Cortez
Tough but Fair
Plenty of people have repeatedly said "oy!" over many years, but it never seems to make a difference. Perhaps it's not the right people saying it.
Dressage Discussion- FEI removes the principles of dressage (rule 401) and moves to guidelines only, implications for future of dressage.
- Thread starter shortstuff99
- Start date
tristar
Well-Known Member
LDR is sometimes offered by a horse who wants to take the contact down in trot, say, possibly to stretch its back in opposition to working in a higher frame as a rest period, i have a horse who sometimes does this, rarely though so i let him, but he soon comes back up. [of his own accord]
hyperflexion in the true or extreme sense, the horse is held down by the rider, the chin nearly touching the chest.
and all the varying degrees of deep head carriage, some more behind the vertical than others
it seems the worst way when the horse is put down there and forced to stay there, the weight of the rider on its back, the heavy hand holding it there
some horses can go deep while still having their back up
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, it was a rhetorical question. I don't think deliberate (no-one's talking about the odd moment) ldr can be done with the back engaged in a healthy way, the core may be on but that's not the same thing. Just as "but he's not lame" doesn't mean he isn't in an unhealthy movement pattern and is likely to be lame sooner or later because of it. LDR may not be hyperflexion bit it's a technicality and mostly impossible to draw a line between them.
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Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Yeah, they sure have. I started doing dressage and paying attention to it in the late '90s, and people were b1tching about LDR and rollkur back then. Cortez will probably point out it's gone on for longer. It doesn't seem like much has changed. We've certainly not gotten away from people riding like that.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think this is true but I don't think they can operate their shoulder sling as effectively at the same time. Biomechanocally it looks to me as if they need their head out to keep the shoulders open. Like SB, I don't think we've paid enough attention in the past to the fact that the front legs are only held on by soft tissue.
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tristar
Well-Known Member
oh god, surely everyone knows that!
tristar
Well-Known Member
sunday we were watching an advanced medium class warm up, every horse was deep and round and B T V, they were not L D R, or rollkur.
tristar
Well-Known Member
showjumpers have been doing it forever, in various degrees, none of it is anything recent
tristar
Well-Known Member
perhaps it not the right people making the rules.!
many leading members of the classical training community have said oiy, the fei is ignoring them at their peril
get some different eyes, morals, on the FEI dressage committee.
makes you wonder who is voting them into their appointments
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Interesting article on the FEI not adhering to rules
www.eurodressage.com
Thomas Baur: "Are FEI Rules Only 'Guidelines' Now?"
It appears that the FEI rules at CDI competitions are not always being enforced. In the past few months, there have been some pretty strange incidents at several different CDI’s.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Winning horses warm up yesterday from Gothenburg world cup
sbloom
Well-Known Member
We have such a huge gap in understanding of what is good for horses, what keeps them healthy, and what riders and the industry want.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
More videos from the warm up at Gothenburg,
I see RK is alive and well
I see RK is alive and well
sbloom
Well-Known Member
More videos from the warm up at Gothenburg,
I see RK is alive and well
The footage that keeps coming is so depressing.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Disgusting, do we know who the rider on the black horse is? I couldn’t watch much of that… I like dressage but am getting very disillusioned nowadays , it’s so much force !!! I love the way Gareth Hughes rides his lovely mare , Briolinca sorry I’m sure I’ve spelt that wrong, and hate the way so many of the so called top riders pull their horses around ..
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Alleged to be Marc Peter Spahn. I don't know how they do it, so much force, do they not feel bad for the horse or do they truly think it is training and the horse doesn't mind?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The warm up at not Olympia was not great to watch from him either.
Whereas Gareth looked like he was warming up for a hunter class.
Whereas Gareth looked like he was warming up for a hunter class.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
If I had loads of money I would like to buy a horse and let Gareth have it to compete, he is the only one I would trust (apart from CH) going from the way he rides in public..
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
The various videos from the Gothenburg warm-up are very ugly - where is the fun in riding a horse that you need to pull around like that?! If they're heavy on the hand due to poor training, that's the rider's fault. If they're heavy in the hand due to stiffness, it's still the rider's fault. Absolutely no excuse other than a lack of focus on basics and / or poor management.
Even at the lower levels that I ride at, I'd hate it if any of my horses needed riding so roughly or needed to have their nose on their chest to be 'controllable'. I'd be thoroughly embarrassed to be such a poor trainer, and thoroughly ashamed that my horse was that miserable.
Even at the lower levels that I ride at, I'd hate it if any of my horses needed riding so roughly or needed to have their nose on their chest to be 'controllable'. I'd be thoroughly embarrassed to be such a poor trainer, and thoroughly ashamed that my horse was that miserable.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I just can't understand it, they must know that this is not what dressage is about surely? If this is what it takes to win then I guess I won't be winning!
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
Thankfully I'll never ride at that level, what a relief!! The pressure to win (particularly for those riding for the large breeding companies) must be huge.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
The trouble is that they are being marked high, wrongly IMO, but it seems that flashy front leg action is the way to go and it doesn’t matter if the chin is on the chest… I am very sad that high level dressage has come to this and really hope the judges soon come to their senses..
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The trouble is that in the ring, at least to me 
, that horse didn’t have a significantly different way of going to those that weren’t RLk’d in the warm up. It comes back down to stewarding as the fact that the warm ups can now been seen easily by lots of people doesn’t seem to have made much difference as some riders still think it’s ok
, that horse didn’t have a significantly different way of going to those that weren’t RLk’d in the warm up. It comes back down to stewarding as the fact that the warm ups can now been seen easily by lots of people doesn’t seem to have made much difference as some riders still think it’s ok
nikicb
Well-Known Member
The trouble is that in the ring, at least to me
However Gareth and Briolinca came second, only beaten by Lottie, which is great for a horse that is non flashy, even though very correct and sympathetically ridden. (You know how much I love that combination though as you were sitting next to me!!
)
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Yes that was more a you don’t have to be rollkuring your warm up to get a decent result comment.
Maybe it needs to be something that directly and immediately affects results, 10% test penalty if you’re seen doing it
Maybe it needs to be something that directly and immediately affects results, 10% test penalty if you’re seen doing it
nikicb
Well-Known Member
Yes that was more a you don’t have to be rollkuring your warm up to get a decent result comment.
Maybe it needs to be something that directly and immediately affects results, 10% test penalty if you’re seen doing it
Or perhaps elimination? We can only dream.....
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Knew I wasn’t spelling that right , I think she is lovely and to me, how dressage should be . Edward Gal always rides his with their heads pulled in but gets ridiculously high marks because they are so flashy , but where is the harmony ?However Gareth and Briolinca came second, only beaten by Lottie, which is great for a horse that is non flashy, even though very correct and sympathetically ridden. (You know how much I love that combination though as you were sitting next to me!!
nikicb
Well-Known Member
I have loved her since he rode her in one of the demos at a BD convention a few years back, but then as all my friends know, I think bay mares are the best!
I also just love watching both Gareth and Carl ride - lovely forward giving hands, and everything is just so soft.