Docking ban, Desparate news for working dogs in Scotland!

[Tia]

I am talking about the breed....it is NOT a Labrador, it's correct name is a Labrador Retriever.

 

[severnmiles]

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I am talking about the breed....it is NOT a Labrador, it's correct name is a Labrador Retreiver.

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And we are talking about Retrievers...they're a completely different breed to a lab!

 

[RunToEarth]

Oh yes I have seen some nasty accidents with spaniels up on the grouse moors down here whilst working- not so many because the vast majority are docked- It will go on despite a ban, I am certain of it.

 

[severnmiles]

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It will go on despite a ban, I am certain of it.

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Yep, just like other things the ruddy morons in suits ban.....

 

[Tia]

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I know heaps of labs out but not one retriever

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Was your previous quote - to which I replied they are Labrador Retrievers......

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And we are talking about Retrievers

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And now you are talking about Golden Retrievers....I know fine well that Labrador Retrievers and not the same as Golden Retrievers LOL!! I was purely pointing out the inaccuracy of your previous post which could lead to misunderstanding......

 

[severnmiles]

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I know heaps of labs out but not one retriever

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Was your previous quote - to which I replied they are Labrador Retrievers......

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And we are talking about Retrievers

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And now you are talking about Golden Retrievers....I know fine well that Labrador Retrievers and not the same as Golden Retrievers LOL!! I was purely pointing out the inaccuracy of your previous post which could lead to misunderstanding......

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Ooooo you're soooo pernickety!

 

[GinaB]

Bad thing is, yes docking will probably continue but by untrained ones who don't know what they're doing would be my fear.

 

[Tia]

Now I really don't know how you can possibly say that!! Let alone believe it

. Me pernickity....never, LOL!!

 

[emma69]

My Lab certainly uses his tail for balance, watching him run a mile a minute round fields and you see his tail counter balancing him. Our last Lab has his dew claws cut off as a little one, watching my Lab now and I feel unbelievably cruel - I was told they don't use them - well my dog certainly does, they are his 'thumbs' that he uses when prying things open, etc.

 

[Tia]

Perhaps spaniels don't use their tails for balance........

 

[GinaB]

Spaniels tails are big thumping sticks for unsuspecting people walking by!

 

[emma69]

Now where is she when you want to ask these questions... Spaniel, oh Spaniel? do you use your tail for... oh never mind!

 

[Tia]

Well that's true without doubt! I'd never allow my long-tailed spaniel in my house.....cups would be flying!!

 

[ihatework]

I've read this debate with interest and have to agree that working spaniels are far better off with their tails docked. I myself have a lab, I take him out beating and he works very well but unlike the spaniels does not go into the very dense thorny bushes, he flushes and retrieves but goes about it in a very different way to the spaniels.

 

[Skhosu]

Glad to hear it. Think its out of date and never saw the reason behind it.

 

[Malibu]

big thing here right now- as you may know we breed dosg (use as pets working and showing as well as breeding) now i am AGAINTS ALOT FO THINGS, as rather"soft heart" but i do think that for sake of small pain it is worth it rather than getting trapper and having to operate on such painful area. we band our, some CUT!!!!! so bands on at approx day 3 so old enough to handle it not weak and bones are VERY SOFT!!! taisl just fall off, no pain at all, only get distressted when you pick them up to put bands on BUT they do that when ever you pick them up, they dont SEEM to feel a a thing AND i think the scottisih exec and gov SHOULD/NEED to concentrate on faaaar more serious matters regarding animals and not on something that really helps the dog in long term!

at least vets will be making ALOT of money from alot of op's to tails, not that they need to make any more money fo us anyway!
anyone detect i am rather angry about this all! lots of nonsence!

 

[Malibu]

will add we dock a small amount so about 3/4's of tail left so long enough for balance, working, through water etc BUT cnat get trapped easilky or bang of wall through door etc! some say they use for water well some dogs are not worked through water!!!! RETRIVERS ARE AND hpr's but not pointer or hunters, they should not have to go through water to retieve. also with regards to it going on despite ban, well of course, BUT there is exception that working dogs can have them docked, but who can prove it a working and non working dog unless some sort of test and certificate, scotland has yet to show us a full proof legislation!

 

[severnmiles]

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Perhaps spaniels don't use their tails for balance........

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Yes they probably do but you can't compare the way labs and spaniels work. Surely the welfare of the animal is paramount?

 

[severnmiles]

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Well that's true without doubt! I'd never allow my long-tailed spaniel in my house.....cups would be flying!!

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Now imagine that tail in a thick covert full of brambles and blackthorn, for a start finding a blackthorn in a spaniels tail would be hard work, especially if you didn't know it was there and remember blackthorn poisening is deadly.

 

[severnmiles]

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Glad to hear it. Think its out of date and never saw the reason behind it.

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Perhaps that reason is because you've never seen terriers and spaniels at work.

 

[welshcobabe]

I have had springer spanials all my life, and I have bred and trained them I have never docked any, in my view is barbaric.
I have never had a working dog injury its tail while working I understand that other folk have strong veiws on the subject but to to me a springer working with it full tail wagging is a thing of beauty.

 

[Sooty]

So do you totally shave them then? Don't they get cold?

 

[jj4y]

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Perhaps spaniels don't use their tails for balance........

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Yes they probably do but you can't compare the way labs and spaniels work. Surely the welfare of the animal is paramount?

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I totally agree...there is no way spaniels and labs can be compared in the way that they work. Yes some labs will enter cover, but they no where near work the cover as hard as a spaniel does. When docking is done correctly the pups hardly notice what is going on and it certainly doesn't affect them. It is done to improve the dog's welfare when working and i am fully in favour of it. However, i'm not in favour of docking purely for cosmetic reasons.

 

[Sooty]

How would you know what a puppy does or doesn't notice? That is a bit presumptuous. It all boils down to fashion. I look forward to being proved wrong, but I have yet to see any evidence of long-term damage to a dog's tail because it isn't docked. Obviously there is the odd one, and the tails of Great Danes often split as they are very spindly - should be dock all dogs just to be on the safe side? Let's mutilate all the newborn puppies.

 

[severnmiles]

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I have had springer spanials all my life, and I have bred and trained them I have never docked any, in my view is barbaric.

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You've obviously never seen any pups docked then, barbaric is a ridiculous word to use.

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I have never had a working dog injury its tail while working I understand that other folk have strong veiws on the subject but to to me a springer working with it full tail wagging is a thing of beauty.

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Blood stained tail a 'thing of beauty', how warped.

We're not just talking spaniels here we're talking terriers that work in earths too.

 

[severnmiles]

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So do you totally shave them then? Don't they get cold?

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I don't understand you Sooty.

 

[severnmiles]

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However, i'm not in favour of docking purely for cosmetic reasons.

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Me neither

 

[severnmiles]

Its not presumptuous, you can tell if a pup is in discomfort by its reactions.

Mutilate is rather a severe word, we're not injuring the pups.

 

[Sooty]

Not injuring? Cutting off the end of a dog's spine? A tail is not a decoration to be removed on the whim of a human! Mutiliate is exactly the right word.

 

[severnmiles]

So now docking = sever injury.

Oh come on!