druid
Well-Known Member
Do you get given your ring number on the day?? Just realised I’ve forgotten all my print outs
It's on your bench. 2 copies. One is bench number one is ring number.
Good luck tomorrow!
CRUFTS 2024 roll call!
- Thread starter EllieBeast
- Start date
It's on your bench. 2 copies. One is bench number one is ring number.
Good luck tomorrow!
Mynstrel
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. So it's not sitting down so much as taking a bigger stride with the back legs that causes everything to be lower because the foot is further forward than a short striding dog. I do understand the frustration, I hear it from people with "mad" border colllies which are just fit bored idiots from the 4hrs walking every day with no brain work.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
Persactly! Rear wheel drive, like a lot of German vehicles lol.
My old dog has a beautiful flowy ground covering gait, despite having quite short/upright hocks and a short, straight back. It's more to do with his angle of his croup than his back legs.
SkylarkAscending
Well-Known Member
Hey people do it with cavaliers all the time…..
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose 
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t referring to the whole ‘race’.
I don’t like what they’ve done to the ‘SHOW’ German Shepherds. It’s my opinion and I apologise if it came across as insulting, but the dogs I watched today didn’t look like they could ‘run up and down field boundaries all day’. Their back legs are so extreme they don’t look like they have any strength in them at all. I understand not all German Shepherds look like that, but if they are being celebrated at high profile shows as the best examples of their breed, you can hardly blame people for assuming that’s what they are supposed to look like. My own (non pedigree) German Shepherd, is probably considered a really bad example of the breed. She looks more like this. She could absolutely run up and down field boundaries all day, but she’s not what the KC are promoting.
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CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
The image that you have Googled includes some of the main pillars of the breed, from which all of the dogs you saw today are descended 
islander
Well-Known Member
I am a huge fan of Airedales (and Labs) the Scruffs winner looked a lovely pet dog but would l have put him through all the hassle that showing must mean, especially to an old dog?
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Thank you!!
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
The owner recently posted a still from a video showing this bitch moving . I will ask if I can share on here , but yes it is drive from the hind legs .
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
This was Crufts BoB a couple of weeks ago , obligatory ball in gob which most Gsd owners will understand!!
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I’m useless at adding photos , 2 or nothing it seems
meleeka
Well-Known Member
The image that you have Googled includes some of the main pillars of the breed, from which all of the dogs you saw today are descended
Which was kind of my point. The dogs we see in the show ring now are very different.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
So what do you find extreme in the photo above ?
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
How many shows do you go to/how many other GSDs do you see on a weekly basis?
P3LH
Well-Known Member
I’ve been highly critical of the extremes in GSD over the years but I must admit I found her rather moderate for a show line/clearly steps (or strides) in a better direction than where things were a few years ago.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I know a few GSD’s. I don’t show. The only person I know that did, had 5 at one point and they’ve all suffered an early demise due to osteoporosis or hip
problems. I’ve already stated that I am referring to show dogs, the ones that the KC are promoting as a fine example of their breed. Somebody at some point has decided that sloping backs and dogs that can’t walk without their hocks touching the floor, or their feet dishing out because they can’t get enough height to clear the ground is the breed standard. My opinion is that they were better before that happened and I hope I’m still allowed an opinion, even if I’m not an expert.
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Plus it all takes time, improvement. The BOB rough collie last night was one of the best I’ve seen, and could have been from any era. It’s been the best part of 16 years since some breeders decided ‘hang on, what’s happening here?’ And started to seek old older lines, import from over seas and do some very clever breeding. I say some, as obviously many are happy with the modern type and continue to breed it. But those who sought to breed back to the more classic type have been working ever since to do so, whilst increasing genetic diversity (as a breed they were/are terribly genetically impoverished) and breeding away from known genetic issues. There’s still a lot more to do, but a dog like we saw last night didn’t just happen. I’ve watched the journey and some generations were better than others, and some lines took longer to change. It’s the same with a rather prominent breeder who is outcrossing and being very clever with it, it all takes time. Unless you metaphorically cull out (by not breeding rather than actually culling) any dog that doesn’t fit the ideal, at which point you not only narrow the gene pool but create bottle necks left right and centre. Breeding dogs is spinning so many plates - which is why I couldn’t do it.
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Tangent alert - but it’s been in my thoughts as every dog friend has of course been talking to me exclusively about showing/crufts/breeds and controversies for about a week now so that’s all my brain is on!
One thing that has got my attention lately, not specific to any breed but more generically, is the attitude to health testing.
I’m now seeing certain ‘designer’ (I’ve come to loathe that term, so will say modern cross instead) litters of various crosses and various breeding which come health tested up to the absolute eyeballs, in some instances nearly every genetic test going in addition to hip and elbow scoring. Obviously there are still many which aren’t, but there are larger numbers that are than are not compared to say two years ago.
Yet there are still breeds with quite well documented/well known health issues, genetic issues and at risk inherent issues where health testing is done in the minority, ignored, reasoned away etc. I get there will always be situations where it’s complicated, take my beloved Pembroke corgis with DM where there is a lot of grey around mode of inheritance due to the dwarfism gene and therefore the efficacy of the test - fine, I’ve seen the research, I can see the question marks - but then find a test that’s more reliable. There’s certainly enough money in the breed, as with others.
I really think the attitude overall to dogs is changing, what people want from the dog they’re buying, what people prioritise, but also what they want from the person who has bred and is selling that dog. I’ve long since felt that is a reason behind many breeds hitting low numbers, including my beloved rough collies. Of course there’ll still always be the ‘want in now, cheap and however possible’, but I have really noticed a change in the average pet person.
A good friend of mine, who is a dog person through and through, shows and competes in other disciplines, recently got a new dog. I won’t state breeds as someone will argue with me the sky is yellow over the situation. This dog is a new type to them. They’ve generally always had two breeds/types but have lost the last few to reasons highly prevalent in their populace. Genetic disorders which are testable and known health issues which should be bred away from. With much research they reached a decision they couldn’t find any representatives of either breed/type they’ve always had and loved since childhood, which was low enough risk of going through what they went through losing their dogs in middle age to things which, with thought and overtime, could have been prevented. They have gone for something completely different. A type, not breed, that started as a cross and is now a few generations in and fairly predictable. They didn’t remortgage their house for it, and it’s ancestors have been subjected to more rigor and health testing than any of my last four dogs who all came from very good, very ethical and very well thought of show breeders. They picked the dog on the obvious of liking the type and feeling it was right for them, but the health and genetic soundness. Im aware there are many pedigree/recognised breeds from backgrounds that would have fitted their specifications too, but it of course was their choice - it has really made me mull and think a lot though.
One thing that has got my attention lately, not specific to any breed but more generically, is the attitude to health testing.
I’m now seeing certain ‘designer’ (I’ve come to loathe that term, so will say modern cross instead) litters of various crosses and various breeding which come health tested up to the absolute eyeballs, in some instances nearly every genetic test going in addition to hip and elbow scoring. Obviously there are still many which aren’t, but there are larger numbers that are than are not compared to say two years ago.
Yet there are still breeds with quite well documented/well known health issues, genetic issues and at risk inherent issues where health testing is done in the minority, ignored, reasoned away etc. I get there will always be situations where it’s complicated, take my beloved Pembroke corgis with DM where there is a lot of grey around mode of inheritance due to the dwarfism gene and therefore the efficacy of the test - fine, I’ve seen the research, I can see the question marks - but then find a test that’s more reliable. There’s certainly enough money in the breed, as with others.
I really think the attitude overall to dogs is changing, what people want from the dog they’re buying, what people prioritise, but also what they want from the person who has bred and is selling that dog. I’ve long since felt that is a reason behind many breeds hitting low numbers, including my beloved rough collies. Of course there’ll still always be the ‘want in now, cheap and however possible’, but I have really noticed a change in the average pet person.
A good friend of mine, who is a dog person through and through, shows and competes in other disciplines, recently got a new dog. I won’t state breeds as someone will argue with me the sky is yellow over the situation. This dog is a new type to them. They’ve generally always had two breeds/types but have lost the last few to reasons highly prevalent in their populace. Genetic disorders which are testable and known health issues which should be bred away from. With much research they reached a decision they couldn’t find any representatives of either breed/type they’ve always had and loved since childhood, which was low enough risk of going through what they went through losing their dogs in middle age to things which, with thought and overtime, could have been prevented. They have gone for something completely different. A type, not breed, that started as a cross and is now a few generations in and fairly predictable. They didn’t remortgage their house for it, and it’s ancestors have been subjected to more rigor and health testing than any of my last four dogs who all came from very good, very ethical and very well thought of show breeders. They picked the dog on the obvious of liking the type and feeling it was right for them, but the health and genetic soundness. Im aware there are many pedigree/recognised breeds from backgrounds that would have fitted their specifications too, but it of course was their choice - it has really made me mull and think a lot though.
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malwhit
Well-Known Member
I got a post in my Facebook thread about a controversy over the Mini Schnauzer judging at Crufts.
I have searched Facebook - and am beginning to think I dreamt it as I cant find anything about it
Has anyone any idea what the controversy was?
I have searched Facebook - and am beginning to think I dreamt it as I cant find anything about it
Has anyone any idea what the controversy was?
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Have a friend who was showing minis - will dig. Was sent a video of a very elderly and very lame Irish setter in the ring that is now doing the rounds on social media from Friday - it moved as my blue merle rough collie was moving on the day I took him to the vets to be euthanised aged only 8!I got a post in my Facebook thread about a controversy over the Mini Schnauzer judging at Crufts.
I have searched Facebook - and am beginning to think I dreamt it as I cant find anything about it
Has anyone any idea what the controversy was?
blackcob
🖖
I saw somebody responding to the controversy but couldn't find the original post criticising the winner and gave up - not my circus etc. 
I vaguely gather from the comments that the UK dog differs in type to what the critic thinks should be winning.
I have also seen the video of the Irish setter and it was very distressing.
I vaguely gather from the comments that the UK dog differs in type to what the critic thinks should be winning.I have also seen the video of the Irish setter and it was very distressing.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
I've never had a dog with hip problems in my life (more than five) because I go for dogs from generations of health tested stock, it was the show people who drove that testing programme.
The Martin brothers in the 1980s (who bred some of the dogs on your image) drove the gap between show and working lines by promoting their own type and the Siegers of the late 80s and early 90s began the trend for more extreme angulation/a peak between the withers and the croup. It's actually very little to do with the KC. If you know, you know.
Can you please apply your parts in bold to the picture that MurphysMinder posted, and show me where the back is sloping, thanks.
Can you also, without Googling, tell me what the breed standard says about the back? And where the back actually is/what point you think its starts and ends?
meleeka
Well-Known Member
It’s to do with the KC because they are overseeing judges who are rewarding the changes. The photo above is a moment in time and I agree, they don’t look nearly as bad when trotting, but dogs have to be able to walk and stand properly too surely? I’d have to google a video of the dog at walk to show you what I mean, so as I’m not allowed to google, I won’t be able to, sorry
. If you are saying there’s nothing wrong with the dogs that are being shown at Crufts and other big shows then we will never agree, so a pointless debate. I’m sure all the bulldog owners are busy telling everyone what wonderful dogs they are too.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Omg. My dog won best of breed! Now I have to go on tv 
I’m in shock. So happy for her breeder!
I’m in shock. So happy for her breeder!
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Wonderful news - and a wonderful breed too! Well done to you both!Omg. My dog won best of breed! Now I have to go on tv
I’m in shock. So happy for her breeder!
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
It’s to do with the KC because they are overseeing judges who are rewarding the changes. The photo above is a moment in time and I agree, they don’t look nearly as bad when trotting, but dogs have to be able to walk and stand properly too surely? I’d have to google a video of the dog at walk to show you what I mean, so as I’m not allowed to google, I won’t be able to, sorry
If you are saying there’s nothing wrong with the dogs that are being shown at Crufts and other big shows then we will never agree, so a pointless debate. I’m sure all the bulldog owners are busy telling everyone what wonderful dogs they are too.
I didn't say no one was allowed to do anything or not, nor did I say there were no problems, there's just a difference between Google/an opinion/what people do/don't like the look of themselves and informed, personal, hands-on knowledge. Off now to spend my afternoon with a load of slopy backed cripples as usual! Surprised the poor things can get out of the car.
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Will hopefully see you on tvOmg. My dog won best of breed! Now I have to go on tv
I’m in shock. So happy for her breeder!
congratulations!!
druid
Well-Known Member
Huge, massive congratulations to @Patterdale on her Best of Breed with Wispa at her first ever Crufts 
I was going to leave it to her to tell you all but I wanted everyone to be able to cheer her on in the main ring tonight!
And yes, this is Wispa who broke her pelvis badly and Jenny nursed back to health
Eta: I see Jenny has posted.. slow Internet here!
Forgot to add our terrier was 2nd as expected but behaved impeccably.
I was going to leave it to her to tell you all but I wanted everyone to be able to cheer her on in the main ring tonight!
And yes, this is Wispa who broke her pelvis badly and Jenny nursed back to health
Eta: I see Jenny has posted.. slow Internet here!
Forgot to add our terrier was 2nd as expected but behaved impeccably.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I didn’t realise it was the same dog. That is wonderful news, congratulations Patterdale!Huge, massive congratulations to @Patterdale on her Best of Breed with Wispa at her first ever Crufts
I was going to leave it to her to tell you all but I wanted everyone to be able to cheer her on in the main ring tonight!
And yes, this is Wispa who broke her pelvis badly and Jenny nursed back to health
Eta: I see Jenny has posted.. slow Internet here!
Forgot to add our terrier was 2nd as expected but behaved impeccably.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
Well done @Patterdale