Dangerous / aggressive horse - advice needed?!

I echo what others have mentioned about possible tumours. I’ve read of cases where behaviour can suddenly change in animals.
In humans, pituitary adenomas are fairly common, and they’re mostly unknown until the tumour grows to a size that impinges on nerves, usually optic nerves. This then causes symptoms of cluster migraines and episodes of visual distortions, balance problems Etc. These symptoms mostly occur as episodes, rather than be continuous. I mention this because humans can talk about their symptoms with tumours, animals cant - so it helps give us an idea of what an animal with tumours could be experiencing.
It makes sense that a horse especially with any tumour affecting nerves could be feeling pain, migraines, visual distortions and they’d freak-out suddenly with these type of periodic clustered symptoms. Hence very unpredictable behaviour episodes are common With tumours.

Its a shame he cant travel to be scanned as you seem to, understandably, want an answer what’s truly causing this. Yet the behaviour is very worrying, and you’ve worked so hard to try many avenues.

Im sorry youre going through this, he sounds like a lovely boy when well, evident by your willingness to work hard with him.
Big hug x
 
The only other option id try before giving up is gut supplementation of a mix of good quality probiotics. Have you tried probiotics yets?
My gelding had a period away and returned aggressive, biting and kicking, and didnt like his flanks being touched, or being groomed.
At that time i was into gut health and started him on a variety of safe grasses mixed meadow hay, with probiotics and magnesium in speedibeet….aswell as a general multi minerals to off-set the deficiencies of zinc/copper etc that are common in just forage diets.

He improved a lot from that adjustment.

His behaviour was not lunging aggression at any point, and that for me is a red flag its something more serious with your boy, but on the off chance his hindgut is really off kilter, and he’s just super-reactive with it, probiotics can help rebalance and populate.

I get some periodic gut issues and when in pain and bloated im far more likely to over-react, be highly reactive, (some may say aggressive ?) than when im good in the gut. I loathe gut pain.
 
This sounds awful, I'm really sorry that you're dealing with this.

I've not read all of the replies, so apologies if I'm reiterating something that has already been suggested, but could it be diabetes?

It sounds a little left field, but my old dog was diagnosed with diabetes and his behaviour changed almost overnight just like this. Suddenly he was very aggressive and had to be muzzled on walks, but once we had got a handle on his insulin he was much better.

I had a little Google to make sure I'm not talking complete crap and the symptoms are apparently similar in horses, though diabetes in horses is so rare that it doesn't seem to be mentioned very often. Maybe something worth looking into?
 
PurBee said:
I echo what others have mentioned about possible tumours. I’ve read of cases where behaviour can suddenly change in animals.
In humans, pituitary adenomas are fairly common, and they’re mostly unknown until the tumour grows to a size that impinges on nerves, usually optic nerves. This then causes symptoms of cluster migraines and episodes of visual distortions, balance problems Etc. These symptoms mostly occur as episodes, rather than be continuous. I mention this because humans can talk about their symptoms with tumours, animals cant - so it helps give us an idea of what an animal with tumours could be experiencing.
It makes sense that a horse especially with any tumour affecting nerves could be feeling pain, migraines, visual distortions and they’d freak-out suddenly with these type of periodic clustered symptoms. Hence very unpredictable behaviour episodes are common With tumours.

Its a shame he cant travel to be scanned as you seem to, understandably, want an answer what’s truly causing this. Yet the behaviour is very worrying, and you’ve worked so hard to try many avenues.

Im sorry youre going through this, he sounds like a lovely boy when well, evident by your willingness to work hard with him.
Big hug x
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Thankyou so much you are so kind x
 
PurBee said:
The only other option id try before giving up is gut supplementation of a mix of good quality probiotics. Have you tried probiotics yets?
My gelding had a period away and returned aggressive, biting and kicking, and didnt like his flanks being touched, or being groomed.
At that time i was into gut health and started him on a variety of safe grasses mixed meadow hay, with probiotics and magnesium in speedibeet….aswell as a general multi minerals to off-set the deficiencies of zinc/copper etc that are common in just forage diets.

He improved a lot from that adjustment.

His behaviour was not lunging aggression at any point, and that for me is a red flag its something more serious with your boy, but on the off chance his hindgut is really off kilter, and he’s just super-reactive with it, probiotics can help rebalance and populate.

I get some periodic gut issues and when in pain and bloated im far more likely to over-react, be highly reactive, (some may say aggressive ?) than when im good in the gut. I loathe gut pain.
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HI thank you, he has been on pre and pro biotics since I have had him. I have tried some 'stronger' formulations but again not made any difference. thank you very much though! I am in discussion with trying him on some meds for the hindgut once this Danilon trial has finished if it is inconclusive but we will see if this shows anything up first. thankyou xx
 
Pmf27 said:
This sounds awful, I'm really sorry that you're dealing with this.

I've not read all of the replies, so apologies if I'm reiterating something that has already been suggested, but could it be diabetes?

It sounds a little left field, but my old dog was diagnosed with diabetes and his behaviour changed almost overnight just like this. Suddenly he was very aggressive and had to be muzzled on walks, but once we had got a handle on his insulin he was much better.

I had a little Google to make sure I'm not talking complete crap and the symptoms are apparently similar in horses, though diabetes in horses is so rare that it doesn't seem to be mentioned very often. Maybe something worth looking into?
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Thank you, i dont think it would be this as he doesnt have any of the other symptoms, i have just had a quick look on google. thank you very much though :) xx
 
ponynutz said:
How's he doing on his trial?

Another for PTS in this occasion unfortunately but I commend you for doing justice by him - stronger than me x
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He only started yesterday evening so hes had some last night and this morning, so hopefully will be starting to build up in his system now, it will be interesting to see what he is like later on. thank you so much xx
 
Your story is bringing back all the memories of going through a horrible time like this - which I have had to do twice (once with an ex-racer) - so I feel desperately for you. You are doing all you can and he is a lucky boy to have someone who cares so much. Sadly, sometimes we only get the diagnosis when we can search thoroughly after PTS - but that is no consolation to you now.

This may not work for you but what worked for me was to go through all the medical advice again in my head, make sure I had tried all reasonable options, got a second veterinary opinion - and then my last throw of the dice was to ask Robert Pring (an animal communicator) to "read" the situation for me (in one case it had to be from a photo). I know you say you have seen an AC but I don't know who you used. The answers I got told me the situation was not fixable and that the pain was unbearable. I would never take pts or medical action on the basis of a reading from an AC alone but, as the last final desperate search for knowledge to know that I was doing the right thing to let my 2 go, it gave me peace of mind that I was doing the right thing.
 
Ron fields nutrition have some ulcer supplements which can make a big difference to some horses. A bute trial may help but if its a stomach issue can make things worse. You sound like a great owner who is trying to to the best for your horse. Im sure you have checked all the obvious. Teeth, back etc. Is he shod? I would not feed alfalfa. It can send some horses loopy. Good luck. I hope you get some answers. Has he had his sheath cleaned? Could it be something as simple as a bean? Just trying to think of things to check.
 
Trouper said:
Your story is bringing back all the memories of going through a horrible time like this - which I have had to do twice (once with an ex-racer) - so I feel desperately for you. You are doing all you can and he is a lucky boy to have someone who cares so much. Sadly, sometimes we only get the diagnosis when we can search thoroughly after PTS - but that is no consolation to you now.

This may not work for you but what worked for me was to go through all the medical advice again in my head, make sure I had tried all reasonable options, got a second veterinary opinion - and then my last throw of the dice was to ask Robert Pring (an animal communicator) to "read" the situation for me (in one case it had to be from a photo). I know you say you have seen an AC but I don't know who you used. The answers I got told me the situation was not fixable and that the pain was unbearable. I would never take pts or medical action on the basis of a reading from an AC alone but, as the last final desperate search for knowledge to know that I was doing the right thing to let my 2 go, it gave me peace of mind that I was doing the right thing.
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Thank you so so much. I am so sorry to hear about your situation too , its so difficult isnt it xx
 
Sandstone1 said:
Ron fields nutrition have some ulcer supplements which can make a big difference to some horses. A bute trial may help but if its a stomach issue can make things worse. You sound like a great owner who is trying to to the best for your horse. Im sure you have checked all the obvious. Teeth, back etc. Is he shod? I would not feed alfalfa. It can send some horses loopy. Good luck. I hope you get some answers. Has he had his sheath cleaned? Could it be something as simple as a bean? Just trying to think of things to check.
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Thank you!
Teeth back etc all seem fine (teeth done recently, all fine )He is shod infront but not great to shoe, will tolerate it for a minute then pull back but luckily my farrier is understanding. I have tried him on and off alfalfa feeds but there has been no difference. His sheath area etc is super clean he keeps himself very clean I have never known a gelding like it! Bless him x

thank you for the suggestions xx
 
happyhorse978 said:
Thank you!
Teeth back etc all seem fine (teeth done recently, all fine )He is shod infront but not great to shoe, will tolerate it for a minute then pull back but luckily my farrier is understanding. I have tried him on and off alfalfa feeds but there has been no difference. His sheath area etc is super clean he keeps himself very clean I have never known a gelding like it! Bless him x

thank you for the suggestions xx
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Sometimes they can have beans stuck up there even if clean. Might be worth checking? Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it.
 
I don't really have any advice but just wanted to say I'm sorry your in this situation it's so sad and you sound like such a lovely caring person, I really hope you manage to get to the bottom of his issues.
 
Let us know how you get on with the Danilon trial! You could try adding some Aloe Vera to the feed which may help sooth the tummy whilst taking the meds. It’s supposed to be quite good for ulcers too, and seems to be relatively inexpensive.
I think if I was in your shoes, I’d probably also try a Vitamin E supplement after the bute trial just to see if it did have an effect, (somebody with more knowledge than me would be able to suggest a product/dose).
But well done you for being such a caring owner. Your horse is very very lucky to have somebody so understanding and willing. Please stay safe!
 
It's awful having to PTS without a diagnosis. I spent 15 months trying to get to the bottom of my daughter's pony's issues - including scoping, MRI, xrays, scinitigraphy and much else. Nothing ever explained how she presented and in the end I called it a day. But it was so hard as there is always something else that could be explored. So actually making the call to draw the line was tough. But afterwards I only felt relief and have never regretted it. Despite the loss being heart breaking for my daughter. Sending you a virtual hug x
 
Rosietaz said:
Let us know how you get on with the Danilon trial! You could try adding some Aloe Vera to the feed which may help sooth the tummy whilst taking the meds. It’s supposed to be quite good for ulcers too, and seems to be relatively inexpensive.
I think if I was in your shoes, I’d probably also try a Vitamin E supplement after the bute trial just to see if it did have an effect, (somebody with more knowledge than me would be able to suggest a product/dose).
But well done you for being such a caring owner. Your horse is very very lucky to have somebody so understanding and willing. Please stay safe!
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Thank you so much for the advice! It is much appreicated xx
 
Ambers Echo said:
It's awful having to PTS without a diagnosis. I spent 15 months trying to get to the bottom of my daughter's pony's issues - including scoping, MRI, xrays, scinitigraphy and much else. Nothing ever explained how she presented and in the end I called it a day. But it was so hard as there is always something else that could be explored. So actually making the call to draw the line was tough. But afterwards I only felt relief and have never regretted it. Despite the loss being heart breaking for my daughter. Sending you a virtual hug x
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Thank you so much, i am so sorry to hear about your pony. Its so hard isnt it. I wish they could talk! xx
 
Sorry I can’t give any advice. Such a tough situation.. you must be such an amazing owner to put up with this day in and day out.

We did have one horse (purchased to be sold!) where I worked years ago that would be fine, then suddenly turn. If being handled would bolt, in the stable would just suddenly jump over the door and could be aggressive. We thought she just had a tough start. I left but was later told it didn’t improve, CT scans showed a growth (tumour) in the brain so she was PTS.
 
I also have no additional advice to offer but, as with babymare above, I want to say you have been/are doing everything you can for your horse - so many people would have given up by now. I really hope you find the answers you need to help you be sure of your decision, whatever it turns out to be.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Sorry I can’t give any advice. Such a tough situation.. you must be such an amazing owner to put up with this day in and day out.

We did have one horse (purchased to be sold!) where I worked years ago that would be fine, then suddenly turn. If being handled would bolt, in the stable would just suddenly jump over the door and could be aggressive. We thought she just had a tough start. I left but was later told it didn’t improve, CT scans showed a growth (tumour) in the brain so she was PTS.
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Thank you so much. xx
 
Merrymoles said:
I also have no additional advice to offer but, as with babymare above, I want to say you have been/are doing everything you can for your horse - so many people would have given up by now. I really hope you find the answers you need to help you be sure of your decision, whatever it turns out to be.
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thank you so much you're very kind xxx
 
I also have no additional advice to offer and can see you are trying very hard to do the best for your horse. Whatever you do next I'm sure it will be right thing for you both.

The only 'outside the box' suggestion I can make is a visit from Robert Pring a well respected animal communicator. He just observes your horse over the stable door and gave me alot of information about my horses aches and pains.
 
No further advise from me im afraid, I only wish that there could be that lightbulb moment for you and your very lucky horse.

I really hope you manage to get to the bottom of things and if unfortunately you have to let your boy go then you have peace that you did everything you could.

I wanted to also say, what absolutely wonderful support from HHO Forum members. There might be arguing/differences of opinions on here sometimes, but when there is a genuine ‘Chips are down’ posting like yours this is the place to be for knowledge & wonderful advice.
 
Sealine said:
I also have no additional advice to offer and can see you are trying very hard to do the best for your horse. Whatever you do next I'm sure it will be right thing for you both.

The only 'outside the box' suggestion I can make is a visit from Robert Pring a well respected animal communicator. He just observes your horse over the stable door and gave me alot of information about my horses aches and pains.
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Thank you very much! I will definitely consider this option as well. Thankyou again xx
 
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