Dangerous / aggressive horse - advice needed?!

[happyhorse978]

No further advise from me im afraid, I only wish that there could be that lightbulb moment for you and your very lucky horse.

I really hope you manage to get to the bottom of things and if unfortunately you have to let your boy go then you have peace that you did everything you could.

I wanted to also say, what absolutely wonderful support from HHO Forum members. There might be arguing/differences of opinions on here sometimes, but when there is a genuine ‘Chips are down’ posting like yours this is the place to be for knowledge & wonderful advice.

Thank you so much. That means a lot! Xx
I also cant believe how lovely people have been, i was so worried about posting but i thought it is certainly worth a go incase others have been through the same , which clearly they have, so i really appreciate everyone's advice and generousity xxx

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I understand completely. Unfortunately not an option for us as he won’t travel anymore and I don’t think it would actually be fair to put him through the trauma of it all bless him. He has started his Danilon trial tonight ??xx

Just a thought, if it doesnt work and you do pts speak to your vet about how much a necropsy would be at a vet hospital?

We had this done for one of my dogs who was randomly agressive. They found a brain tumor in the behavioural part of her brain.

We got it cheaper because the person doing it had a class of vets watching so they could learn. We also gave permission for vet history to be shared with them.

If its not overly expensive it might be a good way, if you are able to do this, to find out but also to teach other new and in training vets about what could cause these symptoms.

A lady i know local did this with her horse who used yo randomly flip out. Mri and xrays all fine. Turned out he had a tumor in his hind gut where the imaging couldnt get to.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Sorry me again , this situation just reminds me so much of my journey! Just don’t do what I did I ended up investing so much money trying to fix the unfixable and ended up in a lot of debt with the outcome of PTS. You have clearly already done so much , see how the trial goes and let us know but make an end point, looking back I wish I’d made the decision sooner. What’s different though is how different your boy is under saddle , mine was much worse to ride and was retired whilst investigating as wasn’t safe. He was also horse aggressive and would charge others who entered the field.

 

[happyhorse978]

Sorry me again , this situation just reminds me so much of my journey! Just don’t do what I did I ended up investing so much money trying to fix the unfixable and ended up in a lot of debt with the outcome of PTS. You have clearly already done so much , see how the trial goes and let us know but make an end point, looking back I wish I’d made the decision sooner. What’s different though is how different your boy is under saddle , mine was much worse to ride and was retired whilst investigating as wasn’t safe. He was also horse aggressive and would charge others who entered the field.

Thank you!
Its so hard isnt it. I just wish i knew so i could make an informed decision.

He was always fantastic under saddle, i only ever hacked/light schooled but he was a really good boy, the nicest horse to ride, best hacking horse ever! However, because he is such a good boy (in everyday life too, when not being aggressive, he is a good lad), part of me wonders if he was just such a good boy would he hide any discomfort / pain, perhaps it would have occured under saddle if he was in harder work? x

 

[Melody Grey]

Just thinking about gut things- Google green clay, it was a game changer for a friend of mine. Also the equi biome test (sorry I don’t know much about it) x

 

[happyhorse978]

Just thinking about gut things- Google green clay, it was a game changer for a friend of mine. Also the equi biome test (sorry I don’t know much about it) x

Thank you ! X

 

[Glitter's fun]

Don't ask your vet "what is wrong with this horse", ask "have we eliminated those things that if we did find them, they would be treatable?" If yes, then sorry but I think you should have him PTS. You and he are both very unhappy so there would be no guilt in putting a stop to this.

 

[happyhorse978]

Don't ask your vet "what is wrong with this horse", ask "have we eliminated those things that if we did find them, they would be treatable?" If yes, then sorry but I think you should have him PTS. You and he are both very unhappy so there would be no guilt in putting a stop to this.

Thank you very much x

 

[Nasicus]

I agree with MO2B in that you need to set an end point. As this thread has demonstrated, there will always be a never ending list of things 'to try', and lord knows you've gone further than most people would have, he's been very lucky to have you.
I would see the results of the bute trial, and if no improvement then call it and PTS.
I'd even argue the money you'd have spent kicking the can down to road so to speak would be better spent on a necropsy to get some answers.

 

[happyhorse978]

I agree with MO2B in that you need to set an end point. As this thread has demonstrated, there will always be a never ending list of things 'to try', and lord knows you've gone further than most people would have, he's been very lucky to have you.
I would see the results of the bute trial, and if no improvement then call it and PTS.
I'd even argue the money you'd have spent kicking the can down to road so to speak would be better spent on a necropsy to get some answers.

Thank you so much x

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have literally nothing useful to add in addition to everything said but just wanted to send a virtual hug xx
Your horse might not realise it, or even appreciate it, but he is the luckiest boy to have found himself in the hands of such a caring, responsible owner. Whatever the outcome of this I wish you the very best xx

 

[happyhorse978]

I have literally nothing useful to add in addition to everything said but just wanted to send a virtual hug xx
Your horse might not realise it, or even appreciate it, but he is the luckiest boy to have found himself in the hands of such a caring, responsible owner. Whatever the outcome of this I wish you the very best xx

Thank you so much that is so kind xxx

 

[happyhorse978]

I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone for being so kind and lovely and offering advice/past experiences/similar situations! I really appreciate each and everyone of you for your time and comments. My boy is currently on a Danilon trial for the next 10 days so we will see if that shows anything up/improves things. I just want to do the best by him, he is my world. If the kindest thing to do is have him peacefully pts, and that is what the vet advises, then that is what i will have to do, despite the fact it will absolutely crush me, i will do whatever is best for him and in his best interests. I just want to rule a couple more things out just incase it does improve something, before I may have to potentially make an informed decision I am hoping and praying with everything I have that I can get to the bottom of this for him, but if not then i will know i have tried everything possible for my boy.

Thank you SO much everyone, what a lovely community xxx

 

[Barton Bounty]

Something in his diet might be irritating his tummy, I removed any grains mixes and soya from my boys feed after he had a crazy episode and the difference is like night and day.
sometimes the behaviours can continue after, might be worth doing some groundwork with him. Just to see if it helps and to rule out learned behaviour ? TBs smell fear and will take advantage of it, which is why many people have trouble with nappy etc, you need to be super confident. I would recommend bentonite clay as well.
Can you try calming cookies? See if that will help any meantime. Takes about 14 days for any supplements to actually start working

 

[happyhorse978]

Something in his diet might be irritating his tummy, I removed any grains mixes and soya from my boys feed after he had a crazy episode and the difference is like night and day.
sometimes the behaviours can continue after, might be worth doing some groundwork with him. Just to see if it helps and to rule out learned behaviour ? TBs smell fear and will take advantage of it, which is why many people have trouble with nappy etc, you need to be super confident. I would recommend bentonite clay as well.
Can you try calming cookies? See if that will help any meantime. Takes about 14 days for any supplements to actually start working

Thank you for the suggestions. I have tried many many different diets and ruled out different ingredients like alfalfa and soya etc, and he never has any grains/cereals or anything, he’s always on a full fibre diet. He has had 12 months of solid groundwork twice daily, I have tried three different behaviourists/horsemanship trainers , it just doesn’t work with regard to the rugging and saddling etc.
I’ve tried calming cookies previously with him but unfortunately this is much much more than that!
Thankyou though x

 

[Barton Bounty]

Thank you for the suggestions. I have tried many many different diets and ruled out different ingredients like alfalfa and soya etc, and he never has any grains/cereals or anything, he’s always on a full fibre diet. He has had 12 months of solid groundwork twice daily, I have tried three different behaviourists/horsemanship trainers , it just doesn’t work with regard to the rugging and saddling etc.
I’ve tried calming cookies previously with him but unfortunately this is much much more than that!
Thankyou though x

Gosh , so sorry ?

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Any difference on the bute trial ?!

 

[happyhorse978]

Any difference on the bute trial ?!

I do think there was a slight difference on the days where he was on a higher amount, however yesterday he dropped down to one bute daily (probably not enough to make a difference for a horse of his size!) and hes gone straight back to being unpredictable yesterday. Stood next to him last night stroking him, he was fine, then next minute like a switch he changed and tried to bite ears pinned back and he really meant it. No warning signs etc. So I guess the bute trial does point toward there being some pain somewhere, but it doesnt help point toward where it is/what it is.
I am going to speak to my vet today and just see where we are at. I want her to just tell me straight her opinion and not be too nice to me - I just need to know what she thinks.
thanks guys I will keep you posted xx

 

[maya2008]

Aggression is not normal behaviour for a prey animal, so in a kind home with appropriate handling, always points towards pain/brain tumour/neuro stuff in my experience. Especially aggression that does harm rather than warning off a less dominant personality.

 

[happyhorse978]

Aggression is not normal behaviour for a prey animal, so in a kind home with appropriate handling, always points towards pain/brain tumour/neuro stuff in my experience. Especially aggression that does harm rather than warning off a less dominant personality.

Thank you, that is what I am thinking. I think there must be something going on neuro wise potentially, tbh I dont even think he knows hes doing it?! Theres not always a rational reason for it, i.e. just stood next to him. will speak to my vet asap. thankyou x

 

[ycbm]

I am going to speak to my vet today and just see where we are at. I want her to just tell me straight her opinion and not be too nice to me - I just need to know what she thinks.

I'm so sorry you're at this point. I find the best question to ask is "what would you do if this was your horse?"

 

[happyhorse978]

I'm so sorry you're at this point. I find the best question to ask is "what would you do if this was your horse?"

Thank you so much x

 

[little_critter]

I'm so sorry you're at this point. I find the best question to ask is "what would you do if this was your horse?"

I was going to say that. Some vets may not answer that question but it's certainly worth asking to get a human / professional point of view.

 

[Billyandme]

• So sorry to read this. I was in a similar position to yourself. Struggled for 6 years with mine. Thousands spent on vet bills. It ended in the worst possible way. I was leading him out to his field when out of the blue he reared up, swung round and landed on my ankle shattering it in several places. Please be kind to yourself and him too. My horse was pts whilst I was in Hospital..

 

[Nasicus]

I do think there was a slight difference on the days where he was on a higher amount, however yesterday he dropped down to one bute daily (probably not enough to make a difference for a horse of his size!) and hes gone straight back to being unpredictable yesterday. Stood next to him last night stroking him, he was fine, then next minute like a switch he changed and tried to bite ears pinned back and he really meant it. No warning signs etc. So I guess the bute trial does point toward there being some pain somewhere, but it doesnt help point toward where it is/what it is.
I am going to speak to my vet today and just see where we are at. I want her to just tell me straight her opinion and not be too nice to me - I just need to know what she thinks.
thanks guys I will keep you posted xx

If there had been a large/significant improvement on the bute, I'd have been inclined to look a little bit more at pain related causes. But a slight improvement isn't enough, if he starts off at awful and slightly improves, he's still only come up to slightly less awful. I really wouldn't be surprised if he has a neurological issue, especially with the sudden flip of the switch behaviour. I really would not judge you in the slightest for having him PTS at this point, an unpredictable horse is a dangerous horse.

 

[happyhorse978]

• So sorry to read this. I was in a similar position to yourself. Struggled for 6 years with mine. Thousands spent on vet bills. It ended in the worst possible way. I was leading him out to his field when out of the blue he reared up, swung round and landed on my ankle shattering it in several places. Please be kind to yourself and him too. My horse was pts whilst I was in Hospital..

Oh no I am so sorry to hear that

 

[happyhorse978]

If there had been a large/significant improvement on the bute, I'd have been inclined to look a little bit more at pain related causes. But a slight improvement isn't enough, if he starts off at awful and slightly improves, he's still only come up to slightly less awful. I really wouldn't be surprised if he has a neurological issue, especially with the sudden flip of the switch behaviour. I really would not judge you in the slightest for having him PTS at this point, an unpredictable horse is a dangerous horse.

Thank you so much. I am also thinking it is neurological now, a few other 'symptoms' are pointing in this direction also! Still waiting for a call off the vet to discuss x

 

[Puzzled]

Have you thoroughly checked teeth….not just a gag in his mouth and a look….X-ray possibly? There was once a mare who was very aggressive and upon being pts it was found her teeth were all wrong and cutting into her….

 

[happyhorse978]

Have you thoroughly checked teeth….not just a gag in his mouth and a look….X-ray possibly? There was once a mare who was very aggressive and upon being pts it was found her teeth were all wrong and cutting into her….

I havent x-rayed the teeth but he has had them properly checked annually and rasped etc, no significant findings and nothing abnormal/of concern x

 

[Ratface]

Hi

I havent x-rayed the teeth but he has had them properly checked annually and rasped etc, no significant findings and nothing abnormal/of concern x

I'm so sorry that you and your horse are going through such dangerous and heartbreaking difficulties.
Many years ago, I stabled in a professional livery yard, alongside a lovely big young dressage horse. Broken in by slowly by a kind, expert horse person, handled by ditto groom, stable hands, work riders, owner.
One day, he picked up his groom and threw her on the ground. Tried to trample her. After everything had been tried and nothing had changed, he was pts. Heartbroken owner had a pm done. He had a pituitary gland tumour.
Your priority must be your safety and your horse's pain-free welfare. Thank you for caring for him with such diligence.

I'm so sorry that you are faced with such a sad ending for you. Be happy that, if it becomes clear that this is