Dangerous horse help

[Spoiled cob]

I have a 13 yr 15.3 cob, he was ok when I tried him, hadn’t been in proper work but we hacked out and he was ok. I didn’t mind putting the work in but once we got him home it became apparent he had some issues. I thought I could work with him but we just never make any progress. He has a complete breakdown if you try to clip him, desensitisation hasn’t worked. Same breakdown if you try to wash him. He would happily flatten you. He has sweet itch and the farrier believes he has hoof wall separation disease, he’s trimmed monthly and has only recently started behaving for the farrier. He can’t be shod and no hoof boots will fit him. He hates being schooled and will attempt to buck you off if pushed, it’s definitely a learned behaviour. We were hacking but obviously the condition of his feet limit this so I’ve just left him as a field ornament. Today I attempted to wash him off as it’s so hot and he was sweating and he completely lost it again, each time I’m just escaping from being badly hurt and I’m reaching the point where I’m thinking it would be better to PTS before something happens. I know I should just leave him alone but it’s sad when a quick wash for example would make him feel so much better. I’ve given him 6 years but I’m getting fed up of paying for everything for a horse I can’t do literally anything with. Does anyone have any experience of PTS for behaviour issues?

 

[Cortez]

I have a 13 yr 15.3 cob, he was ok when I tried him, hadn’t been in proper work but we hacked out and he was ok. I didn’t mind putting the work in but once we got him home it became apparent he had some issues. I thought I could work with him but we just never make any progress. He has a complete breakdown if you try to clip him, desensitisation hasn’t worked. Same breakdown if you try to wash him. He would happily flatten you. He has sweet itch and the farrier believes he has hoof wall separation disease, he’s trimmed monthly and has only recently started behaving for the farrier. He can’t be shod and no hoof boots will fit him. He hates being schooled and will attempt to buck you off if pushed, it’s definitely a learned behaviour. We were hacking but obviously the condition of his feet limit this so I’ve just left him as a field ornament. Today I attempted to wash him off as it’s so hot and he was sweating and he completely lost it again, each time I’m just escaping from being badly hurt and I’m reaching the point where I’m thinking it would be better to PTS before something happens. I know I should just leave him alone but it’s sad when a quick wash for example would make him feel so much better. I’ve given him 6 years but I’m getting fed up of paying for everything for a horse I can’t do literally anything with. Does anyone have any experience of PTS for behaviour issues?

Yes, but I have even more experience of getting the right trainer for a horse with handling and riding issues. Have you contacted an experienced professional trainer?

 

[meleeka]

You’ve owned him for 6 years?

You don’t mention if he’s seen a vet to rule out physical issues? What was he like to hack? Having recently bought boots for a Friesian mare, it’s unlikely that there isn’t a boot that will fit him.

He sounds quite insecure. How much time do you spend with him doing things that don’t involve things he’s not comfortable with? I have an old mare that I just couldn’t wash, so there’s no point in trying (she’s 30’s so definitely not worth the time involved in teaching her it’s not going to hurt). It’s really not the end of the world and she’s happy with everything else.

I’m guessing you just aren’t a good match. What you do about that depends on what his positive qualities are and how much you want to invest to get him to the point of being able to rehome him.

 

[Birker2020]

I have a 13 yr 15.3 cob, he was ok when I tried him, hadn’t been in proper work but we hacked out and he was ok. I didn’t mind putting the work in but once we got him home it became apparent he had some issues. I thought I could work with him but we just never make any progress. He has a complete breakdown if you try to clip him, desensitisation hasn’t worked. Same breakdown if you try to wash him. He would happily flatten you. He has sweet itch and the farrier believes he has hoof wall separation disease, he’s trimmed monthly and has only recently started behaving for the farrier. He can’t be shod and no hoof boots will fit him. He hates being schooled and will attempt to buck you off if pushed, it’s definitely a learned behaviour. We were hacking but obviously the condition of his feet limit this so I’ve just left him as a field ornament. Today I attempted to wash him off as it’s so hot and he was sweating and he completely lost it again, each time I’m just escaping from being badly hurt and I’m reaching the point where I’m thinking it would be better to PTS before something happens. I know I should just leave him alone but it’s sad when a quick wash for example would make him feel so much better. I’ve given him 6 years but I’m getting fed up of paying for everything for a horse I can’t do literally anything with. Does anyone have any experience of PTS for behaviour issues?

I didn't want to read and run and just wanted to say that you should not feel guilty about putting a horse to sleep because he is dangerous to be around.

You could always speak to your vet and see if he suspects the horse might be suffering from something. My physio told me that horses that are in pain from something can be hyper vigilant and will react very strongly over something that other horses that are comfortable would not.

I doubt you would be able to claim his value via your insurance company as the BEVA euthanasia guilde lines are pretty specific. I managed to get pay out on my 10yr old wobblers horse for example as the consultant at Liverpool said he felt he was too dangerous to handle and he had a guarded to poor prognosis as he was Grade 3 touching on Grade 4. I wanted to keep him as a field pet but the consultant said he could have fallen on me at any time. And he could have become recumbent and I didn't want that for him, he was my heart horse.

I got his full value. I know it is not all about the money you can make from them, but obviously most of us are one horse owners and are reliant on this.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I don't understand why you are persisting with doing things to him that you know he hates, when they are not necessary. Washing him would NOT be on my list of priorities with this horse. Has a vet seen him?, If so when?

 

[Caol Ila]

If he doesn’t accept the hose, then don’t. I haven’t got around to desensitising my ex-feral to the hose so I use a bucket and a sponge if I really need to wash him down.

 

[Ratface]

I'm sorry that you and your horse are going through this.

Did you have a pre-purchase 5-stage vetting by an experienced equine veterinarian? If so, was anything picked up at the time?

If not, I would suggest that you contact one now and request a visit/examination.
Until you can rule out physical pain-related behaviours, I think that you won't know what is best for either you or your horse.
Many years ago, I stabled at a yard where the YO's lovely, biddable dressage horse became dangerously aggressive.
Veterinarian attended, physical examination showed nothing abnormal. Veterinarian then did X-rays from nose to tail. Horse had an unoperable brain tumour and was pts immediately.
In my opinion, until you have an expert equine veterinarian opinion, and treatment options and/or recommendations you will be unable to know what to do for the best for your own and your horse's safety and welfare.

 

[Spoiled cob]

he’s been checked and no issues that we are aware of without spending a lot of money investigating further.

He’s not insured so not worried about claiming for anything.

Hes at home so the majority of the time I can manage the risk but if he doesn’t like something then he could do serious injury as he is built like a tank. Just getting him to and from the paddocks can be bad enough.


Yes not clipping or bathing isn’t the be all and end all but there is no enjoyment there and due to that he’s just become a field ornament as he’s a liability. I can’t do anything nice with him or for him. Like today, I just wanted to be able to cool him off and he could have very badly hurt me, I’m still shaking and I’m used to handling big heavy powerful horses.

He managed to destroy a gate post the other week and got into the paddock with my mini pony which he became very aggressive with and could’ve killed. Despite being turned out next to him for the past 6 years.

He hacks out ok but can’t do it all the time because of his hooves, they will literally just start falling apart. I measured and there were no boots big enough and then that depends on if I could even get them on him without a meltdown.

im just reaching the end of my tether with him.

 

[Spoiled cob]

If he doesn’t accept the hose, then don’t. I haven’t got around to desensitising my ex-feral to the hose so I use a bucket and a sponge if I really need to wash him down.

he won’t even tolerate that Or I would. The hose is safer for me as I don’t have to be as close to him

 

[Hallo2012]

sounds like he needs some serious groundwork training as he basically has no manners and no idea what you want and is also probably bored.

Hoof wall separation disease is pretty specific to connemara ponies i think? (happy to be corrected) what have you tried to improve the feet?

 

[Horseysheepy]

Life is too short (and precious). Maybe it's time to really come to terms with what you are dealing with here.
As others have said, it could a health issue, pain, or bad behaviour/behavioural issue, or a combination of them all.
But the bottom line is that you could get hurt and how long are you willing to go on like this?.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Bit random... but could the sweet itch mean he has extremely sensitive skin and cannot tolerate water or clipping because of that?

 

[Spoiled cob]

sounds like he needs some serious groundwork training as he basically has no manners and no idea what you want and is also probably bored.

Hoof wall separation disease is pretty specific to connemara ponies i think? (happy to be corrected) what have you tried to improve the feet?

Not just specific to connemaras, I’ve tried everything - supplements feeds etc and no improvement which is the case if it is Separation disease. Previous farriers have removed the affected hoof wall and left him lame but our current one is brilliant and Monthly trims keep them up together but they do fall apart at every opportunity

 

[Quigleyandme]

I can read your despair and the latest incident happened just before you posted but the horse is only 13 and thought healthy so PTS seems a shame. Were you just feeling at the end of your tether in the moment? Have you tried a pro, clicker training or a programme of groundwork?

 

[Puddock]

Sorry for derailing - but I have a pair of Old Mac G2 hoofboots in size 12 looking for a new home. I had to import them from the US and they’re basically draft-sized. I think they are still the biggest commercially available boots that you can buy. Just a thought.

 

[Spoiled cob]

Bit random... but could the sweet itch mean he has extremely sensitive skin and cannot tolerate water or clipping because of that?[/QUOTE

Life is too short (and precious). Maybe it's time to really come to terms with what you are dealing with here.
As others have said, it could a health issue, pain, or bad behaviour/behavioural issue, or a combination of them all.
But the bottom line is that you could get hurt and how long are you willing to go on like this?.

This is what im thinking, i can’t keep risking myself handling him which is why I’m doing less and less with him and yes he’s ok as a field ornament but when do you draw the line. My other boy is a dear, he lost his eye last year and has struggled a bit but he loves any interaction, to be brushed clipped washed etc

 

[Spoiled cob]

I can read your despair and the latest incident happened just before you posted but the horse is only 13 and thought healthy so PTS seems a shame. Were you just feeling at the end of your tether in the moment? Have you tried a pro, clicker training or a programme of groundwork?

I’ve tried pretty much everything and yes I’m at the end of my tether and fed up with having a horse I can’t do anything with that could seriously hurt me without a care about it from him. Today has been the last straw and I’m not sure how much more I can take.

 

[Cortez]

I’ve tried pretty much everything and yes I’m at the end of my tether and fed up with having a horse I can’t do anything with that could seriously hurt me without a care about it from him. Today has been the last straw and I’m not sure how much more I can take.

Have you tried a professional trainer?

 

[smolmaus]

If he truly is dangerous, there is nothing to be ashamed of in giving him a peaceful end at home where he is safe and happy. Passing him on would be ethically questionable if there is a chance he could seriously hurt someone just with basic daily handling to/from the field and who knows where he could end up. If you can't afford, or would resent, keeping him as a field ornament, it's not like he will know any different. But if he is sane enough to be hacked out, and his problems are mostly on the ground I don't think he sounds like a completely lost cause. There must be a trainable brain in there somewhere.

The only risk is that when it's said and done, you regret not trying something, be that a behaviourist, a totally different style or training or additional medical intervention. Only you can say if you're likely to have regrets.

 

[meleeka]

Is he turned out with others or alone? Horses don’t generally try and be naughty. I can understand you are at the end of your tether, but I expect he feels just as stressed as you.

 

[Hallo2012]

everything

Not just specific to connemaras, I’ve tried everything - supplements feeds etc and no improvement which is the case if it is Separation disease. Previous farriers have removed the affected hoof wall and left him lame but our current one is brilliant and Monthly trims keep them up together but they do fall apart at every opportunity

everything I'm reading points to this being a genetic issue in connemaras? so id say the foot issue needs re looking at tbh.

and what is he actually doing? biting, kicking, running over the top of you etc?
its very hard to say for sure but he just sounds to be lacking education and knows that he can very much push you around.

 

[Antw23uk]

It sounds like you have a bolshy horse who has no idea about leading but yet feels he has to and is, obviously, getting it very very wrong! I echo Cortez, have you had a professional in to help you? Putting aside the hoof issue, this sounds like a serious lack of education on both you and the horses part!

 

[Dave's Mam]

My first point of call after the vet would be a good trainer. Good help is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Spoiled cob]

everything


everything I'm reading points to this being a genetic issue in connemaras? so id say the foot issue needs re looking at tbh.

and what is he actually doing? biting, kicking, running over the top of you etc?
its very hard to say for sure but he just sounds to be lacking education and knows that he can very much push you around.

He goes into a complete blind panic with no regard for you, himself or his location. I have never allowed him to push me around but he goes into this state and is a danger to anyone around him and himself.
The foot issue has been looked into and I believe my farrier and what he is telling me, his feet have never improved and all other farriers have just left him lane thinking they can correct it.

 

[Spoiled cob]

Is he turned out with others or alone? Horses don’t generally try and be naughty. I can understand you are at the end of your tether, but I expect he feels just as stressed as you.

Individual turnout, he nearly killed my mini and my other boy is partially blind so he won’t be going out with others, they can interact over the fence

 

[Orangehorse]

Someone like an experienced Kelly Marks person or Michael Pearce. They should have enough experience to tell you whether he is worth spending more time and training on, or it really is not going to be a good outcome for the horse and it would be better to call it a day and PTS.

Having a horse is supposed to be fun, and I know from personal experience that it sometimes is no fun at all if you are dreading doing anything with the horse.

 

[Spoiled cob]

It sounds like you have a bolshy horse who has no idea about leading but yet feels he has to and is, obviously, getting it very very wrong! I echo Cortez, have you had a professional in to help you? Putting aside the hoof issue, this sounds like a serious lack of education on both you and the horses part!

This isn’t bolshy this is a blind panic where he is a danger to anyone around him. I have had professional help with no improvement. Lack of education or not I am at the end of my tether with a horse that is dangerous and can’t be sold on and today has just topped it all off.

I’m sorry I’m not up to your standards but I can’t afford to be badly hurt as I’d like to keep my job and have bills to pay including those for keeping him.

 

[Spoiled cob]

Someone like an experienced Kelly Marks person or Michael Pearce. They should have enough experience to tell you whether he is worth spending more time and training on, or it really is not going to be a good outcome for the horse and it would be better to call it a day and PTS.

Having a horse is supposed to be fun, and I know from personal experience that it sometimes is no fun at all if you are dreading doing anything with the horse.

I would like someone like that to come but I don’t have the thousands to spend on him as I have others to keep and bills to pay. He can stay a field or ornament for now but it’s not fun to have a horse you can’t do anything nice with or for and I’m at the end of my tether and feeling rubbish about it all. Plus if I get hurt I don’t have anyone that can care for them so I don’t want to end up in that situation.
I’ve tried all the recommended desensitisation training but he never makes any improvement. He had a meltdown about a clicker and sometimes it’s not worth the battle.

 

[catembi]

Out of interest, what 'professional help' have you had and how often? E.g. 'normal' riding instructor, a behaviouralist, a groundwork specialist, one-off or once/twice a week with homework for a few months? I have had a behaviouralist out to two or three of mine as I recognised that I needed some help and needed to learn some new skills & it's so reassuring to see someone once a week or whatever and feel that you have back-up and a proper plan.

 

[PurBee]

It sounds like you dont like this horse anymore, and those vibes projected at any animal, they sense, and will react off of.

It sounds like you need to treat him as feral - start with the basics of groundwork training, being safe just standing in your space etc..expect nothing from him, just being calm in your space, and you calm too. Build from there.

He’s not the horse you thought you were buying, cant do what you imagined, he was put to grass and now is bolshier than ever at being told to do anything, understandably. The problems weren’t corrected when they arose, and as a reward for bad behaviour he gets put in a field, which is what he wants - so he's learning from you bad behaviour gets him thrown in the field to be *free to do as he wants *without human interference.

He wont train himself out in the field - and field time doesnt wipe their memory so you can one day suddenly do an activity hes shown before he’s very scared of (hose down).

I’d seriously get in a professional trainer with him now, as you sound out of your depth and scared of him, which is understandable as horses are large heavy animals and when they throw a tantrum (for whatever reason) safety of all can sometimes be at risk. But i would never endorse or encourage anyone PTS any animal with recent learned behaviour problems, that has not even seen a series of professionals - vet/physio/trainer.

This horse was hackable by you, then deteriorated for some reason. He’s not born ‘bad’. Was able to be ridden even. He’s therefore trainable.

A trainer is the first call i’d make, so they can assess him, as they often deal with problem behaviours all the time. Some things we cant do ourselves and have to out-source help from professionals. Your methods arent working, so a fresh pair of eyes can often be hugely helpful.

Whatever diet he’s on - strip it back to basics - grass/hay/haylage - forage and basic powder mix pelleted minerals/water.

I just cut-out a basic mineral mix from my horses diet as it was an in-fill as stock low from the usual one i import - within the week they became more ‘scatty’ due to soy carrier ingredient used for pellets.
Cut out alfalfa/soy/cooked cereals/copra/beet etc….see how he is if he is on any of these ingredients currently - many horses on this forum owned have sensitivity to these common horse food ingredients.