Crufts 2018

meleeka said:
Claire Balding explained that these dogs have to be fit to be a good show dog. Is that actually true?
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Absolutely not - the rubbish you hear from the commentators at Crufts is hilarious :) I still remember one describing a fat greyhound with no muscle as “fit as a fiddle, not an ounce of fat on him” :D :D

Dog show judges appear to exist in a parallel universe where things appear in a very different way..... :)
 
the English setter was fat too :(

what utter muppets PETA and their vegan friends are-apart from scaring the dogs its out of order performing this kind of stunt after the terrorist attacks UK and Europe have suffered in recent years.
 
Lévrier;13740041 said:
Absolutely not - the rubbish you hear from the commentators at Crufts is hilarious :) I still remember one describing a fat greyhound with no muscle as “fit as a fiddle, not an ounce of fat on him” :D :D

Dog show judges appear to exist in a parallel universe where things appear in a very different way..... :)
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That makes sense, that’s what I think about the Kennel Club.
 
meleeka said:
Claire Balding explained that these dogs have to be fit to be a good show dog. Is that actually true?
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Yes and no...a guy I was training with yesterday gets up at 5am to run his dogs in the forest.
I know people who have their dogs pull sleighs, I know one dog who was kept in Europe who climbed up the mountain and was brought down on the gondola so that the 'uphill' work wouldn't be undone :p
However I also see (and smell :() dogs that clearly don't get out of the kennel much between shows. I think the people who love their dogs will keep them fit anyway, the people who see them as a vehicle for them to win shiny things, won't.
My dog is in super condition but I do let him put on a couple of kilos before I show him, in full working mode he would be considered a bit too pointy :p
 
Not all vegans are fans of Peta. I dont agree with what they do at all. However, they definitely have a point about some breeds of show dogs. ie Gsds, bulldogs etc
 
splashgirl45 said:
although i love whippets and the winner was a good specimen, i felt very uncomfortable watching her. she seemed to be really shut down,the only time her tail wasnt under her belly was when she was moving and i didnt like the way she was handled, she was strung up tight when moving and she wasnt even allowed to relax when she had won, the handler was pushing her around all of the time, and didnt seem to give off any affection at all....i loved the temperament of the akita who looked like it was having fun and also liked the newfie, thought she deserved to be placed.....
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Completely agree with all of that. I liked the whippet and thought she might win but she really did lack sparkle. The owner didn't praise her once even after they'd won!
 
Sandstone1 said:
Not all vegans are fans of Peta. I dont agree with what they do at all. However, they definitely have a point about some breeds of show dogs. ie Gsds, bulldogs etc
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I didn't say all vegans ;) but PETA are describing them as their friends. It was the Vegan Strike Group that pulled this stunt. They do have a point about some breeds-just not the breeds that won and were runner up lol. It was badly made and poorly executed but it has made PETA look stupid and thats no bad thing IMO.
 
Thanks to those who have updated me on the life of some show dogs, interesting reading. Suppose it’s the same for any discipline with animals involved - some people will consider the animal as a whole and other people see it as a commodity.
Also interesting reading about how dogs are being bred.
 
Sandstone1 said:
Not all vegans are fans of Peta. I dont agree with what they do at all. However, they definitely have a point about some breeds of show dogs. ie Gsds, bulldogs etc
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No one's knocking vegans. Most are decent people.
What people are slagging off (or should be) veganazis!
There's a big difference ;) ;)
 
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Evie91 said:
Thanks to those who have updated me on the life of some show dogs, interesting reading. Suppose it’s the same for any discipline with animals involved - some people will consider the animal as a whole and other people see it as a commodity.
Also interesting reading about how dogs are being bred.
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From my own observations I think people should keep fewer dogs. As I always hear it as an excuse as to why people can't train/title/health test. Oh, I couldn't possibly, I don't have time and I couldn't afford to health test or work or keep fit THIS many dogs - OK then, keep fewer, breed fewer, invest in the breed and don't breed from the ones that don't come up to the mark then, perhaps?
 
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CorvusCorax said:
From my own observations I think people should keep fewer dogs. As I always hear it as an excuse as to why people can't train/title/health test. Oh, I couldn't possibly, I don't have time and I couldn't afford to health test or work or keep fit THIS many dogs - OK then, keep fewer, breed fewer, invest in the breed and don't breed from the ones that don't come up to the mark then, perhaps?
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I look on preloved quite a bit, pure nosiness, and there is always a litter of labs for sale from a local town. They are now selling a four year old bitch, I assume she has had her litters or something has gone wrong. They sell maybe 5 or 6 litters a year, for pure finanical gain. Now I am no saint when it comes to money but wouldn't it be better to breed because you have a dog that will enhance the breed and you want a puppy, or you have been asked for a puppy by people?
 
Clodagh said:
Now I am no saint when it comes to money but wouldn't it be better to breed because you have a dog that will enhance the breed and you want a puppy, or you have been asked for a puppy by people?
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I agree - but I can’t believe the fashion associated with dogs which I’ve never really seen before.

We had a litter last summer because I knew I had guaranteed six homes and through speaking to the sire he had list of people wanting pups. What I wasn’t prepared for were the amount of people who were buying specifically for the colour of the dog (working retriever) with absolutely NO understanding of the breed or their characteristics - it makes finding suitable homes that bit more difficult when you have to sift through a sea of people willing to pay good money, offering a good loving home and often all the time in the world for a puppy but no understanding how a working bred dog can differ from its showing counterpart. I suppose it does go back to the point CC made earlier in relation to hunting and working breeds which is entirely accurate.
 
Clodagh said:
I look on preloved quite a bit, pure nosiness, and there is always a litter of labs for sale from a local town. They are now selling a four year old bitch, I assume she has had her litters or something has gone wrong. They sell maybe 5 or 6 litters a year, for pure finanical gain. Now I am no saint when it comes to money but wouldn't it be better to breed because you have a dog that will enhance the breed and you want a puppy, or you have been asked for a puppy by people?
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Why is it wrong to breed puppies people want to buy, for money? We don't criticise big studs breeding horses for money.
 
ycbm said:
Why is it wrong to breed puppies people want to buy, for money? We don't criticise big studs breeding horses for money.
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Because hopefully the big studs are breeding from mares and stallions that will bring something to the horse world. I have no problems with breeders making money, but it would be nice if the sole defining achievement of the mother was more than 'it has a uterus'.
 
Clodagh said:
Because hopefully the big studs are breeding from mares and stallions that will bring something to the horse world. I have no problems with breeders making money, but it would be nice if the sole defining achievement of the mother was more than 'it has a uterus'.
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Agree. I would consider the big studs to be equivalent to the better dog breeders who health test and always breed to improve. Whereas the people who advertise pups on preloved and the like are the canine equivalent to those who produce the scrappy foals that often end up at markets selling for £10.
 
Clodagh said:
Because hopefully the big studs are breeding from mares and stallions that will bring something to the horse world. I have no problems with breeders making money, but it would be nice if the sole defining achievement of the mother was more than 'it has a uterus'.
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I didn't limit big studs to elite studs. There are plenty of studs running a couple of fields full of freebie mares to sell horses at a profit so that ordinary people who want an ordinary horse can buy one. I see nothing wrong with that and I can't see any problem with responsibly breeding puppies for profit either. We breed cows for a profit to eat, what's wrong with breeding an animal for a profit to give enjoyment to people?
 
MurphysMinder said:
Agree. I would consider the big studs to be equivalent to the better dog breeders who health test and always breed to improve. Whereas the people who advertise pups on preloved and the like are the canine equivalent to those who produce the scrappy foals that often end up at markets selling for £10.
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I'm not talking about the ones run like an illegal puppy farm.

The studs I'm talking about, and I know of several, run a few of fields full of mares they have been given for free, and breed ordinary, healthy, horses for ordinary people to buy. My appyx has nine waiting to be born this spring from his field full of mares (not mine, he's a gelding now).

What's wrong with that?
 
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Labs are a breed, like many others, which suffer inherited genetic conditions like HD/ED and if you breed away at them blindly with no health tests you don't know what is lurking and the heartache, pain and misery you are passing down the generations.

Also if you breed 5 or 6 litters of unpapered dogs a year in the same geographic area and no one knows who is who, imagine what happens when the close relatives start breeding. Nice.

It's not responsible, it's profiteering off an animal's uterus.
And some people are making a shedload of untaxed pocket money that isn't being declared.

A mare also isn't capable of producing 5-10 offspring twice a year.
 
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ycbm said:
I'm not talking about the ones run like an illegal puppy farm.

The studs I'm talking about, and I know of several, run a few of fields full of mares they have been given for free, and breed ordinary, healthy, horses for ordinary people to buy. My appyx has nine waiting to be born this spring from his field full of mares (not mine, he's a gelding now).

What's wrong with that?
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Hopefully the mares are sound, and of decent temperament, ditto the stallion.
 
There are very few genetically inheritable conditions in horses in comparison to those in dogs. Even more so if you take out the new world breeds/colours.
 
ester said:
There are very few genetically inheritable conditions in horses in comparison to those in dogs. Even more so if you take out the new world breeds/colours.
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why is that with what you refer to as the new world breeds/colours? I mean I agree, there's HYPP and PSSM I think, probably others too, but why are congenital disorders higher compared to European breeds?
(Sorry for hijacking thread.)
 
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yes I was thinking those two and lethal white overo too :).

I'm not entirely sure I was right to say number of conditions so much as number of horses carrying them due to selection for it due to breeding practices. It certainly means that for most horse breeders over here they don't have to worry about such inherited conditions being an issue, particularly if crossing breeds. I also think dogs have more cross over of genetic conditions between breeds.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Labs are a breed, like many others, which suffer inherited genetic conditions like HD/ED and if you breed away at them blindly with no health tests you don't know what is lurking and the heartache, pain and misery you are passing down the generations.

Also if you breed 5 or 6 litters of unpapered dogs a year in the same geographic area and no one knows who is who, imagine what happens when the close relatives start breeding. Nice.

It's not responsible, it's profiteering off an animal's uterus.
And some people are making a shedload of untaxed pocket money that isn't being declared.

A mare also isn't capable of producing 5-10 offspring twice a year.
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Tax evasion is irrelevant to the question of why people shouldn't make money out of breeding puppies people want to buy.

Few people breed from their pet dogs, the unknowing inbreeding question is an issue but not a big one.

Why does unpapered have to be synonymous with untested for genetic defects ? Let's assume for the sake of the argument that they are tested - what's wrong with making a profit from breeding puppies?

I don't see the difference between selling one offspring for profit and selling five.

What is the problem with profiting off a mares uterus? Don't stallion owners profit off a stallion's semen? Don't all meat and dairy farmers profit off uterus/i (?) None of the animals is being asked to do anything unnatural.

Just what is so wrong about breeding puppies for profit that isn't also wrong about breeding horses, birds, guinea pigs or any other pet?
 
Yes, if you mate a poodle with hip dysplasia with a lab with hip dysplasia you will likely get dysplastic crossbreeds. Or if you mate a dysplastic dog to a non dysplastic dog, it doesn't cancel out the risk.
 
See you only have to hang around the pet facebook groups to see actually quite a lot of people breed from their untested pet dogs.

Often they will state that the pups if purebred won't be registered and if you ask 9 times out of 10 it is because the parents haven't been tested or the bitch has already had too many litters. If they are a high risk breed I will often ask if the parents are health tested (particularly if you are asking £1300 for your mini daschunds :rolleyes3:) only once has anyone ever said yes and included tested results. As a purchaser that just sounds like an expensive way to heartbreak to me and not fair on the pup either.
 
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Tax evasion is irrelevant to the question of why people shouldn't make money out of breeding puppies people want to buy.
BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL AS WELL AS UNETHICAL? IT'S A COMPANION ANIMAL, NOT A PRODUCT LIKE A TOASTER OR TELEVISION.

Few people breed from their pet dogs, the unknowing inbreeding question is an issue but not a big one.
NOT MY EXPERIENCE...LOTS OF PEOPLE BREEDING PETS NEAR ME.

Why does unpapered have to be synonymous with untested for genetic defects ? Let's assume for the sake of the argument that they are tested - what's wrong with making a profit from breeding puppies?
YOU CAN'T RECORD AN OFFICIAL HEALTH TEST ON A DOG WITH NO ID/PAPERS. PEOPLE WHO SELL PUPS FOR MAXIMUM PROFIT DON'T GO TO THE BOTHER OF SPENDING MONEY ON REGISTRATIONS OR HEALTH TESTS.
MANY OF THESE BREEDING ANIMALS ARE TOO OLD OR HAVE EXCEEDED THEIR ALLOCATED LITTERS SO PUPS CANNOT BE REGISTERED.

I don't see the difference between selling one offspring for profit and selling five.
FOUR MORE IN RESCUE/NEEDING REHOMED?

What is the problem with profiting off a mares uterus? Don't stallion owners profit off a stallion's semen? Don't all meat and dairy farmers profit off uterus/i (?) None of the animals is being asked to do anything unnatural.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HORSES/COWS. I'M TALKING DOMESTIC PETS THAT LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH PEOPLE.

Just what is so wrong about breeding puppies for profit that isn't also wrong about breeding horses, birds, guinea pigs or any other pet?
I DON'T AGREE WITH BREEDING ANY PET ANIMAL FOR PROFIT. THERE ARE THESE THINGS CALLED JOBS?
 
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