Elf On A Shelf
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So basically (from a very quick Google search) a dun has a dorsal stripe a buckskin does not in 99% of cases. Otherwise they look the same (except for the fantastic array of dun colourings in Highlands...)
Dilutes in the Hunter Ring
- Thread starter mcjberkshire
- Start date
So basically (from a very quick Google search) a dun has a dorsal stripe a buckskin does not in 99% of cases. Otherwise they look the same (except for the fantastic array of dun colourings in Highlands...)
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Depends on the class, some classes it's just a requirement that the horse has previously competed, I was being a bit glib in my reply.
The Xmas Furry
Living in 🦄 🦄 land
You do! Friend has an absolutely cracking black C that's done very well over the last 2 years and a 3yr old already doing well this year.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
Lol- from having a grey show horse in classes mainly of bays, being different is good when they are going nicely and stand out from the others....
ester
Not slacking multitasking
It seems to me that the dun fans get more riled about the terminology ?.
Im always just baffled why people don’t want to describe things/anything accurately ?
Im always just baffled why people don’t want to describe things/anything accurately ?
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Not quite, the body colour is different. Duns will often have primitive markings and darker face mask. Mane and tails can be lighter whereas in buckskin they are black. The points are the same. Its not uncommon for buckskin to have a dorsal stripe which is actually countershading. A dun dorsal will run right down and through the tail.
And by dun you mean bay dun. Dun can act on every other colour as well, so chestnut with dun, black with dun, etc whereas all buckskin are bay with a cream gene.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
And god help you if you point out their pretty coloured pony is greying out ? ?
COldNag
Wasting my time successfully....
Thanks for a good explanation - I was brought up in the era where they were all duns, so I do get confused
ester
Not slacking multitasking
It’s going to get wild when people realise there is also nd (not dun) versions ?
Auslander
Well-Known Member
I've known one palomino who I think would have cut it as a MW hunter at County level. He was by Jet Set, who is by Jumbo. Carolyn Bates at the Graffham Stud did quite a lot of experimenting to try and breed good quality buckskin and palomino sports horses with Jumbo blood.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I don't know, only Dun was used here but not sure how long they have been using both in the US.
Even without the genetic knowledge, while a bay dun is similar to a buckskin, on other colours a chestnut dun is nothing like a palomino or grulla like smokey black. So people must have observed that a buckskin stallion would have thrown certain colours and a dun stallion others and something was going in even if they didn't understand the genetics.
I think the difference is that in the US various dilute colours have been prized in various breeds so there is more interest in understanding and naming them.
This discussion is about how narrow the range of acceptable colours in traditional showing circles and this feeds down generally into being a bit dismissive of other colours and not wanting to understand them.
Elf On A Shelf
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I did see that mentioned further down the page I skimmed through and said "nope! Not today thanks!" ??
palo1
Well-Known Member
Llanarth breed flashy blacks and the Nebo and Derwen lines also breed the flashy blacks (black or v dark bay with blazes and preferably 4 white socks). My Welshie was considered by her breeder to be not a particularly hopeful showing prospect, not because she is v v dark bay but because of the lack of white markings. At the moment though I think flashy chestnuts etc are more popular in Welsh showing. Danaway Crackling Rose (a big winner) is also a popular sort of 'look'!
Fascinated to know now what colour stallion @milliepops has chosen for her pally Welsh....
ester
Not slacking multitasking
50:50 chance of a pally foal
photo_jo
Well-Known Member
That the one by I Was Framed?
Elf On A Shelf
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Yes. Nice looking horse behind the head - I don't like his face markings ???
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
yup, pally stally and i don't mind either colour50:50 chance of a pally foal
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
Though pally stally on pally mare also has 25% of cremello.yup, pally stally and i don't mind either colour
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
mine is chestnut
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
Maesmynach stud breed black sec Ds. (Also over height ones)
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Me on my 17.2hh coloured 'lightweight hunter'. (We did the hunter classes and the coloureds classes just to make it more worthwhile going).
We qualified for both hunter and coloured classes at the Sunshine Tour but didn't get placed in either class on the day. No surprises, he was a bit of a wonky donkey when you stood him up square... and a wobbler so not very straight movement either in some respects.
We had fun though and he was still the kindest most enjoyable horse I've ever owned. (ETA: please excuse my hands here, I was trying to get him to unfold his head from his chest - a tension thing he did!)
We qualified for both hunter and coloured classes at the Sunshine Tour but didn't get placed in either class on the day. No surprises, he was a bit of a wonky donkey when you stood him up square... and a wobbler so not very straight movement either in some respects.
We had fun though and he was still the kindest most enjoyable horse I've ever owned. (ETA: please excuse my hands here, I was trying to get him to unfold his head from his chest - a tension thing he did!)
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
mine is chestnut
Ah. I saw a mention of a pally Welsh, sorry.mine is chestnut
ester
Not slacking multitasking
If I didn’t get the % right we have a problem ?.
I was just trying to subtley answer the question as wasn’t sure whether MP would mind me saying stallion colour
I was just trying to subtley answer the question as wasn’t sure whether MP would mind me saying stallion colour
palo1
Well-Known Member
Sorry, my fault! @milliepops horse is deffo a chestnut but she is a lovely golden shade of it which made me write pally - totally incorrectly lol!!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
She’s pink, clearly ?
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Americans do differentiate between dun and buckskin, pretty much in the way that I'm Dun described above. The knowledgeable ones anyway!
Hermosa and Caso are apparently nd1. They look like bays with a dorsal stripe. I guess that means that while the phenotype looks bay, genetically, it's not the same as bay? Once you get to nd and nd1, it gets baffling.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don’t think ID said they didn’t differentiate?
There’s nd1 and nd2 as identified variations at the dun locus in addition to D (dun)
nd1= primitive markings, no real dilution but likely some connection with cream ear fluff on blacks
Nd2 = nothing
There’s nd1 and nd2 as identified variations at the dun locus in addition to D (dun)
nd1= primitive markings, no real dilution but likely some connection with cream ear fluff on blacks
Nd2 = nothing
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
No, she didn't say that. But someone else suggested that Americans call any horse of that colouring buckskin, and that dun is British and buckskin is American. They don't, and as far as I know, it isn't. I grew up with some awareness of what a dun horse was, long before I ever came here. I didn't know how the genetics worked, but I knew that duns could have dorsal stripes, leg bars, shoulder bars, mane and tail highlights, and buckskins didn't. I also knew that duns came in a range of colours -- grulla, yellow dun, cream dun, etc. while a buckskin is always a shade of that sandy colour.
That said, there are plenty of Americans who (incorrectly) interchangeably use both words to describe any sandy-coloured horse with black points. But dun is absolutely a word used there, nonetheless. It's not like other British horse words (rug, numnah, headcollar, livery yard), which Yanks won't have come across at all.
As a colour-related digression, I still find it challenging to call brown-and-white or black-and-white horses "coloured." The word is so heavily loaded with racist connotations in American English. I cringe a little every time I use it. But if I say, "Who's the new paint/pinto in the wee boys' field?" British people look confused. So I sometimes have to!
That said, there are plenty of Americans who (incorrectly) interchangeably use both words to describe any sandy-coloured horse with black points. But dun is absolutely a word used there, nonetheless. It's not like other British horse words (rug, numnah, headcollar, livery yard), which Yanks won't have come across at all.
As a colour-related digression, I still find it challenging to call brown-and-white or black-and-white horses "coloured." The word is so heavily loaded with racist connotations in American English. I cringe a little every time I use it. But if I say, "Who's the new paint/pinto in the wee boys' field?" British people look confused. So I sometimes have to!
stangs
Well-Known Member
'Skewbald' would work in this context then, no?
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
I'm not proud of being incorrect, it's just the way I was taught and will be the same for others. I'd always use the term dun in conversation to refer to both, because very few of my horsey acquaintances would ever use the term buckskin (or know what I was talking about). I genuinely only know that dun and buckskin are different because of this Forum!