Crate or not?

Merlin11 said:
I got a puppy last summer after I had given up work. Had wanted one for a long time but waited until I could give it the time needed. I knew they were a lot of work but was still surprised at just how much attention they need. She needed out at least ever hour and I was glad I got her in summer as it was easier to spend a lot of time with her in the garden. It felt like having a baby/toddler again. I think it will be very difficult for you to give it the time it needs. They just want to be with you all the time. She is 8 months now and she is only left for 3-4 hours a day at most. I have used a crate and found it great. She goes in it when I am out and at night. I think she would dislike the crate though if she was put in it for as long as you are planning so not sure that this would work.
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Over the past 25 years or so I've raised six dogs to date - (one dog - the fifth I got at 10 months so he was already done all the hard stuff). And I work with dogs for a living - and even I still found it hard raising the last one. Some are needier than others, but they ALL demand attention and training and care. Novices think it must be easy, shove them in a crate and all is okay.

I use a crate now and again but rarely in the house. Mine will spend all day in the crate at shows except when they're being groomed or in the ring. They sometimes have to be crated at various other times. However they all have to learn to be in it at some point. If they have to go to the vet for example - for something routine like dental work - they have to be in a kennel pre and post anaesthetic. How stressful if the dog has never been in one to suddenly be in one at a scary place like the vets?
 
I should probably add that I don't expect the crate to be long term. Just for the puppy stage. When she is a bit older and calmer I would just leave her in the kitchen when I go out and at night.
 
But surely as it is only a small dog it doesn't require socialisation or training? Not like a big dog would.
(JOKING!).
 
MurphysMinder said:
I just hope that, as my earlier suspicion, this is a wind up post, otherwise some poor pup has a miserable time ahead of her. :(
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No why on earth would it be? she will be absolutely fine. I am going ahead and breeder has said that as long as she has a visit in the daytime it will be fine to do what I am doing. For the first week I will be with her and then the second week I will leave school at 3.30 so I will be back at 4.
 
hihosilver said:
No why on earth would it be? she will be absolutely fine. I am going ahead and breeder has said that as long as she has a visit in the daytime it will be fine to do what I am doing. For the first week I will be with her and then the second week I will leave school at 3.30 so I will be back at 4.
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Because as you've been told a hundred times, this pup will have never been left alone for a moment before and now you will be leaving it for 7 hours + a day. Even with the neighbour popping in this is far from 'fine' the poor thing is going to be distraught. Keep telling yourself it's all fine, but you've never had a puppy and all these people on here aren't just being mean, we've had puppies. We know.

Eta. A decent breeder wouldn't even let you have a puppy if you were leaving it like this. No rescue would either.
 
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Alec Swan said:
Have you not yet realised that the puppy concerned (assuming that it even exists!), is the last thing to receive the OP's considerations? :D

Alec.
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Alec I am a caring person. I will do the best I can for the pup. My daughter is my number one priority and we both are really excited and cant wait till we go and get her home.
 
OP youve been outed, clear off wasting peoples time, dont bother posting again, I can imagine your next posts, what do I feed my puppy/ why is my puppy mouthing all the time,I cant house train my puppy. Once again you will be given lots of good advice and you will continue to argue against it because that is what TROLLS do.

Anyone want to speculate what her next post will be lol.
 
Ive just popped back on to this thread, surprised to find it still trundling along, I thought it had been decided the OP was a troll!! If it is real then Im still as saddened as I was last night to think of a pup being brought into a set up as described. Havent read all the posts since last night but has the OP said anywhere how she intends to fit the time the pup will need into her obviously busy life (ill child, horse, job) etc. I know few of us are in the 'perfect' position to be dog owners but this really doesnt sound even half perfect, and whilst I dont give a flying fig for how much cleaning up and time the OP is going to need to do/find, I am so upset for a pup I dont even know being forced into an ill thought out routine. Surely she is having us on!
 
hihosilver said:
Alec I am a caring person. I will do the best I can for the pup. My daughter is my number one priority and we both are really excited and cant wait till we go and get her home.
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Correction for you; Accepting that other than having a bit of fun, you're a care-less person. Your daughter's claimed for needs and dreams are taking precedence, over an impending problem which will almost certainly impact upon her, eventually. You continue to contradict those who clearly, are vastly more experienced than you are, and as you now claim to be a teacher, I just wonder if you take the same pig-headed approach to your pupils, as you do to the other questions which you continue to raise!

I'm with Dobiegirl on this one, and will watch with a degree of prediction, for your future problems. Your Trolling efforts are commendable, I'd say. :D

Alec.
 
Dobiegirl said:
OP youve been outed, clear off wasting peoples time, dont bother posting again, I can imagine your next posts, what do I feed my puppy/ why is my puppy mouthing all the time,I cant house train my puppy. Once again you will be given lots of good advice and you will continue to argue against it because that is what TROLLS do.

Anyone want to speculate what her next post will be lol.
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I can post what I want and when I want. My post was about crating my puppy not about leaving her at home. I agree I have been given lots of good advice about the crating and a play pen which I have ordered for her. I am not a troll but that's fine if you think I am. I don't really care what you think tbh.
 
amymay said:
Op, Why doesn't the person who looks after your daughter in the day also take care of the puppy?
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My daughter is currently being phased back into school. This means that she goes from 9 and stays till lunchtime, She has 1-1 support. She then goes to her child carer ( been looking after her since she was 2) I usually pick her up at 5. We go to the stables 3 times a week in the evening. I have recently put my horse on part livery so we just go and see him. I have lots of support and a friend rides him in the week for me mainly hacking. When possible I ride at weekends. It is a possibility that the child carer could have the puppy in the afternoon if she gets on with her older dog.
 
Ah right.

Well I'd definitely speak to the breeders about keeping the pup until Easter. Presumably, despite going on holiday, they have someone looking after their dog(s), so it ahould be quite easy to arrange. Plus they're bound to have had contingencies in place in case some of the pups didn't sell (well you would, wouldn't you?).
 
Alec Swan said:
Correction for you; Accepting that other than having a bit of fun, you're a care-less person. Your daughter's claimed for needs and dreams are taking precedence, over an impending problem which will almost certainly impact upon her, eventually. You continue to contradict those who clearly, are vastly more experienced than you are, and as you now claim to be a teacher, I just wonder if you take the same pig-headed approach to your pupils, as you do to the other questions which you continue to raise!

I'm with Dobiegirl on this one, and will watch with a degree of prediction, for your future problems. Your Trolling efforts are commendable, I'd say. :D

Alec.
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^^^^ Well said Alec.

We will no doubt see this sad little pup come up on Preloved or one of the other websites in a wee while; under the heading "puppy for sale as daughter developed allergy to it"........ :(

OP - a word of advice: go and buy a budgie instead; or better still a cat, who'd waste no time in telling it what it thought of you and ditch you PDQ for better digs.
 
amymay said:
Ah right.

Well I'd definitely speak to the breeders about keeping the pup until Easter. Presumably, despite going on holiday, they have someone looking after their dog(s), so it ahould be quite easy to arrange. Plus they're bound to have had contingencies in place in case some of the pups didn't sell (well you would, wouldn't you?).
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I will check with the breeder today and see if she can keep the puppy till the Easter holidays.
 
OP, just a thought that I don't think has been raised as yet. If you are 'lucky' enough to get a pup who will sleep while you're at work and your neighbour is not there (as the breeder has suggested) then you will have a pup who has 'day' and 'night' back to front. So you will need to expect regular disturbed nights with a wide-awake energetic puppy. Is this something that you and your daughter will be able to cope with? It's not at all realistic to expect a puppy to have only three short active spells per day (before work, lunch, after work) and then sleep through the night imo.

I think amymay's suggestion of asking the breeder to keep her on till easter is the best, if you are determined to have this pup...

Fwiw, I know people who have successfully managed to raise pups while working full time, BUT they have started with older pups (12 weeks at least) and have arranged things so that someone can be at home full time for at least the first four weeks. Like others have said, you're setting yourself up for failure with your current plan, potentially leading to a very stressed, anxious puppy.
 
amymay said:
Sorry hihosilver, I know you really want this pup - but I simply don't think your set up for one.

It's simply awful to think of such a young pup spending so much time alone.
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Frankly disgusting. :(


hihosilver said:
I know how hard work puppies can be and in a ideal world she would not have to be left, however she will be loved and eventually have a dog walker- a lot of dogs have so much worse x
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Oh, so it's ok that the puppy will be poorly treated because there are others worse off? Christ, unbelievable. This poor scrap did not knock on your door demanding to come in. :( I waited 10 years to be in the right house and job situation to ensure the pups had me for six weeks then the neighbour three times a day or the OH at home.

hihosilver said:
I don't think you should be this personal tbh. My daughter has had a very tough time recently and has been really ill. So yes she can have a puppy for her birthday. At the end of the day its my decision. My daughter has lots more tests at hospital coming up and as soon as we saw the puppy and she knows she is having her for her birthday she has really cheered up.
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So presumably lots of time at hospital, leaving the puppy alone again??


hihosilver said:
There is no law either about leaving a dog alone for 5 hours!
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You will have an unsocialised, dirty, sad little puppy. Dreadful. This thread has really upset me. That poor dog. I guarantee the sire and dam have zero health tests and the price is good and elevated for a cross breed puppy with a stupid made up name. Utterly depressing reading.
 
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Happiness is NOT wanting something and getting it, op. It is about feeling good about yourself by knowing that you can put another's needs before your own and never riding roughshod over another being for your own satisfaction. Now that is something worth teaching a child. I am sure you want your child to be happy , not merely to satisfy a wish that could so easily turn sour when the pup cries, messes endlessly and chews toys and furniture as is likely to happen? And ends up preferring the company of your neighbour to that of your daughter?

You have focused your daughter's hopes of happiness on this pup. I can understand your desperate desire to see her smile, any mother would feel the same. BUT this is the wrong solution, it is short-termist and potentially harmful, not just to the pup but to your daughter. She is eight. She is old enough to reason, to watch and to draw conclusions. She will realise if the pup is not developing as it should, she will suffer a huge disappointment if her pup turns out to be dirty, destructive and possibly badly socialised and nervy. Instead of being a long-term joy, it will become the disappointment of her young life. You need to present all this to her gently and help her accept that her happiness can be deferred for the good of the pup if you cannot ensure it will have the attention and stimulation all babies need, even animal ones, to grow up normally. Could you take her to a good rescue centre, like your nearest DogsTrust, to learn about caring about the animals, even if she can only watch? If you first explain to her that everybody has to learn about looking after an animal before getting one. She will learn that pups scratch, bite and poop and need endless care. She will also pick up on the desperate plight of the animals whose lives have gone wrong. I know it will not be the instant, fleeting cheering up you or her wanted but it will make her a happier, worthier individual in the long run. And a stronger one. If she is ill, she needs to develop her inner resources, fast, and it is your job to help her. That is the one thing that will help her cope with what life is throwing at her.

I am sorry this sounds preachy. If it is any comfort, put it down to my already long life and the endless mistakes I made before learning how to be happy. I wish you and your daughter the very best life can give.
 
cinnamontoast said:
You will have an unsocialised, dirty, sad little puppy. Dreadful. This thread has really upset me. That poor dog. I guarantee the sire and dam have zero health tests and the price is good and elevated for a cross breed puppy with a stupid made up name. Utterly depressing reading.
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I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.
 
RunToEarth said:
I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.
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That is appalling, particularly with a whippet who are such amenable little souls :( :(
 
What I would really love is for OP sold to someone who forced her to spend several hours a day on her own, locked in a small crate, seeing no one, and treading in her own mess and of course never seeing the sun or feeling the grass under her feet just staring at a blank wall all day, day after day. Following this I would like to see her released from the crate in the evenings, when she was probably exhausted from loneliness, and played with intensely until the novelty wore off and then she would be put back in her cage again. But hey she might not appeal to anyone as she is possibly the wrong colour. Get a life OP and give that poor little puppy one or are you just too selfish!
 
Hoping this is a wind-up! Where are you OP, maybe someone could recommend a good dogsitter or doggy day care near you? How happy will your daughter be when the puppy is keeping her up at night because she has been deprived of attention all day?
I still don't think any good breeder would be happy for one of their pups to go to this kind of home. Maybe you could get your daughter a rabbit or hamster or something which isn't such high maintenance? :)
 
Quite apart from the fact an 8 week old puppy is almost a full time job and no way would I have taken on a puppy in your circumstances OP I would worry that the puppy will not live up to the expectations of an 8 year old child.
My youngest daughters were 5 and 7 when we collected our Vizsla pup, they were SO excited to be getting this absolutely gorgeous ginger wrinkly puppy that they had been looking at pictures of for weeks before we collected him. However after a couple of weeks of incessant 'mouthing' of feet and hands with his needle sharp puppy teeth and his pathological obsession with retrieving and destroying their favourite cuddly toys they were somewhat less enamoured of him!!
Our boy is now 13 months old and the girls love him to bits but as a pup he was HARD work - myself and my eldest daughter and my hubby shuffled work/horses/going out to ensure he was never left alone for more than an hour max as a pup. I honestly do not know how we would have house trained him otherwise. I'm sorry but the whole thing sounds like a recipe for disaster to me :(
Edited to add - he was left for an hour max once per day a 2 or 3 times a week - not multiple times daily.
 
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Lucyloo25 said:
Hoping this is a wind-up! Where are you OP, maybe someone could recommend a good dogsitter or doggy day care near you? How happy will your daughter be when the puppy is keeping her up at night because she has been deprived of attention all day?
I still don't think any good breeder would be happy for one of their pups to go to this kind of home. Maybe you could get your daughter a rabbit or hamster or something which isn't such high maintenance? :)
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and even still, the pup wouldn't be able to go to a day care center until jabs completed I'd imagine.
 
RunToEarth said:
I agree, I've been thinking about this thread this evening whilst snuggling with my puppy. The most depressing thing is that OP's attitude is so common - my colleague leaves her whippet crated from 8am-6pm with a half an hour walk for five days a week, it's just heartbreaking.
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God, I feel bad enough leaving ours together 8 - 5 with two dog walker visits.....
 
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