Crosses that just don't work

JJS

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I've just seen another of the numerous posts on sales sites that advertise a cob crossed with a Friesian, and I simply can't work out why people do it. Although I'm sure there are some lovely mixes out there who buck the trend, I've yet to see one, with most appearing to have oversized heads and oddly long, scrawny necks and bodies. Nor have I seen a single good example of cobs crossed with warmbloods, which seems to be another new fad. I honestly think that these crosses are done simply because cobs are cheap, and warmbloods and Friesians are in vogue right now, making the offspring economical to breed but more marketable when aimed at novice buyers.

Does anyone else see some of the new crosses around and wonder why, or am I the only one? There are lots of fantastic old-fashioned mixes, but the abundance of backyard breeders appear to prefer getting hold of a fashionable stallion and just letting it run with poorly conformed coloured cob mares to get youngsters with no real utility. It all seems rather sad to me, especially for all of the resultant ponies who appear doomed to conformational issues down the line because of a lack of foresight on the parts of those who've bred them.

And no, I'm certainly not a breed purist or a Gypsy Cob hater, as these two prove, so if I've noticed it, I'm sure other people must have too!

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AFB

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Yes definitely, I wish there could be some form of regulation behind breeding (although practically can't see a way that would work) to force people to actually consider what they're putting together.

Example that really irks me is a local physio that had a mare that was utterly b***ocksed at an early age and decided she'd just stick it in foal - someone that really should have known better!
 

milliepops

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Lol, this smells like a thread that could go wrong as people defend their weird crosses! :lol:
I agree in general, there are some odd animals about and you have to wonder whether they will be useful horses in the end or not...

that's my 2p, now to defend cob x WB, I am rather fond of mine and I would have another... irish bog pony x Hann :D:D:D

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JJS

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Lol, this smells like a thread that could go wrong as people defend their weird crosses! :lol:
I agree in general, there are some odd animals about and you have to wonder whether they will be useful horses in the end or not...

I do hope it doesn't take that turn, but can see how it might! To explain a little more, I do mean the crosses that have been thrown together purely as a money-making scheme, even though the parents have nothing in them to complement each other. Well-selected parents of both of the crosses I used as examples have the potential to be lovely, as your gorgeous pony proves, but there seems to be a trend to focus on something other than confirmation for a certain type of breeder.

I have a Gypsy Cob x Welsh D baby myself, so I know how nice these sorts of crosses can be. Unfortunately, the type you see on the market at the moment are over-priced, poor representations, which is hardly setting them up to have a good life. Hopefully that bit of clarification will stop the thread from derailing or becoming too contentious *crosses fingers* :D
 

ihatework

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I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the cob x warm blood having seen a number of good examples in my time!
 

JJS

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I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the cob x warm blood having seen a number of good examples in my time!

As I said, I do know that there will be some fantastic examples out there, but I primarily mean the type that are always being advertised on Facebook. Being honest, I suspect that many of them don't have a drop of warmblood in them anyway - it's all about making them marketable by being able to use warmblood or Friesian (or any other fashionable breed) in the title of an advert.
 

Micropony

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I suppose the thing with crosses is people do it hoping for the best of both, but there will always be some out there that get the worst of both. I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.
 

SEL

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Perhaps the thread should be a 'why the h3ll would you let that reproduce?' rather than focusing on particular types? There was a bit of run on FB a while back of mares who were out of work being passed on as 'potential broodmare'. Most of the time I couldn't see why you would want a foal out of them, but there was always interest.

I'll throw my draft x appy mare into the mix. She was bred for meat so we'll forgive her her many shortcomings, but the only plus about breeding from her is I'd get a spotty foal - and I like spots. BUT that is the only plus, so I'm afraid she'll have to continue safely flirting with the geldings!
 

SEL

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I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.

I used to ride one of those! He was a good looking boy, but a hot headed tank. Selling him onto a 16 stone guy who wanted to hunt was the best thing that could have happened.
 

TandD

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At home we have a friesian x cob or shire, can't work out which.
I'll admit he looks like 2 horses put together: huge head, chunky legs with a small friesian body and high thick neck.
Not really pretty to look at and Defo not show worthy. His head is handsome thought! Jet black with 4 knee high socks and a lovely blaze.

However do I care? Not really! He's a hack for my mum and he looks after her 100%. Yes he's got his conformational faults but he's not doing an event, he's just plodding about.

With the life he has lived pulling tourist wagons in Ireland he's as bomb proof as you could get....i doubt I could find a warmblood or smart cob as laid back as he is. For us the cross works, he's safe, reliable and such a good friend for a hack out with mum!



Edit to add he's about 20 years old so it's not a new breeding thing!
 

JJS

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Perhaps the thread should be a 'why the h3ll would you let that reproduce?' rather than focusing on particular types? There was a bit of run on FB a while back of mares who were out of work being passed on as 'potential broodmare'. Most of the time I couldn't see why you would want a foal out of them, but there was always interest.

Maybe so, but it's this particular trend for throwing 'fashionable' breeds into the mix that seems to be particularly prevalent at the minute. I guess that what I was really wondering was whether anybody else has noticed this ploy by backyard breeders, or whether it just seemed to be happening in my own little corner of Facebook!
 

ihatework

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Maybe so, but it's this particular trend for throwing 'fashionable' breeds into the mix that seems to be particularly prevalent at the minute. I guess that what I was really wondering was whether anybody else has noticed this ploy by backyard breeders, or whether it just seemed to be happening in my own little corner of Facebook!

I think Facebook adverts throw up many examples of poor horses, be those tb, wb, cobs, draught, native or any mongrels of the above.
 

Casey76

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I knew of a comtois x arab... poor thing had a comtois body with arab legs and head. She always looked completely out of proportion (very over topped), especially with an arab head on a comtois neck!
 

gunnergundog

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I suppose the thing with crosses is people do it hoping for the best of both, but there will always be some out there that get the worst of both. I have met a few shire x tb like that - a stereotypical wired TB brain in the body of a brick outhouse probably wasn't what the breeder was aiming for! But it can also be a very useful cross when it works.

For those of a certain age, you may recall there were two successful GP dressage horses that were TB x Shire (Walter and Giddy) plus numerous heavy hunters. :)
 

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Quite honestly I am surprised on a daily basis at the rubbish which appears on FB and Preloved...not so much the badly bred beasts themselves but the prices people are asking, and the number of people who appear to be desperate to buy them (apparently unseen).
 

MotherOfChickens

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I knew someone back in the 90s that was crossing Clydies with arabs. all smartened up they actually looked pretty nice but crikey, they were an erm, interesting ride and I like arabs generally just not 17.2h ones. another cross that was being deliberately bred were my two favourite breeds-I'll not say anymore as I know one owner used to frequent the forum but they were pug ugly and must have been impossible to keep the weight off with that cross.

I'm not a big fan of WBs x Iberians although I have seen some very nice ones. I am a bit of a purist-if you want something that rides like a luso, buy a luso-ditto WBs. There are plenty of breeds already that are something in the middle.
 

only_me

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Is Ben hobdays horse not a Clydesdale x tb? He's an experienced 4* event horse even with those massive feet :p

I hate fresians in general, can't understand why anyone wants to ride them. Lovely as carriage horses, but not under saddle. Saw a 4 Fresian horse team pulling at a funeral the other day which is really rare here.
I do wonder what a fresian x Lippizaner (or Iberian) cross would be like, as similar movements but slightly different body. Would it produce a more rideable hose do you think?
 

Breagha

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I bought a yearling (unseen) just found the markings on her interesting. Got told she was WBxID to make 15'2. I got in touch with her breeders in Cumbria and her mum was a 14'2 welsh x something type and her dad was a clyde x with some form of cob - so she is seriously Heinz but she was easy to back, boomproof and does well showing with her cob neck :D
 

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Funny how we are all different, I think the baroque pintos are stunning!

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I do think there can be good and bad examples of any cross though. For example a draught crossed with something lighter that ends up with a substantial body on scrawny legs.
 

turnbuckle

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I know many people swear by them, but almost all the ShirexTB (not many I admit) I have known have had a filthy temper.

Equally, I love the idea of a HighlandxTB but they seem very few and far between, which suggests it may be not be a winner....
 

JJS

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Funny how we are all different, I think the baroque pintos are stunning!

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I do think there can be good and bad examples of any cross though. For example a draught crossed with something lighter that ends up with a substantial body on scrawny legs.

You see, these are the elusive good examples that I was talking about, the difference being that I doubt some backyard breeder threw together a Friesian stallion imported after not making the grade and a poorly conformed Gypsy Cob mare to get them.

Also, for those saying how fantastic TB x Clyde or Shire can be, I agree. But that's an old-fashioned cross and not one that you see being advertised all over Facebook by less than savoury characters.
 
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There was a very, very good heavyweight show cob who won a hell of a lot, he may still be going, that was a TB father and a Percheon mother. Couldn't have asked for a better put together horse.
 

HufflyPuffly

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I think mostly the bad crosses are from those who take popular breeds and cross them for nothing other than to get an AxB...

Most Friesian crosses (and Friesians in general :eek3: sorry :eek:) that I have seen, are badly put together and will never be a 'nice' ride with how they are put together. I say this as someone who owns two crosses, my defense is that they both have half Hackney in there, so it's clearly the Hackney I like :lol:.

People do not seem to be able to be objective about their own horses and don't seem to see the flaws that are practically hitting them in the face. Even if they breed to that amazing XYZ stallion the foal still has all those genetics from it's mum to contend with...

Both of mine were bred specifically to do a job, that job may have been to be a carriage horse but actually both are very nice to ride with the more bonkers put together one now out at adv med and can jump the moon. Neither are a 'novice' ride as Hackney's are renown for being very hot, so they are not for everyone! I think they both turned out ok as they were bred with work in mind, so strong legs (and feet) and a strong body were a must for them, so I assume their parents were picked for these sort of qualities.
 
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Annagain

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My friend has a Welsh x Warmblood. He has both the best and worst of both breeds. Stubborn, ridiculously clingy to other horses, stupidly neurotic which I put down to the Welsh (has come out of the jockey door of a trailer twice - in sheer temper) and the most impatient horse I've ever met. He's also very handsome, a beautiful mover, incredibly intelligent and jumps like a stag which is probably a combination of the two. He's a total wimp weather wise and will shiver for hours if he even gets mildly damp which is obviously the Warmblood in him. Weight drops off him at the slightest stress and he'll stop eating at the drop of a hat (he HAS to be turned out first in winter or his world is turned upside down). He grows no winter coat but has feathers that have to be trimmed at least once a fortnight! He was out winning at BE intermediate until 2 years ago and still does open Riding Club stuff and does it bloomin' well too!
 

ester

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I do wonder what a fresian x Lippizaner (or Iberian) cross would be like, as similar movements but slightly different body. Would it produce a more rideable hose do you think?

x iberian is called a warlander, they are pretty popular.

I agree with alaina, often if you get all the good bits of a cross you are quids in, if you get the wrong body on the opposite legs, or the ditzy half of the brain you're not.
 

Yubbie

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Turnbuckle - my ShirexTB has the most calm, laid back & good nature, I've never ever experienced any type of 'filthy temper' from him - just shows you how different horses can be!!
 

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I had a welsh D X TB. The most stunning animal I've ever seen, he seriously used to turn heads. But he had inherited the worst traits from both breeds. He was hilarious though, such a character and actually really easy to back and bring on, but he was sharp and when that switch in his head went, there was not much that you could do.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I know many people swear by them, but almost all the ShirexTB (not many I admit) I have known have had a filthy temper.

Equally, I love the idea of a HighlandxTB but they seem very few and far between, which suggests it may be not be a winner....

I've only known a couple of Shire x TBs and they've not been easy rides-very powerful/strong and very sharp.

I don't know of any Highland TB crosses. I've known a few arab Highland crosses (one of which was nice-the others, hmm). I've also seen some very nice PRE x Highlands, there was a stud up here doing them a fair while back. Very baroque-which also means prone to being very fat!
 

Annagain

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Turnbuckle - my ShirexTB has the most calm, laid back & good nature, I've never ever experienced any type of 'filthy temper' from him - just shows you how different horses can be!!

My share horse is 5/8 TB 1/4 Sec D and 1/8 Shire so the potential to be a terrible mix (conformationally he's a bit odd!) but he's the most genuine horse you'll ever meet. He's very laid back, but so honest that he'll never say no. He gives everything just enough to get the job done and not an ounce more which makes him very safe. He's not the most confident of horses but if something bothers him he just freezes, takes a little bit of time to work it out and then gets on with it. He wouldn't know what a tantrum was. If he feels a rider wobble he'll slow down and gently push his head up to pop you back in the saddle. nobody has ever fallen off him *touches wood* just fallen over with him. He really is worth his not-insignificant weight in gold.
 
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