Disgusted at behaviour of the hunt
- Thread starter Yougetwhatyoudeserve
- Start date
JoBird
Well-Known Member
I have been hunting on horseaback and follow and loads of my friends do the same. I have to say regretably that the OP and Santa Paws are both correct. I have witnessed hounds and horses trashing people's gardens without apology and definitely hunting foxes. It really isnt a secret people (including me) just turn a blind eye.
It is the rudeness/arogance that really does bother me and gives hunting a bad name. Hopefully someone influential will hammer it into the hunts that they really need to "behave" and be well manered or even the followers will feel embarassed to be part of it. I realise not all hunts are at fault but some really need a good talking to!
It is the rudeness/arogance that really does bother me and gives hunting a bad name. Hopefully someone influential will hammer it into the hunts that they really need to "behave" and be well manered or even the followers will feel embarassed to be part of it. I realise not all hunts are at fault but some really need a good talking to!
A1JUMPJOCKEY
Active Member
The biggest problem is, is that a lot of people following hounds dont have the first idea of ettiquette and protocol on a days Hunting, We had an occasion last season where some of the field who were toiling behind (why do people do this) trotted through a large livery yard to catch up with the Field, upsetting a lot of horses in the process. The horses who were up behind our Lady master walked through the yard as your supposed to do. Sincere appoliges were made to the owner and a severe Bollo**ng to the people behind. Its little things like not waiting for the horse behind you to cross a foot bridge before galloping off!!!(my biggest pet hate)
Ive not read all of the 200+ comments regarding this issue as there is not enough time in the day.(plus im watching great racing from Newbury). On the "ODD" occasion where Hounds, Hunt Staff or the field have passed through land or property where permisson was not sort after, i can assure you that 99% of Packs up and down GB would not be anything but appoligetic or curtious to farmers or Landowners. In most cases hounds have gone across that property in the past and are probably normally made welcome.
If hounds are in your local area and you have been told by your pack, then its your responsibility for your horses in the your fields. If you have a livery yard, small stable or a few of your own, please make your self known to your local Secretary and they will put you on the e-mail list or the list for the Master of the day to ring prior to a days hunting.
Im not a Master or Professional Hunt staff just a very keen Am-Whip, im passionate about Hunting and Hounds and can only appoligise for some poor manners from others. I can assure we at the Southdown and Eridge have a very good Relationship with all our farmers and Landowners and are always pollite to all passing cars etc. As proved with over 100 on horseback and 2000on there feet on Boxing Day in Lewes.
PS: Before the comments come in, im not a wealthy older person. Im 28 and work hard and follow hounds when racing Commitments allow.
Ive not read all of the 200+ comments regarding this issue as there is not enough time in the day.(plus im watching great racing from Newbury). On the "ODD" occasion where Hounds, Hunt Staff or the field have passed through land or property where permisson was not sort after, i can assure you that 99% of Packs up and down GB would not be anything but appoligetic or curtious to farmers or Landowners. In most cases hounds have gone across that property in the past and are probably normally made welcome.
If hounds are in your local area and you have been told by your pack, then its your responsibility for your horses in the your fields. If you have a livery yard, small stable or a few of your own, please make your self known to your local Secretary and they will put you on the e-mail list or the list for the Master of the day to ring prior to a days hunting.
Im not a Master or Professional Hunt staff just a very keen Am-Whip, im passionate about Hunting and Hounds and can only appoligise for some poor manners from others. I can assure we at the Southdown and Eridge have a very good Relationship with all our farmers and Landowners and are always pollite to all passing cars etc. As proved with over 100 on horseback and 2000on there feet on Boxing Day in Lewes.
PS: Before the comments come in, im not a wealthy older person. Im 28 and work hard and follow hounds when racing Commitments allow.
Godknows
Well-Known Member
I should start this by saying that though not a hunt follower myself I have always held the view that if people want to hunt thats up to them and I was quite happy to watch an Opening meet and give way to hunt riders if I met them on the road. However today has changed my attitude completely. We rent land in a certain hunt's country. We knew the meet was happening locally but we have always previously been told if they would be hunting near to us and we would bring our horses in from the field. We were not told anything today so left our horses out. However suddenly the hunt appeared, hounds streamed into our field, closely followed by the mounted pack sending our horses into a panic, careering about in the mud.
QUOTE]
A1JJ As you will see from the quote above by OP origninal first post. They did not inform them when they normally do but it has all been resolved as they took her/him a bottle of Vodka to put in horses feed to keep them calm and apologised
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
If hounds are in your local area and you have been told by your pack, then its your responsibility for your horses in the your fields. If you have a livery yard, small stable or a few of your own, please make your self known to your local Secretary and they will put you on the e-mail list or the list for the Master of the day to ring prior to a days hunting.
QUOTE]
Now you see its this kind of comment which would wind up us normal horse owners. It seems a little arrogant
If I owned my own land and my horses were out on it, I would assume that it is the responsibility of the hunt to 1) ask my permision to hunt over it 2) tell me exactly when they intended to do so.
From your post it sounds as though they have a right to cross anyones land, do they? Is this right restricted to hunts or can any of us go galloping through other peoples property, as long as we inform them first. Assuming they need permission, it would not seem to be in their interests to annoy the land owner, or that permission will soon be revoked.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
If hounds are in your local area and you have been told by your pack, then its your responsibility for your horses in the your fields. If you have a livery yard, small stable or a few of your own, please make your self known to your local Secretary and they will put you on the e-mail list or the list for the Master of the day to ring prior to a days hunting.
QUOTE]
Now you see its this kind of comment which would wind up us normal horse owners. It seems a little arrogant
If I owned my own land and my horses were out on it, I would assume that it is the responsibility of the hunt to 1) ask my permision to hunt over it 2) tell me exactly when they intended to do so. If you owned your own land, and if you were in hunting country, and if this was in the days when we hunted foxes, instead of a bloke in trainers, then it would most probably be a given, that hounds would cross your property at some time during the season, and all that I know of are quite happy with that.
From your post it sounds as though they have a right to cross anyones land, do they? Is this right restricted to hunts or can any of us go galloping through other peoples property, as long as we inform them first. Assuming they need permission, it would not seem to be in their interests to annoy the land owner, or that permission will soon be revoked. It isn't so much a RIGHT, more a freedom which was, and generally still is accepted, and given. Generally, the mounted field will have a Field Master who will be very well aware of ethical and correct behaviour, and to revert right back to the very start of this, at times ludicrous, occasionally funny, and often silly thread, there was an unthinkable breakdown in the joined up thinking of some one.
What I've tried to say to you is that most land owners, will welcome hounds, and those riders who know how to conduct themselves in a courteous fashion. Does that help?
Alec.
A1JUMPJOCKEY
Active Member
Its not our god given right to gallop where ever we wont to. We seek permission way in advance, I dont know of a pack of hounds who would go out of there way to gallop through a field of horses as you seem to think we do. Most of the instances of horses being upset in fields is when horses and hounds pass along lanes and bridle ways ( which like yourselves we do have a right to pass along) the reason i said get in touch with your local secretary is that you can be pre warned of hounds being in your area, Surely thats not being Arrogant thats just common sense.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid you have done it again
Why the hell should landowners have to contact the hunt secretary. If an event is being organised its surely the responsibility of the organisors to make sure they know everyone who will be affected and contact them, especially if its possible this event might cross private land.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Yep - and I've foxhunted for many years - and many times have seen hounds called off a live scent - either a fox that was heading where the hunt didn't want to go, or deer, or hare. I've also seen draghounds decline to be called off live scent - and foxhounds ditto!
Both sorts of hounds SHOULD be able to be called off a live scent - and usually can be - but ***** happens. If the huntsman - or whippers-in - aren't close enough and hounds get up a head of steam there CAN be loss of control. What I was saying was rubbish was the suggestion that hunts (of ANY flavour) WANTED their hounds to riot!
A1JUMPJOCKEY
Active Member
I ask you to re-read my post please. Not on any occasion did i say we think we can go anywhere we like. If you have been pre warned and your horses get upsett you can hardly blame the passing hunt. If you have not been warned there in your area not just crossing near by land then yes im sure most packs would be sorry your horses were lit up.
What i did type though was that if you do have horses in fields and you no that your local pack sometimes comes near by is it not the sensible thing to ask to be warned in the future as im sure prevention is better than cure. Hunt secretarys and Masters are employed to do this.
Its not the Hunts Responsibility to warn you of them going past on lanes and bridleways but if they want to pass through your land then the will ask. If you dont want them to pass across then they will not, This is why if you make yourself known, you will be very much avoided in the future. Again this in not ARROGANT just common sense.
Also some country is scattered around with some land quite a hack on roads etc to get to the next farm, as not all Neighbouring Landowners want you to cross through.
What i did type though was that if you do have horses in fields and you no that your local pack sometimes comes near by is it not the sensible thing to ask to be warned in the future as im sure prevention is better than cure. Hunt secretarys and Masters are employed to do this.
Its not the Hunts Responsibility to warn you of them going past on lanes and bridleways but if they want to pass through your land then the will ask. If you dont want them to pass across then they will not, This is why if you make yourself known, you will be very much avoided in the future. Again this in not ARROGANT just common sense.
Also some country is scattered around with some land quite a hack on roads etc to get to the next farm, as not all Neighbouring Landowners want you to cross through.
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rockysmum
Well-Known Member
In which case it would not seem unreasonable that they got the contact details of ALL land owners in the areas they hunt in and put out a schedule.
Our local shoots do it, and they dont come onto the land, just warn people in case they are riding past them which is very sensible and responsible.
My only real point in this is to say that I think it should be the responsibility of the hunt to find out who might be affected, rather than people having to chase them up.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
rockysmum, read the words of A1JJ again. When first moving into an area where land is likely to have hounds running over it, find your local Secretary, make yourself known, leave a number or e/mail address, and you will be advised as to when hounds may be near you. That is called introducing yourself, or taking the fight to the enemy, but however you view it, take the necessary steps, and you will be certain that at least you made the effort!
Alec.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
rockysmum, read the words of A1JJ again. When first moving into an area where land is likely to have hounds running over it, find your local Secretary, make yourself known, leave a number or e/mail address, and you will be advised as to when hounds may be near you. That is called introducing yourself, or taking the fight to the enemy, but however you view it, take the necessary steps, and you will be certain that at least you made the effort!
Alec.
Just because I'm bored and there is nothing on the TV at the moment Once again I can see why there are problems. You make the assumption that anyone new to the area would even know where the local hunts went, or even that they existed at all. Unfortunately I suspect that this is not always the case. People who were not brought up in hunting areas might commit the dreadful sin of never thinking to ask. They buy their house and land never suspecting they might be invaded by rioting hounds
(I love that term) and 50+ horses and riders.Perhaps the hunt should introduce themselves, or take the fight to the enemy, or take the necessary steps, and then they could be certain that at least they made the effort
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
If by "riot" you mean follow a live quarry then that is not rubbish. There are hunts who want their hounds to follow live quarry.
I am so sorry that you opened this discussion again when I thought it was put to bed, but I will not accept that there are no hunts who want to hunt live quarry when I have been told by the hunt secretary themself that they do.
JG, if you want the evidence of hunts which are openly hunting live quarry please PM me and I will let you have it.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
rockysmum, read the words of A1JJ again. When first moving into an area where land is likely to have hounds running over it, find your local Secretary, make yourself known, leave a number or e/mail address, and you will be advised as to when hounds may be near you. That is called introducing yourself, or taking the fight to the enemy, but however you view it, take the necessary steps, and you will be certain that at least you made the effort!
Alec.
Excuse me Alec? Why the **** should I have to do that? Car rallies warn me when they are in my area. Bike races warn me when they are in my area. Long distance runners warn me when they are in my area. Hell, I even get warned when snow intends to fall on me.
Why should I have to contact the hunt for them to tell me when they are in my area? Do you realise how incredibly arrogant that sounds????
It is the responsibility of the hunt to warn people that they are there, not of innocent landowners to seek it out. And how do we seek it out when "ex" fox packs are still hiding their meets? And why do they need to hide their meet card if they are hunting lawfully?? If a hunt is following a trail legally then they will know which properties they will be passing and should warn people who live near the lines or at the very least openly publicise their meets.
You seem to be labouring under the illusion that you are still offering the countryside a service which they cannot get from anywhere else and that the people who live in it should make all sorts of allowances for you.
This is no longer the case. Hunting is an entertainment, nothing more. Shooting is at least as effective and at least as humane. Start acting like the countryside is doing you a service instead of the other way around and you may find that the image of fox hunting improves.
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Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Dear oh dear, so much to dissect, and so little time, because for certain this will continue for centuries!
Alec.
Excuse me Alec? Why the **** should I have to do that? You don't HAVE to do it at all, you can continue as you are, having moved to your newly acquired land and house, and show no deference or respect to a tradition of good manners and courtesy which is generally reciprocal, and is certainly time honoured. That would be your choice.Car rallies warn me when they are in my area. I wonder how you managed that one, perhaps you could drop the odd hint in my direction, because the local off road 4 wheel drive **** wits, make our own green lanes, impassable in winter, by cutting them to shreds.Bike races warn me when they are in my area. Long distance runners warn me when they are in my area. Hell, I even get warned when snow intends to fall on me. So you'd expect local meets to be advertised along with the weather reports, would you? I wish you luck with that one.
Why should I have to contact the hunt for them to tell me when they are in my area? Do you realise how incredibly arrogant that sounds???? Not a case of common sense then? No, I thought not. Let me spell it out to you as simply as I am able, in an effort to help you understand. If you were to contact your local Pack secretary, the Kennels will give you the number, and when you speak to the secretary, request that your name be put on and e/mailable contact list, so that you can be advised when hounds are likely to be in the area. Does that make sense to you?
It is the responsibility of the hunt to warn people that they are there, not of innocent landowners to seek it out. Finally we're in agreement, BUT, first if you were to introduce yourself, they can hardly be expected to track down every single Boycee from Peckham, who decide upon changing the rural scene, to suit himself. And how do we seek it out when "ex" fox packs are still hiding their meets? And why do they need to hide their meet card if they are hunting lawfully?? If a hunt is following a trail legally then they will know which properties they will be passing and should warn people who live near the lines or at the very least openly publicise their meets. A teensy problem with that. Legal hunting is a pleasurable pastime for most. You may not have heard of them but there are groups, known as Sabs, Antis, or ****wits, depending upon how you feel, and these people will conduct illegal activities, some, indeed many putting the lives of others at risk, and you'll never guess what, the damage which they do to our rural environment is far greater that those who hunt.
You seem to be labouring under the illusion that you are still offering the countryside a service which they cannot get from anywhere else and that the people who live in it should make all sorts of allowances for you. No, I'm "attempting" to be of service to my rural environs, and am generally prevented from doing so, by a collection of clowns, made up in part by Defra, Government, and those with no understanding of how rural life has been traditionally lived since time immemorial, and would change everything to suit their own blinkered worlds.
This is no longer the case. Hunting is an entertainment, nothing more. Shooting is at least as effective and at least as humane. I have killed many many hundreds of foxes, with firearms and by other means, but mostly, with firearms. I can assure you that the efficacy and the humanity, attached to shooting, will not stand up to genuine inspection, despite what you may have read, or been told.Start acting like the countryside is doing you a service instead of the other way around and you may find that the image of fox hunting improves. I'm at the service of my rural environment, and I would in closing, ask you one question; As the countryside has developed over many centuries, into the world which we now have, and as those who, with the greatest respect, may have a more realistic handle on things, than you do, how do you feel that your new found thinking will improve matters?
Alec.
Fiagai
Well-Known Member
Alec
It would appear that we have a new type of hunting person characterised by detesting anything actually to do with hunting including hounds behaving as hounds are sometimes want to do. I think this new breed also like vodka
It would appear that we have a new type of hunting person characterised by detesting anything actually to do with hunting including hounds behaving as hounds are sometimes want to do. I think this new breed also like vodka
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
My house is not newly acquired, why on earth do you make that assumption?
Why is it an issue to ask for local meets to be accessible on a website that I can look up as I do for drag meets?
Sorry, I do not accept that a leisure club, a hunt, should expect me to show it respect and deference.
If you are legally hunting a trail there is no problem whatsoever with knowing which properties you will pass by. "Boycee from Peckham" (how patronising!) in this area is improving property after property which were a total mess before they took them on, rebuilding walls, improving land, planting new woods and looking after their stock better than many established farmers. The world has changed. You need to change with it.
The sabs will stop sabbing you if you stop hunting fox. They only sabbed bloodhounds once, and they won't make that mistake again for a long time. They don't sab drags. They are continuing to sab hunts because you are continuing to allow your hounds to chase fox. If you stop, so will they. While hunts continue to excuse your hounds "accidentally" finding a fox scent and "running riot" chasing it without being (or being able to be) called off, then hunts will continue to be sabbed.
Rural life since time immemorial also believed in dancing bears, dog fighting, cock fighting, children working long hours of hard manual work, pigs kept in disgusting confinement that drove them mad, cows chained by the neck into stalls for 6 months of the year etc etc. Society moves on. You may not like it, but the majority of people in this country do not agree with obtaining enjoyment from chasing a wild animal for miles across country to kill it.
I can assure you that foxes in my area are controlled perfectly well and humanely by marksmen with guns. I do not believe that it is more humane to hunt them with a pack of hounds and I do not believe that you can point me to any independant study that says it is.
Why do you, in your incredible arrogance, assume that my current thinking is "newfound" or that I do not have a realistic handle on things simply because I do not agree with you?
Alec were you a huntsman or a whip? Because unless you were (or are if you still hunt fox) then you are kidding yourself if you think that you are doing any service to the countryside. The huntsman is, the whips are, the hounds are but the followers are there for the fun. OK their subs pay for the hounds and Huntsman but "service to the countryside"? - a man with a gun is as good and cheaper.
Your attitude is entirely typical of a voiciferous minority (I hope) of fox hunters who answer everyone who disagrees with them with the comment "you don't understand what you are talking about".
I DO understand fox hunting, completely, I have done it. I DO understand that you have been robbed of something that you are passionate about. I feel very sorry for you. But it is my personal opinion that fox hunting is not justifiable in this day and age.
Now, please can we agree to differ instead of any more tedious and frankly bl88dy arrogant comments about how long I have been a country dweller and my supposed lack of knowledge?
Happy New Year!
Why is it an issue to ask for local meets to be accessible on a website that I can look up as I do for drag meets?
Sorry, I do not accept that a leisure club, a hunt, should expect me to show it respect and deference.
If you are legally hunting a trail there is no problem whatsoever with knowing which properties you will pass by. "Boycee from Peckham" (how patronising!) in this area is improving property after property which were a total mess before they took them on, rebuilding walls, improving land, planting new woods and looking after their stock better than many established farmers. The world has changed. You need to change with it.
The sabs will stop sabbing you if you stop hunting fox. They only sabbed bloodhounds once, and they won't make that mistake again for a long time. They don't sab drags. They are continuing to sab hunts because you are continuing to allow your hounds to chase fox. If you stop, so will they. While hunts continue to excuse your hounds "accidentally" finding a fox scent and "running riot" chasing it without being (or being able to be) called off, then hunts will continue to be sabbed.
Rural life since time immemorial also believed in dancing bears, dog fighting, cock fighting, children working long hours of hard manual work, pigs kept in disgusting confinement that drove them mad, cows chained by the neck into stalls for 6 months of the year etc etc. Society moves on. You may not like it, but the majority of people in this country do not agree with obtaining enjoyment from chasing a wild animal for miles across country to kill it.
I can assure you that foxes in my area are controlled perfectly well and humanely by marksmen with guns. I do not believe that it is more humane to hunt them with a pack of hounds and I do not believe that you can point me to any independant study that says it is.
Why do you, in your incredible arrogance, assume that my current thinking is "newfound" or that I do not have a realistic handle on things simply because I do not agree with you?
Alec were you a huntsman or a whip? Because unless you were (or are if you still hunt fox) then you are kidding yourself if you think that you are doing any service to the countryside. The huntsman is, the whips are, the hounds are but the followers are there for the fun. OK their subs pay for the hounds and Huntsman but "service to the countryside"? - a man with a gun is as good and cheaper.
Your attitude is entirely typical of a voiciferous minority (I hope) of fox hunters who answer everyone who disagrees with them with the comment "you don't understand what you are talking about".
I DO understand fox hunting, completely, I have done it. I DO understand that you have been robbed of something that you are passionate about. I feel very sorry for you. But it is my personal opinion that fox hunting is not justifiable in this day and age.
Now, please can we agree to differ instead of any more tedious and frankly bl88dy arrogant comments about how long I have been a country dweller and my supposed lack of knowledge?
Happy New Year!
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cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Alec
It would appear that we have a new type of hunting person characterised by detesting anything actually to do with hunting including hounds behaving as hounds are sometimes want to do. I think this new breed also like vodka
I think that you are quite correct Fiagai. The drink of choice of many young people in this country is currently vodka and vodka mixes, and most young people in this country are, I suspect, completely against culling foxes by chasing them across county with hounds.
I see you can't sleep either, I hope you don't have the virus that I have that seems to include a total inability to sleep
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
I think that you are quite correct Fiagai. The drink of choice of many young people in this country is currently vodka and vodka mixes, and most young people in this country are, I suspect, completely against culling foxes by chasing them across county with hounds.
I see you can't sleep either, I hope you don't have the virus that I have that seems to include a total inability to sleep
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ar-revellers-Toxic-liquid-make-ill-blind.html
Toxic fake vodka that can 'make them ill or blind'
By Sean Poulter Daily Mail
Last updated at 3:20 PM on 31st December 2011
New Year drinkers have been warned about fake vodka containing toxins, including chemicals used to make anti-freeze, that could make them go blind.
High levels of methanol and industrial solvents have been found in counterfeit vodka seized by trading standards officers across the country in recent weeks.
Criminal gangs have set up stills and are making their own vodka-like drinks, which are then dressed up to look like genuine brands such as Glens, Smirnoff, Drop, Arctic Ice, Red Admiral and Spar Imperial.
Party goers are being warned to avoid buying cheap booze which could cause kidney damage
These are then sold on at a knock-down price through small off-licences and corner shops across the country.
Tests on counterfeit bottles recently seized around the UK have revealed alarming levels of methanol a key ingredient used to make anti-freeze with the potential to blind somebody.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oxic-liquid-make-ill-blind.html#ixzz1iBnjN9EZ
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Santa Paws
Santa Paws - you keep harping on about arrogance, but your post is incredibly arrogant and full of generalisations.
I'm sure that SOME newcomers to the countryside do maintain their properties better than SOME established farmers, but you imply that all newcomers are better than all established farmers - incredibly arrogant !
It would behove any newcomers to any community to find out about their local area and any activities that may go on in the area, therefore suggesting that they contact the local hunt to be put on a mailing list isn't arrogant just a suggestion to make everyones life easier. If horses are kept on land adjacent to a dwelling then I am sure that the hunt would pop a card through their door, but when they are in a field in the middle of nowhere it does become more problematic to find out who the owner is and who to notify.
Sabs do follow hunts that are hunting within the law, despite what you may say. They hope to be able to both disrupt the day and potentially find evidence to prove the hunt has broken the law. Therefore the hunts that have suffered from sabs following in the pre-ban do tend to be reluctant to openly publicise their meet cards.
Any individual going about their business in a law-abiding way would rightly get rather narked to be followed and filmed by self styled monitors hoping to catch them out breaking the law. You certainly would not openly tell them where you are going to be to enable them to do this more easily.
You say shooting is a better option. If the shooter is a marks man then possibly it may no worse. However it does not take into account the other aspects to hunting with hounds, ie dispersal of numbers, the natural selection (fitter stronger foxes normally get away) etc. In normal circumstances with average marksman it is worse, the foxes are injured left to die slow painful deaths.
Hunts provide an invaluable service to farmers which is why so many of them are happy to open up their land to allow the hunts across. The only way the hunts can survive is through its subscribers and members therefore followers are important to the hunt. So although many followers may not directly help out the farmers indirectly they do.
The majority of hunt followers are polite and understand and accept that not everyone shares their opinion, generally they do not feel the need to ram it down peoples throat. However generalisations around hunting abound; that we are toffs, arrogant and look down on others continue to be thrown around by many people who either have minimal knowledge or are anti hunting and wish to continue to perpetuate this myth.
So when people come onto a pro hunting web site to throw mud, or to latch onto threads and turn them into mud slinging against hunting you can't really be surprised when it gets slung back ! I am not having a go at the OP of this thread as they appear to have had a legitimate complaint that has been addressed to their satisfaction.
And before you say this website is for all, I would agree that it is, but its provided by the Horse and Hound magazine which is pro hunting and its readership is traditionally also pro hunting.
Santa Paws - you keep harping on about arrogance, but your post is incredibly arrogant and full of generalisations.
I'm sure that SOME newcomers to the countryside do maintain their properties better than SOME established farmers, but you imply that all newcomers are better than all established farmers - incredibly arrogant !
It would behove any newcomers to any community to find out about their local area and any activities that may go on in the area, therefore suggesting that they contact the local hunt to be put on a mailing list isn't arrogant just a suggestion to make everyones life easier. If horses are kept on land adjacent to a dwelling then I am sure that the hunt would pop a card through their door, but when they are in a field in the middle of nowhere it does become more problematic to find out who the owner is and who to notify.
Sabs do follow hunts that are hunting within the law, despite what you may say. They hope to be able to both disrupt the day and potentially find evidence to prove the hunt has broken the law. Therefore the hunts that have suffered from sabs following in the pre-ban do tend to be reluctant to openly publicise their meet cards.
Any individual going about their business in a law-abiding way would rightly get rather narked to be followed and filmed by self styled monitors hoping to catch them out breaking the law. You certainly would not openly tell them where you are going to be to enable them to do this more easily.
You say shooting is a better option. If the shooter is a marks man then possibly it may no worse. However it does not take into account the other aspects to hunting with hounds, ie dispersal of numbers, the natural selection (fitter stronger foxes normally get away) etc. In normal circumstances with average marksman it is worse, the foxes are injured left to die slow painful deaths.
Hunts provide an invaluable service to farmers which is why so many of them are happy to open up their land to allow the hunts across. The only way the hunts can survive is through its subscribers and members therefore followers are important to the hunt. So although many followers may not directly help out the farmers indirectly they do.
The majority of hunt followers are polite and understand and accept that not everyone shares their opinion, generally they do not feel the need to ram it down peoples throat. However generalisations around hunting abound; that we are toffs, arrogant and look down on others continue to be thrown around by many people who either have minimal knowledge or are anti hunting and wish to continue to perpetuate this myth.
So when people come onto a pro hunting web site to throw mud, or to latch onto threads and turn them into mud slinging against hunting you can't really be surprised when it gets slung back ! I am not having a go at the OP of this thread as they appear to have had a legitimate complaint that has been addressed to their satisfaction.
And before you say this website is for all, I would agree that it is, but its provided by the Horse and Hound magazine which is pro hunting and its readership is traditionally also pro hunting.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
Before you all start on me I'm not for or anti hunting, I couldn't care less, but this thread has kept me amused for hours.
Alec I do think your reply to Santa Paws was incredible arrogant, I just hope your hunt doesn't need to cross any land owned by someone from Peckham
I'm not for or anti hunting, I couldn't care less, but this thread has kept me amused for hours.Alec I do think your reply to Santa Paws was incredible arrogant, I just hope your hunt doesn't need to cross any land owned by someone from Peckham
Hunts provide an invaluable service to farmers which is why so many of them are happy to open up their land to allow the hunts across. The only way the hunts can survive is through its subscribers and members therefore followers are important to the hunt. So although many followers may not directly help out the farmers indirectly they do.
QUOTE]
This does puzzle me though, exactly what service does the hunt provide to farmers, now they are not allowed to hunt anymore. Ploughing the fields perhaps
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Most hunts provide a fallen stock service to farmers, this reduces the overhead costs of disposing of deadstock that cannot go into the human food chain.
A1JUMPJOCKEY
Active Member
Also whilst we were putting in a few new sets of timber rails to jump on a farmers land last month, we also repaired lots of fencing and re hung a few gates for him whilst out there, Saving him time and money. These little things also with the fallen stock round are a back scratching way of helping each other out. The countryside has always run like this and long may it continue.
Im sure most other pack's also do this but we hold a Farmers Dinner during the season as a thankyou to all landowners and farmers.
Im sure most other pack's also do this but we hold a Farmers Dinner during the season as a thankyou to all landowners and farmers.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
What about those hunts who no longer feed flesh? Do they still remove deads even though they feed ghastly pellets?
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
Was just about to post about fallen stock, a very valuable service indeed. As an aside, surely if someone is aware of others breaking the law, particularly on a regular basis, and chooses not to inform the police of this, they too are commiting an offence? If you are told of the time and place that an offence is planned to be committed, then there is even more onus on you to inform the police.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Yep - Farmers' supper is always well attended, and plenty take up free tickets to the Point-to-point (the odd one then flogs them off to their friends
)And it's surprising how many farmers turn up to local meets - even if they're not regular followers. It's an excuse to 'get away' for a few hours, catch up on the local gossip etc. Farming can be a very lonely occupation, as many now sell stock off farm and don't go to market!
And many hunts still operate lambing call outs - two hounds and a shotgun (within the law!!) - to dispose of a particular fox who has developed a taste for new-born lambs.
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
Hear hear.
Unfortunately, the countryside is filling up with city slickers and townies who have no idea about such things. They are the arrogant ones; moving into decent communities and failing to integrate, and treating the 'natives' like a bunch of blood-lusting simpletons.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
Obviously spent far too much time watching "The Hills Have Eyes"