Dangerous / aggressive horse - advice needed?!

happyhorse978

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Hi all, I will try to keep this as short as possible, but I am in a really difficult situation and it's totally breaking my heart, so any advice is appreciated and welcomed.

I have had my horse for about 2.5 years. I had him straight off the track. He was always 'quirky' and sharp, the first day i brought him home he was difficult to put a rug on (trying to bite and lifted a back leg etc) and the same for saddling when we come to that. He has always been good under saddle (I have only ever done hacking and light schooling with him). I contacted the staff at the race yard he came from who said he was always a grump on the ground/in the stable etc but manageable.

Anyway - 12 months ago, his behaviour worsened overnight. He suddenly became aggressive (i still to this day cannot work out a reason). He chased me out of the field twice, ears pinned and teeth showing. I was shocked but thought there must be a reason for this, as his behaviour continued to worsen. Later that day he tried to attack me whilst I changed his rug, he actually snapped the string he was tied up to to try and get me. I phoned the vet straight away as I suspected ulcers, I took him into the clinic the next day and had him scoped. As predicted, grade 2&3 squamous, glandular and pyloric ulcers bless him. Not suprising considering he was a racehorse. Treated with Omeprazole for four weeks and he scoped perfectly clear. I was hopeful his behaviour would improve now the ulcers were sorted (his management was totally fine for an ulcer prone horse, vet said nothing needed to change there, I always manage horses as though they have got ulcers just as a preventative measure!)

This is where it all started to go downhill. His behaviour started getting worse. I have had numerous behaviourists out to him, to no avail, perhaps some slight improvement with one of them but very shortlasting (a couple of weeks) and then boom, back to normal. I dont let anybody else handle my horse, i know him very well so i can tell when he is about to do something. His behaviour got so bad that in May of this year I went to stroke him whilst he was in the field and he lunged at me and sent me flying backwards through the fence. I think I was temporarily knocked out for a couple of seconds as his head collided with mine. This is where i thought, right, I need to dig deeper. I had the vet out again for a re-scope (which he scoped perfectly clear again and back x-rays (which were fine). I was stumped. Carried on working with behaviourist trainer.

I moved yards in the summer as where we were wasnt particularly a nice environment and i wondered if this was contributing if he was not happy. We are at a lovely quiet yard now but the behaviour is still bad. He lunged and bit at the behavioural trainer the other day, and he actually broke her collarbone, with his teeth. (He is a big 16.2hh TB so he really throws his weight at you when he lunges at you ). He also has developed a sudden dislike to travelling, whether in a trailer or lorry. He will rear vertical, thrash around constantly and panic bless him, I had to have him sedated on our journey just to get him to the new yard safely.

Obviously I have consulted my vet again, who has been out to see him. We arent sure what could be causing this behaviour. He cannot be rugged (it is actually impossible unless you are totally fearless/stupid!), I had to have him sedated the other day just so i could rug him as its dropped cold. He also will not be saddled (not that I am trying to saddle him when his behaviour is like this). This is not a new occurance but it has worsened. Sometimes he can just turn on you for no reason on the ground, sometimes it feels like you only have to look at him the wrong way! Some days he is better than others but it is getting to the point where general handling/care is proving difficult.

Myself and my vet have agreed to trial him on four weeks of Mistoprolol incase of any hindgut pain/ulceration, to see if this improves his behaviour so i will be starting him on this sometime this week. I am also considering having him thermal imaged over his whole body to show up any areas of pain/imflammation. I am geninely considering his quality of life at this point, as clearly there is something going on somewhere. I fully believe he is in chronic pain somewhere, we just havent found it yet. Or perhaps some sort of brain problem? I dont know whether this is common in horses but i would be grateful of your advice. please be kind, this horse is my entire world, he has the best of everything and I am trying to rule out everything possible for him, i have spent thousands so far and insurance is pretty well used too!! I am heart broken, i just want to do the right thing by him, whatever that is.

thank you so much
 

splashgirl45

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Sorry you are going through this and it sounds like you are doing all the right things .Have you looked at his food? Some horses have bad reactions , maybe no feed just hay for a while might be worth trying. Also is he out with other horses or is he in a field alone, that could make him worse as well if he is on his own..Hope you manage to find an answer ?
 

Fransurrey

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I know long term bute possibly is a bad idea for an ulcer prone horse, but have you had a bute or danilon trial? Sad to say that he sounds like he's in a awful lot of pain and I think you could end up throwing a lot of treatment at something unfixable. Tumour is certainly an option, as is PSSM, but management of PSSM can only do so much. As heartless as I may sound, I would pts and get a full PM done for peace of mind. He's already caused severe injury to more than one person.
 

happyhorse978

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Just wondering if he’s like it with other horses as well as you?

No, he is generally a friendly guy with other horses. He will have the odd moment with them but no more than a 'normal' horse. It is people that he has the issues with (not just me! Anyone!)
 

happyhorse978

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Sorry you are going through this and it sounds like you are doing all the right things .Have you looked at his food? Some horses have bad reactions , maybe no feed just hay for a while might be worth trying. Also is he out with other horses or is he in a field alone, that could make him worse as well if he is on his own..Hope you manage to find an answer ?

Thankyou, I have tried him on individual turnout and turned out with others, but unfortunately it didnt seem to make any difference :(

His food has been extensively looked into - I am a bit of a nutrition geek haha so have tried different things, i have tried ruling different ingredients out etc but nothing makes a difference xx
 

happyhorse978

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I know long term bute possibly is a bad idea for an ulcer prone horse, but have you had a bute or danilon trial? Sad to say that he sounds like he's in a awful lot of pain and I think you could end up throwing a lot of treatment at something unfixable. Tumour is certainly an option, as is PSSM, but management of PSSM can only do so much. As heartless as I may sound, I would pts and get a full PM done for peace of mind. He's already caused severe injury to more than one person.

Thank you, I was thinking about doing a Danilon trial to see if this makes a difference . i will discuss with my vet, thankyou. I am worried about his quality of life as i believe he is in pain somewhere, and i want to do the kindest thing for him. But for my own peace of mind I need to rule everything out before i can make an informed decision. thankyou again x x
 

happyhorse978

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If this was a dog people would be horrified it hadn't been pts. The same applies here I'm afraid. Pain is likely the cause but don't wait until he kills you or someone else, there's plenty of nice ex racehorses needing a home. Sorry.

This is why I am asking advice. I am working closely with my vet to rule out any pain, as i do believe this is the root cause, but obviously i will do the right thing for him, whatever that will be
 

happyhorse978

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When you say that you have tried ruling feed ingredients out, have you actually stripped his diet back to nothing but grass? He sounds reminiscent of a TBx mare that I had, fortunately we realised that her diet was causing her problems, just before we were planning pts.

Kind of, although I did it with grass and ad-lib hay too as we dont have an awful lot of grass. But this didnt seem to make a difference either :(
 

bonny

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If this was a dog people would be horrified it hadn't been pts. The same applies here I'm afraid. Pain past or present is likely the cause but don't wait until he kills you or someone else, there's plenty of nice ex racehorses needing a home. Sorry.
I agree with this I’m afraid, you have a horse that’s been grumpy for years that you can’t even rug let alone ride. I think looking at any other reasons for his behaviour is a waste of time and money and he could do you or someone else serious damage in the meantime.
 

poiuytrewq

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If this was a dog people would be horrified it hadn't been pts. The same applies here I'm afraid. Pain past or present is likely the cause but don't wait until he kills you or someone else, there's plenty of nice ex racehorses needing a home. Sorry.
I have to agree with this. Kudos to you for trying and by the sounds of it you really have tried to help this horse but I read the first part of your thread just thinking he’s a regular grouchy TB until I got to the breaking a collar bone with its teeth. That’s not normal. I’d never risk owning a horse like that if other people were likely to ever come into contact with it. Imagine if that had been the persons face. I’d pts in an instant.
 

millikins

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If he was always grumpy in training, perhaps his behaviour has escalated as he is now in an environment where that is possible? Previously much more work, more confinement, always handled by people used to dealing with sharp, reactive horses on a daily basis?
 

marmalade76

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If this was a dog people would be horrified it hadn't been pts. The same applies here I'm afraid. Pain is likely the cause but don't wait until he kills you or someone else, there's plenty of nice ex racehorses needing a home. Sorry.

Totally agree. I have just sold a handy with his feet, horse aggressive/food aggressive horse (to someone who used to loan him so knows his quirks and loves him anyway) because getting kicked is not something I'm prepared to put up with, life is too short. This horse still has loads of good points, though, if he'd been anything like yours, I would have cut my losses and called the hunt.

As said, there are plenty of lovely, sweet natured ex racehorses looking for homes, I've had three (two were freebies) and they were absolute darlings! Don't waste your time, money & safety with this one.
 

Gloi

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People are such fragile creatures towards a large horse. We are really fortunate that 99+ percentage of them are kind and forgiving because once a horse has learnt that it is able to hurt and intimidate and is in the mind to do so it becomes a very dangerous animal.
I have sadly met one or two in my time, fortunately not mine. One picked up the poor farrier's assistant by the shoulder at one time and threw him across the yard.
 

happyhorse978

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I agree with this I’m afraid, you have a horse that’s been grumpy for years that you can’t even rug let alone ride. I think looking at any other reasons for his behaviour is a waste of time and money and he could do you or someone else serious damage in the meantime.

I am struggling because he has always been such a good boy to ride, albeit hes never been in hard competitive work, but still he is the best ridden horse I have had, but always been difficult on the ground since the day I got him.
I just want to do all i can for him before i have to make that call, he means the world to me and i just want to do best by him, in whatever way
 

happyhorse978

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I have to agree with this. Kudos to you for trying and by the sounds of it you really have tried to help this horse but I read the first part of your thread just thinking he’s a regular grouchy TB until I got to the breaking a collar bone with its teeth. That’s not normal. I’d never risk owning a horse like that if other people were likely to ever come into contact with it. Imagine if that had been the persons face. I’d pts in an instant.

Thank you. Its breaking my heart because I have tried, and still am trying to do everything for him. It is difficult i think because some days he is a lot better than others so therefore i think 'oh, a glimmer of hope!' - but realistically, i know he is not right, and i am trying so hard to be realistic here and do what is best for him. But i am struggling, really struggling :(
 

bonny

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I am struggling because he has always been such a good boy to ride, albeit hes never been in hard competitive work, but still he is the best ridden horse I have had, but always been difficult on the ground since the day I got him.
I just want to do all i can for him before i have to make that call, he means the world to me and i just want to do best by him, in whatever way
I get it’s hard but you can’t ride him anymore. Are there other people that come into contact with him ? It’s one thing to take risks yourself but totally unacceptable to risk others.
 

happyhorse978

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If he was always grumpy in training, perhaps his behaviour has escalated as he is now in an environment where that is possible? Previously much more work, more confinement, always handled by people used to dealing with sharp, reactive horses on a daily basis?

I am used to dealing with sharp horses (my previous horse was sharp) but not aggressive. Its a totally different ball game when you cant be in their space, safely.
But yes i believe he was always like this for quite some time at his last yard whilst in training
 

happyhorse978

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I get it’s hard but you can’t ride him anymore. Are there other people that come into contact with him ? It’s one thing to take risks yourself but totally unacceptable to risk others.

No, I dont let anybody else handle him. I would never put anyone else at risk. (I know people will say I put a behavioural trainer at risk but actually i didnt, i fully disclosed everything and advised her not to do something, which she still did, and she admits this was an error of judgement) - but no body else handles him apart from me, twice daily
 

Goldenstar

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If he’s no different then you can’t rule out pain if he is then you know he’s in significant chronic discomfort .
What you would then you need to think about what you do next very carefully .
 

happyhorse978

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Totally agree. I have just sold a handy with his feet, horse aggressive/food aggressive horse (to someone who used to loan him so knows his quirks and loves him anyway) because getting kicked is not something I'm prepared to put up with, life is too short. This horse still has loads of good points, though, if he'd been anything like yours, I would have cut my losses and called the hunt.

As said, there are plenty of lovely, sweet natured ex racehorses looking for homes, I've had three (two were freebies) and they were absolute darlings! Don't waste your time, money & safety with this one.

I would never pass him on, because I can only imagine what would happen to him and I would never put him through that, and also i would not risk someone elses safety.
If i cannot find any pain/have any improvement in the near future, i will do the kindest thing for him and let him go peacefully with my vet. I am just trying to do everything I can, i understand the risks i am taking, i dont let anyone else handle him, but i really am running out of options so that is why i have posted on here, as i do know what the last option is i am afraid and i am really struggling to get my head around it. I think if i knew he was in pain, which i do believe he is, it would make the decision a lot clearer in my mind.
 

happyhorse978

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If he’s no different then you can’t rule out pain if he is then you know he’s in significant chronic discomfort .
What you would then you need to think about what you do next very carefully .
Thank you , its so difficult as i think the absolute world of him, we have had some fun times together (before it got this bad) but i am trying my best to be realistic. thank you
 

bonny

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I would never pass him on, because I can only imagine what would happen to him and I would never put him through that, and also i would not risk someone elses safety.
If i cannot find any pain/have any improvement in the near future, i will do the kindest thing for him and let him go peacefully with my vet. I am just trying to do everything I can, i understand the risks i am taking, i dont let anyone else handle him, but i really am running out of options so that is why i have posted on here, as i do know what the last option is i am afraid and i am really struggling to get my head around it. I think if i knew he was in pain, which i do believe he is, it would make the decision a lot clearer in my mind.
As a last resort could you try someone who is used to dealing with racehorses and see what they think ? Understandably it sounds as if you are getting nervous around him which is probably not helping the situation.
 
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