dry dog at all. So, I hope you are prepared for the daily mess and the chore of washing if the pup soils its bedding as well as the puppy pads.

Of more concern, is the separation anxiety that this pup is likely to develop through being left for such long periods from such an early age. What is your plan when the howling/screaming starts and the neighbours start complaining and as a result are perhaps less keen to be used as dog sitters?

Also, a 9 week old pup being taken to a stables will need SUPERVISING ALL THE TIME. You can not expect it to wander around and keep out of harms way and/or mischief.

Yes, pups do sleep a lot when they are tired as a result of mental stimulation......that is TRAINING and interaction with their owner, other family members and other dogs. To have a well-balanced dog this needs to happen consistantly throughout the day to coincide with their need for regular bursts of activity, their short attention span and need for regular naps. Also, as the pup gets older it will sleep less and less. What you will have on your hands at ten weeks of age will be unrecognisable to what the breeder has at six or seven weeks. So, yes, the pup may sleep an awful lot NOW, but it is amazing how much difference a week can make in the development of these needy little beasts! :)

If you really must get a dog, may I suggest that you consider taking on an adult rescue that is used to being left. I believe that several people on here recommend greyhounds for such circumstance. No responsible breeder worth their salt would entertain selling a pup to someone in the situation that you describe.

If you have found someone who is daft enough/money-grabbing enough to sell you a pup now, please do that pup a favour and cancel - even if it means losing your deposit. Try putting the interests and welfare of the pup before those of your own....oh, and how about this for your daughters present, which would be more appropriate in my view. http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toys/Soft-Toys/Animal-Alley-17-Large-Dog-Soft-Toy(0045564)

You are a teacher you say, therefore you must be educated and reasonably intelligent. You have got a lot of good advice on here from experienced people who honestly have no axe to grind against you personally. The ONLY thing that we all have in common is an interest in the welfare of dogs.

If you REALLY are intent on going ahead in spite of all this advice, PLEASE wait until you can find a litter that is ready to be rehomed at the start of your summer vacation from school. At least that way, the little one will have some chance of settling before being left, rather than being taken away from all its litter mates and one week later being left virtually on its own for the majority of the day.

PS Out of interest, how old is your daughter?
 

Possum

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 November 2013
Messages
454
Visit site
Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.
This. If you're that set on getting this particular puppy, this is the only thing that makes even a modicum of sense. And if your daugter's old enough to get a puppy for her birthday, she's also old enough to understand that you have a responsibility to do the best thing by her, even if it means waiting for a while.
 

Apercrumbie

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 November 2008
Messages
5,404
Location
South-West
Visit site
As a teacher, you have the perfect opportunity for bringing up a puppy every summer. That is the only moment when you will have enough time to properly socialise, train and spend time with your puppy. Our pup is 14 months now and is still too young to be left for the hours you are suggesting. As we are a working family he goes to doggy daycare 2/3 times a week and the other days we make sure someone can pop in at least twice, preferably three times. This isn't excessive by any means - in an ideal world it would be more. Solitary dogs need far more company than you seem to realise. Not only are you being cruel by doing this, you are setting yourself up for serious behavioural problems which could one day endanger your child. You say it could be worse - punching someone in the face is worse than slapping them, doesn't make it right.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
I don't dispute that you want this pup but I think that you will struggle to make it work in a way that is fair to the pup and which stacks the odds in your favour such that you are likely to end up with a balanced, well-rounded dog without any behavioural issues. In all honesty, I think you seriously need to rethink whether or not you are currently in a position to take on a young pup and provide it with the quality care that it deserves.

Do you realise how small the bladder is of a 9 week old pup of the type you are considering? That pup needs to be taken outside to toilet EVERY hour; that is after every meal, after every drink, after every play and after every sleep. You will struggle with house training in the set-up that you are considering, in fact, you may never achieve a 100% dry dog at all. So, I hope you are prepared for the daily mess and the chore of washing if the pup soils its bedding as well as the puppy pads.

Of more concern, is the separation anxiety that this pup is likely to develop through being left for such long periods from such an early age. What is your plan when the howling/screaming starts and the neighbours start complaining and as a result are perhaps less keen to be used as dog sitters?

Also, a 9 week old pup being taken to a stables will need SUPERVISING ALL THE TIME. You can not expect it to wander around and keep out of harms way and/or mischief.

Yes, pups do sleep a lot when they are tired as a result of mental stimulation......that is TRAINING and interaction with their owner, other family members and other dogs. To have a well-balanced dog this needs to happen consistantly throughout the day to coincide with their need for regular bursts of activity, their short attention span and need for regular naps. Also, as the pup gets older it will sleep less and less. What you will have on your hands at ten weeks of age will be unrecognisable to what the breeder has at six or seven weeks. So, yes, the pup may sleep an awful lot NOW, but it is amazing how much difference a week can make in the development of these needy little beasts! :)

If you really must get a dog, may I suggest that you consider taking on an adult rescue that is used to being left. I believe that several people on here recommend greyhounds for such circumstance. No responsible breeder worth their salt would entertain selling a pup to someone in the situation that you describe.

If you have found someone who is daft enough/money-grabbing enough to sell you a pup now, please do that pup a favour and cancel - even if it means losing your deposit. Try putting the interests and welfare of the pup before those of your own....oh, and how about this for your daughters present, which would be more appropriate in my view. http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Toys/Soft-Toys/Animal-Alley-17-Large-Dog-Soft-Toy(0045564)

You are a teacher you say, therefore you must be educated and reasonably intelligent. You have got a lot of good advice on here from experienced people who honestly have no axe to grind against you personally. The ONLY thing that we all have in common is an interest in the welfare of dogs.

If you REALLY are intent on going ahead in spite of all this advice, PLEASE wait until you can find a litter that is ready to be rehomed at the start of your summer vacation from school. At least that way, the little one will have some chance of settling before being left, rather than being taken away from all its litter mates and one week later being left virtually on its own for the majority of the day.

PS Out of interest, how old is your daughter?

I don't want a greyhound we have 2 cats. My neighbours are more like my best friends and have supported me getting a puppy. If she howls or cries one of them will go in and make sure she is ok. There are lots of friendly dogs at the yard and yes she will be supervised while at the stables. My daughter is 8. I realise that you all have the interest of the welfare of the puppy and I can see how I might be coming across. As I said previously I will try for the first 5 weeks and then go from there.
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
As I said previously I will try for the first 5 weeks and then go from there.

What? And then dump her in a rescue when it goes pear shaped??

That's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

BTW...greyhounds can be fine with cats as others on here will testify. Greyhound trust cat tests before rehoming.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
I can't abide people giving pets as birthday presents for kids. Anyway, that aside, it is not acceptable to be crating a pup of that age for those lengths of time. But it seems that you don't really care about that, so long as you get a lovely designer pup to hand your daughter on her birthday.

I don't think you should be this personal tbh. My daughter has had a very tough time recently and has been really ill. So yes she can have a puppy for her birthday. At the end of the day its my decision. My daughter has lots more tests at hospital coming up and as soon as we saw the puppy and she knows she is having her for her birthday she has really cheered up.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
Why not ask the breeder to keep her for you until Easter? The pup will be a bit older (8 weeks is awful young to leave the litter), and you'llget a fortnight to help settle her in to a routine.

Yes Amy May I did think of this but Breeder is going away and they are all sold and going before the end of Feb.
 

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,959
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
Yes Amy May I did think of this but Breeder is going away and they are all sold and going before the end of Feb.

Probably going on a cruise with all the dosh she has earned, OP Ive never seen a thread like this where everyone is saying the same thing, there are a lot of experienced dog people on here, youve asked for advice and like buying the Cavachon thread you have discounted it, as a teacher I find that very concerning. We cant force you to do anything but try you will be causing this lonely little puppy untold harm. I know you said your daughter is ill but even so that is no excuse for overlooking the welfare of this poor little puppy.

Please have the good sense to either have someone coming in 3/4 times a day or better still wait until the summer holidays.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
What? And then dump her in a rescue when it goes pear shaped??

That's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

BTW...greyhounds can be fine with cats as others on here will testify. Greyhound trust cat tests before rehoming.

er no! I will find a puppy day centre! she will never be dumped!
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
OP....this is SERIOUSLY not the time to be buying a puppy. You work as a teacher, which, depending on the level and OFSTED grading, can necessitate a LOT of out of hours work and stress. You have a horse/pony presumably as you say you go to the stables. You also have a poorly child.

That child is asking for a puppy. Do you know what one of the best lessons in life was that I was taught at an early age by my parents? It was 'I want, doesn't get.' If your child is seriously ill (I do hope not) then the last thing in the world you need is a puppy. If you want/need to give your child a puppy fix there are ways around this WITHOUT the responsibility of dog ownership.

If you seriously wish to consider this I would be happy to have a conversation with you via PM or even phone.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
Probably going on a cruise with all the dosh she has earned, OP Ive never seen a thread like this where everyone is saying the same thing, there are a lot of experienced dog people on here, youve asked for advice and like buying the Cavachon thread you have discounted it, as a teacher I find that very concerning. We cant force you to do anything but try you will be causing this lonely little puppy untold harm. I know you said your daughter is ill but even so that is no excuse for overlooking the welfare of this poor little puppy.

Please have the good sense to either have someone coming in 3/4 times a day or better still wait until the summer holidays.

Funny you should say that yes she is actually going on a cruise! I will try her crated and a pen till Easter then if she is unhappy make arrangements for a puppy day centre I do have the names of 2 in the area. Summer is not a option for me as going away with my daughter if she is well enough for 3 weeks.
 

galaxy

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 September 2006
Messages
5,959
Location
Bucks
Visit site
You say IF the puppy howls or cries. There's no if... She is going to scream blue murder. She will never have been left alone before and then at 9 weeks old she will be left for at least 7 hours a day with someone visiting in the middle. When she is quiet she will probably be destroying something. Just hope it doesn't cause her any harm. You will be coming home to mess every day.

Edited to add... Pups will only sleep all day when trained to and are suitably tired and content, just like a baby. This pup will be distressed and worried. She won't sleep.

Poor pup.
 
Last edited:

MyBoyChe

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2008
Messages
4,588
Location
N. Bucks
Visit site
Im sorry but the more of this thread I read, the more I think that you really dont have the time for a dog right now. You are a teacher, you have a sick child and a horse. The pup will sleep a lot, thats true, but only for the first few weeks. Like a baby, as they get older they require more stimulation to keep them occupied, what are you going to do then? When are you going to fit in the 2 walks a day the pup will need as a minimum once it is a little bit older? I know the dog is for your daughter, I dont know the nature of her illness but will she be able to do the walking and even if she can, at 8 years old would you want her to go off on her own? I dont think you have really thought through the whole thing going forward, this is a 10 year + commitment if all goes well. Of course, there's always preloved if it doesnt work out :(
 

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,959
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
Funny you should say that yes she is actually going on a cruise! I will try her crated and a pen till Easter then if she is unhappy make arrangements for a puppy day centre I do have the names of 2 in the area. Summer is not a option for me as going away with my daughter if she is well enough for 3 weeks.

How will you know if she is unhappy, you will not be there to see it, as Amymay said this is a heartbreaking thread.
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
OP...you say you will try for the first five weeks.....my last response was a tad flippant, I know, so apologies. However, have you ever heard of classical conditioning and operant conditioning? Suggest you google to understand just how important those first few weeks are in the life of your pup.
 

Lucyloo25

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 December 2014
Messages
61
Location
Worcester/Wolverhampton
Visit site
Who is looking after the pup whilst you are away?
If you're so determined you should be looking into pet sitters or doggy daycare now ready for when you get the pup so it has that important socialisation and can have some routine! It's not all that different to a baby! Would you have left your daughter on her own at 9 weeks old with only an hour of contact for a full working day, I know it's slightly different BUT not that different, puppy's need training, toilet training, socialisation and love!
I feel whatever is said you will ignore or argue with but surely someone you know can talk some sense into you, have you spoke to your local vets they often have advertisements of people who will puppy sit or mind the puppy!
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
OP...you say you will try for the first five weeks.....my last response was a tad flippant, I know, so apologies. However, have you ever heard of classical conditioning and operant conditioning? Suggest you google to understand just how important those first few weeks are in the life of your pup.
apology accepted I do know that they should have company if possible and yes maybe I have let my heart rule my head but I am confident that it will work out.
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
It seems to be Amy May but really not my intention. If you knew me personally you would know that the puppy will have the best life ever.

Actually, the pup will have one HELL of bl""dy awful life. That is probably not your intent...that I do believe....but believe me, that will be the outcome based on what you have posted here. If you are any sort of animal lover, don't do it.
 

irishdraft

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2009
Messages
1,868
Visit site
OP having read this thread I do wonder if it is the right course of action in getting a puppy for your sick daughter, having a 18 month old terrier the puppy time is still fresh in my mind, something no one has mentioned is that young puppies usually need 4 meals a day then need to be taken outside for toiletting I'm not sure how one visit from your neighbour in your working hours is going to achieve this. As others have said it is a vital time in a puppies life & they really do need people with them for the majority of the time. My pup was certainly not asleep for this length of time , he slept at night, in the day he was eating, pooing, playing with our other dogs & chewing up anything he could get his teeth into.I am lucky enough to have my horses at home but no way would I have had my pup around when I was dealing with them, he would be secure in his crate.
 

hihosilver

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2010
Messages
1,420
Location
south East
Visit site
Who is looking after the pup whilst you are away?
If you're so determined you should be looking into pet sitters or doggy daycare now ready for when you get the pup so it has that important socialisation and can have some routine! It's not all that different to a baby! Would you have left your daughter on her own at 9 weeks old with only an hour of contact for a full working day, I know it's slightly different BUT not that different, puppy's need training, toilet training, socialisation and love!
I feel whatever is said you will ignore or argue with but surely someone you know can talk some sense into you, have you spoke to your local vets they often have advertisements of people who will puppy sit or mind the puppy!

yes this is something I will look in to.
 

gunnergundog

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 August 2010
Messages
3,457
Visit site
apology accepted I do know that they should have company if possible and yes maybe I have let my heart rule my head but I am confident that it will work out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............google the terms I quoted please and TRY and understand this from the point of view of the living, breathing puppy.
 
Top