Disgusted at behaviour of the hunt

[Alec Swan]

Yes it is very sad HB! It is very sad that it has become so fashionable to make all-encompassing statements about everyone that hunts! In this day of PC gone mad it has somehow become acceptable to discriminate and abuse those who chose to continue to hunt. Unsupported allegations are made and everyone is treated as if they are criminals just because they chose an activity that has been labelled as elitism. The BCC on Boxing Day effectively said that anyone continuing to hunt fell under suspicion simply because they went out with horses and hounds!

I have used the example before that in my experience that 99% of drivers are responsible and considerate and in my experience the remaining 1% is the exception. I do not therefore damn all drivers of motor vehicles.

I expect others to extend the same courtesy to other activities and NOT jump on the bandwagon that is already overloaded with shouting ignorant oafs

We are now approaching the end of the year, and if not for the forum in its entirety, certainly for this section, THAT is the post of the year.

Absolutely

You do realise that anyone joining this thread at the end will now think the OP was complaining about the quality of the gift and that HHO have managed 18 pages of rants about it

A pertinent observation. Funny too!

Alec.

 

[Fiagai]

Master: hmmm lovely bottle of Scotch or a bottle of vodka?

Pauses....

Bugger that! Vodka it is....

 

[JanetGeorge]

J_M old bean,

fond of you as I am, and whilst considering that I've read some unmitigated rubbish on this forum; on this occasion, you sir, have excelled yourself!!

The allegations have been substantiated, the Master concerned has offered an unqualified apology, the OP has graciously accepted that apology, but YOU seem determined to continue with your tirade.

Don't go to the trouble of explaining yourself, I don't have the patience to listen.

Ditto - you saved me the trouble, Alec - well said!

The OP was VERY entitled to be pi**ed off - fortunately the Master is one of the sensible ones and has made amends!

Some of the hunt supporters on this forum would do well to think on the crappy impression they give others about hunting people! I spent 7 years of my life as a full-time spokesperson for hunting (before the ban) and an awful lot of my time was spent trying to sort out these 'issues'. If more hunting people ha really THOUGHT about their behaviour - and behaved better - hunting might NOT have been banned!!

IF the ban is ever to be repealed, we could do with not making more enemies in the meantime! A little consideration and courtesy costs nothing!

 

[Mrs B]

Ditto - you saved me the trouble, Alec - well said!

The OP was VERY entitled to be pi**ed off - fortunately the Master is one of the sensible ones and has made amends!

Some of the hunt supporters on this forum would do well to think on the crappy impression they give others about hunting people! I spent 7 years of my life as a full-time spokesperson for hunting (before the ban) and an awful lot of my time was spent trying to sort out these 'issues'. If more hunting people ha really THOUGHT about their behaviour - and behaved better - hunting might NOT have been banned!!

IF the ban is ever to be repealed, we could do with not making more enemies in the meantime! A little consideration and courtesy costs nothing!

Having read everything through, I started to type, and then decided I should just say: ^^^^^^^^^^ This.

 

[Rosie Round The Hills]

I'm with MrsB, Alec and JG on all of this.

And to the original poster, a heartfelt thank you for being so civil about the variety of replies on here, and for your acceptance of the apology as offered.

 

[cptrayes]

Ditto - you saved me the trouble, Alec - well said!

The OP was VERY entitled to be pi**ed off - fortunately the Master is one of the sensible ones and has made amends!

Some of the hunt supporters on this forum would do well to think on the crappy impression they give others about hunting people! I spent 7 years of my life as a full-time spokesperson for hunting (before the ban) and an awful lot of my time was spent trying to sort out these 'issues'. If more hunting people ha really THOUGHT about their behaviour - and behaved better - hunting might NOT have been banned!!

IF the ban is ever to be repealed, we could do with not making more enemies in the meantime! A little consideration and courtesy costs nothing!

Well said Janet George!

 

[VoR]

The OP was VERY entitled to be pi**ed off - fortunately the Master is one of the sensible ones and has made amends!

And the OP appears to have been satisfied with the outcome which is THE most important thing

If more hunting people ha really THOUGHT about their behaviour - and behaved better - hunting might NOT have been banned!!

Bit confused, not been hunting that long, but I didn't think the hunting act was made law due to the behaviour of those that hunted, rather a perception of cruelty (and maybe a little bit of a perceived class issue!! ), though I may be wrong??

IF the ban is ever to be repealed, we could do with not making more enemies in the meantime! A little consideration and courtesy costs nothing!

This too is true,tbh the vast majority that I hunt with do show consideration and courtesy at all times and the youngsters that hunt a by far some of the most polite I have met, a credit to their parents and in the way they conduct themselves in the field, the hunt.

Happy New Year all!

 

[cptrayes]

Unfortunately hounds arnt remote controlled.....

Why are drag hounds more controllable? Same hounds, different training?

We've been through this one already on this thread, but never in 6 seasons and some odd days, hunting with 3 different drag packs, have I ever seen a Hunstman and his whips fail to call hounds off a live fox scent, though I have often seen the hounds find one. Their excitement at finding "the real thing" is sometimes unmistakable

What a shame someone had to open this up again after JanetGeorge's lovely balanced post. What a shame I felt obliged to reply, more fool me

Personally I think we should leave this thread now with this as the last word:

Originally Posted by JanetGeorge


The OP was VERY entitled to be pi**ed off - fortunately the Master is one of the sensible ones and has made amends!

Some of the hunt supporters on this forum would do well to think on the crappy impression they give others about hunting people! I spent 7 years of my life as a full-time spokesperson for hunting (before the ban) and an awful lot of my time was spent trying to sort out these 'issues'. If more hunting people ha really THOUGHT about their behaviour - and behaved better - hunting might NOT have been banned!!

IF the ban is ever to be repealed, we could do with not making more enemies in the meantime! A little consideration and courtesy costs nothing!

 

[flower08]

No,masters and vodka just doesnt add up,especially as a "sorry"

i have to say having worked for masters that i agree with you here

 

[flower08]

Absolutely

You do realise that anyone joining this thread at the end will now think the OP was complaining about the quality of the gift and that HHO have managed 18 pages of rants about it

and this did make me laugh!

 

[Fiagai]

Why are drag hounds more controllable? Same hounds, different training?

We've been through this one already on this thread, but never in 6 seasons and some odd days, hunting with 3 different drag packs, have I ever seen a Hunstman and his whips fail to call hounds off a live fox scent, though I have often seen the hounds find one. Their excitement at finding "the real thing" is sometimes unmistakable ...

Well S_P - truely I do not know why your drag hounds are more controllable. but perhaps there are some posters here with many years of experience with hounds who might be able to provide an answer?

I congratulate you on your apparently perfect hounds but what I do know is that hunting terminology allows for hounds to be "at fault" and "to riot" and this type of behaviour has been known to happen at least from time to time. Neither are hounds machines. Yes they can be "trained" as you say, but that does not make then infallible. Training unfortunately does not allow for unexpected changes to environmental conditions such as wind and temperature that may put hounds off.

Nothing in this world is perfect, sometimes mistakes are made and rash judgements taken but that does not mean that where this happens lynching should be suggested as the only means of correction. If at first there is doubt or unknown circumstances then the benefit of same should be given. Fortunately in this case the OP is happy with the explanation and resolution. I wish them well, I hope you do to...

 

[Alec Swan]

Fiagai,

from my limited experience, hounds will listen when they've nothing better to do, but when their heads are down, not a hope in hell!! But then would we have them any other way?

Alec.

 

[Fiagai]

Fiagai,

from my limited experience, hounds will listen when they've nothing better to do, but when their heads are down, not a hope in hell!! But then would we have them any other way?

Alec.

Alec

A hound is a hound, is a hound unless its a couple then its two!

But in answer I like hounds they way nature intended...

 

[rockysmum]

Just out of interest and because I have nothing else to do at the moment.

Having read "at fault" and "riot" I just wondered how much the insurance premiums are for a hunt.

And what about elfandsafety do you have to risk assess each venue, individual hounds etc etc. I have to ensure every single thing is risk assessed and safe systems of work have been done in my job.

My mind was just idly wandering to serious road accidents, damage to people, animals or property caused by out of control hounds and such like. I dont know how often it happens but it sounds as though it should be very expensive to insure against.

 

[Fiagai]

Just out of interest and because I have nothing else to do at the moment.

Having read "at fault" and "riot" I just wondered how much the insurance premiums are for a hunt.

And what about elfandsafety do you have to risk assess each venue, individual hounds etc etc. I have to ensure every single thing is risk assessed and safe systems of work have been done in my job.

My mind was just idly wandering to serious road accidents, damage to people, animals or property caused by out of control hounds and such like. I dont know how often it happens but it sounds as though it should be very expensive to insure against.

Rm - all hunts have insurance...thankfully such incidents are rare. "At fault" simply means that hounds are at fault when they have lost the line of their quarry or trail. "Riot" means anything that hounds might follow a scent other than they should do. It does not mean out of control btw

These terms describe how hounds behave it doesnt really mean that hounds start burning cars in London or get drunk in the local nightclub and are held liable for being drunk and disorderly on a friday night

 

[cptrayes]

Fiagai,

from my limited experience, hounds will listen when they've nothing better to do, but when their heads are down, not a hope in hell!! But then would we have them any other way?

Alec.

Well there you have it Alec, don't you? It spoils the day for a drag hunt if the hounds follow live quarry.

It makes the day for a fox hunt if the hounds follow live quarry.

This is a training issue, nothing more nothing less. Fox packs are not trained sufficiently to guarantee that they can be called off a live scent because you do not want them to be called off a live scent. Simples

 

[rockysmum]

These terms describe how hounds behave it doesnt really mean that hounds start burning cars in London or get drunk in the local nightclub and are held liable for being drunk and disorderly on a friday night

PMSL

 

[Fiagai]

PMSL

RM

Here is a picture of some "hounds" behaving badly or maybe they are "drag" hounds?...

 

[Godknows]

YGWYD isn't it incredible that some people are suggesting that this is your fault?

Of course if the hunt had been hunting legally then there is no way that they would have laid scent across your field without asking your permission. By definition, if the hounds were in your field they were either out of control or being allowed to hunt fox. There are three hunts nearish to me hunting fox, so I believe that you saw them hunting a fox. Either way, the field should not have followed into your loose horses.

The behaviour is outrageous. There are plenty of horse owners who do not agree with hunting fox, never mind that it's illegal. Why on earth should they have to get their horses in every day that a meet happens to be close enough to possibly come onto their land? Such arrogance is what makes non-hunting folk think we are a bunch of overprivileged toffs.

Haven't read all yet but have to totally agree with this^^^^^

So far I like the OP don't hunt but live and let live. The hunt in question have been down right rude and then they have the nerve to complain to the land owner?? Just sounds like one of them may be his kin?? If you pay the rent and it doesn't say you must take the horses in why should you. As I say I don't hunt and have no idea when peeps do and don't hunt??

Do all you that do hunt know when there's a dressage event? No didn't think so. You do your hunting no good attacking someone who just trying to point out the bad behavior of some.

 

[rockysmum]

RM

Here is a picture of some "hounds" behaving badly or maybe they are "drag" hounds?...

[/IMG]

You wouldn't get away with posting that anywhere except the hunting section All those cigs and alcohol shocking, call the RSPCA.

And tell all those out of control rioting hounds to watch out for this little guy

 

[Fiagai]

LOL

Aww Poor Fluffy Bunnies...

You wouldn't get away with posting that anywhere except the hunting section All those cigs and alcohol shocking, call the RSPCA.

And tell all those out of control rioting hounds to watch out for this little guy

 

[Godknows]

You wouldn't get away with posting that anywhere except the hunting section All those cigs and alcohol shocking, call the RSPCA.

And tell all those out of control rioting hounds to watch out for this little guy

They should be the riders not the bunnies

 

[Fiagai]

They should be the riders not the bunnies

Naa dont be silly not even foxes like Fluffy Bunnies...

 

[Godknows]

Naa dont be silly not even foxes like Fluffy Bunnies...

Glad it has been resolved.

 

[rockysmum]

LOL

Aww Poor Fluffy Bunnies...

Dont worry the fluffy bunnies got their revenge

 

[Godknows]

Dont worry the fluffy bunnies got their revenge

PMSL

 

[JanetGeorge]

This is a training issue, nothing more nothing less. Fox packs are not trained sufficiently to guarantee that they can be called off a live scent because you do not want them to be called off a live scent. Simples

Sorry - but that's rubbish! Even one very well-trained dog can be tempted - with 30+ that's a LOT of potential temptation, but 'incidents' are thankfully quite rare (it's too often stupid followers that cause incidents rather than hounds!)

Hunts go to an enormous amount of trouble to ensure hounds stay under control. Some packs in deer country actually keep a few pet deer in kennels to ensure they have hounds VERY steady to deer! Not sure if they still do it, but one pack local to me used to take a couple of deer on hound exercise - really made motorists' heads turn!

Hounds that can't be called off a live scent are a dangerous liability - and while one 'incident' may be tolerated, repeat incidents mean a huntsman will be looking for a new job (and struggling to find one!!) Incidents mean loss of farmer support, the risk of road accidents - and the risk of prosecution!

 

[SusannaF]

Odd how the people saying you can't generalise about all hunts are also saying emphatically that no master would hand out vodka

 

[Luci07]

I have read all the way through the posts and kept coming back to it. Some very interesting views have come up, I, as someone who DOES choose to support hunting applauded both the action of the hunt master who apologised AND the actions of the OP who recieved it gracefully and reported back.

But JG! Is as usual, the voice of reason. Unfortunately I really do agree with her that had our manners better in previous times, we might not have had the act passed. There were a lot of people who didn't care but bad manners led to a poor perception of hunting people.

Personally,and although it has been a while due to lack of a horse who could hunt, I went out with the Surrey Union and they placed a huge emphasis on good manners and following the rules. No hooning over the middles of fields etc! We were told where we could go by the master and no one deviated. When I have run into them while out hacking, I was welcomed and asked if I would like to join them! Maybe with the next horse I will be able to go out..

 

[cptrayes]

Sorry - but that's rubbish! Even one very well-trained dog can be tempted - with 30+ that's a LOT of potential temptation, but 'incidents' are thankfully quite rare (it's too often stupid followers that cause incidents rather than hounds!)

Hunts go to an enormous amount of trouble to ensure hounds stay under control. Some packs in deer country actually keep a few pet deer in kennels to ensure they have hounds VERY steady to deer! Not sure if they still do it, but one pack local to me used to take a couple of deer on hound exercise - really made motorists' heads turn!

Hounds that can't be called off a live scent are a dangerous liability - and while one 'incident' may be tolerated, repeat incidents mean a huntsman will be looking for a new job (and struggling to find one!!) Incidents mean loss of farmer support, the risk of road accidents - and the risk of prosecution!

JG it is not rubbish. I have drag hunted for years and many times have seen hounds called off a live scent.

The unarguable conclusion from this post is that if the OP saw an entire pack of hounds clearly hunting fox then that pack had either been allowed to hunt that fox by the Huntsman or were out of his control.

That was also my conclusion, and I am mystified why you have opened that part of the discussion again when your main post was so wonderfully balanced.