Docking ban, Desparate news for working dogs in Scotland!

[DiNorth]

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2007/02/07102500

The Scottish Executive announced yesterday that there will be NO exemption from the docking ban for working dogs.
Therefore from 30th April 2007 TAIL DOCKING OF ALL DOGS IS BANNED IN SCOTLAND

Many people have given up much of their own time to help fight this ban, collecting data, lobbying members of parliament, as well as advising others how to do so. I would like to extend a huge thankyou to all those who bothered to take the time to try to make a difference. Many of these do not even reside in Scotland yet still feel strongly enough to support us. This does not mean that we are giving up! If this ridiculous ban is ever to be overturned, we still need as much hard evidence (photos, vets reports and the like) as possible to show that undocked working dogs do incur injury to their tails!
So if anyone actually does still care please do not give up. Carry on fighting for the welfare of these loyal working animals, to prevent future injury to long tailed working dogs.
Diane

 

[severnmiles]

How bloody ridiculous!

 

[GinaB]

We've had the docking ban over here for years. My dog was sent down south to get her tail done. Purely for looks though. When it's for a practical purpose (working dogs) and it's done properly I have no problem with it

 

[Maesfen]

Another working party that doesn't know the first thing about what they're discussing; a great shame for the dogs.

Is there anything to stop you taking or keeping a docked dog into Scotland or to put it another way, to bring pups over the border to be docked and then taken back again?!

Hopefully, like the hunting ban, you will be able to find gaping great holes! I do hope so for the dogs.

 

[Sooty]

Sorry, but why should working dogs be exempt? Gun dogs work, but are not docked! Docking originated for tax reasons, and is barbaric and unnecessary.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but why should working dogs be exempt? Gun dogs work, but are not docked! Docking originated for tax reasons, and is barbaric and unnecessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they are, how many working springers and pointers are left with whole tails? When I used to go beating there was one little springer who didn't have a docked tail, it was always bright red with blood.

You must have an understanding of gun dogs and working terriers and what they do to see the need of why they should be docked.

 

[Sooty]

Sorry, I meant retrievers. D'oh!

 

[DiNorth]

Not all working dogs require tail docking. Retrievers/ Lab types use their tails in a different manner to spaniel types. Although more often worked in the open Labs & the like have a very different tail carriage & movement to that of the spaniel types. The spaniel’s tails thrash so vigorously that damage from hunting through cover can cause amazing damage to a long tail! Once damaged, the tail injury takes a long time to heal due to the natural movement & behaviour of the animal. Often the injury re-occurs & can lead to further health problems. I do not agree with tail docking for cosmetic reasons, but purely for the welfare of the animal & the prevention of unnecessary suffering. Tail docking of a mature animal after injury is a major operation &does not ensure a perfect recovery. However the docking of a pup is not performed in" barbaric" way, a local anaesthetic is used prior to the procedure & recovery is almost immediate. Prevention is better than cure & I for one would sooner have a happy healthy spaniel than one with a bleeding infected tail, just because a government ministers & their advisers refuse listen to the facts from the owners of these dogs & choose to selectively sift through so called scientific evidence.
Diane

 

[GinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
Another working party that doesn't know the first thing about what they're discussing; a great shame for the dogs.

Is there anything to stop you taking or keeping a docked dog into Scotland or to put it another way, to bring pups over the border to be docked and then taken back again?!

Hopefully, like the hunting ban, you will be able to find gaping great holes! I do hope so for the dogs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what happens here. Dogs are sent off down to Eire and done. Although I know someone who just bought a JR pup off a farmer and he'd done them himself. Although he's probably been doing it years and it's a lovely wee neat tail and healed beautifully

 

[airedale]

the real problem lies in the fact that out of every litter of puppies of particular breeds born - how do you know which ones will never see a pheasant or whatever and which ones will

I can see both sides of this argument as I breed Airedales and I won't dock them as nowadays it is unnecessary for them and also the KC breed standard permits either docked or undocked and an imported/foreign undocked Airedale has done very well at Crufts.

After having grown up with airedales all my life it took some getting used to for the long tails but they are fine with it and it does mean that the dog certainly has a 'waggy tail'

however I'm surrounded by a shoot and the working spaniels do get tail injuries

One thing that does seem to help though is if the tail is clipped out to remove the hair - it makes it much easier to spot a bramble thorn or whatever before it causes more infection

I lose sales of puppies due to people not wanting undocked - even though I'm only selling pet quality (except a few have gone showing at their local level and done well and the puppy I retained my vet says is show quality but I haven't got the time).

Dockign will soon be banned in England as well so that isn't a route round it

How do USA gundogs manage as they havent' had docking for a while if I recall correctly ?

 

[Maesfen]

I've yet to meet anyone around here who docks their own dogs make anything but a quick neat job tbh. If done correctly, quickly and cleanly, the pups tend to make no more fuss than they do about having dewclaws done which is zilch! I do however agree that there is no need just for cosmetic purposes but working dogs are an entirely different matter and it should be done within days of being born, any later then they should be done by a vet under anesthetic.
But that is just my view, I don't expect everyone to share it!

 

[GinaB]

Well, obviously I didn't see it being done but it's a nice tidy wee tail he's been left with.
I do agree with you as well though. If I had a choice where my shnauzer was concerned I wouldn't of had her docked. Don't particularly like the tail, but that's not the point.

 

[Tia]

My little spaniel has a long undocked tail. She works pretty much every day, running around in our woods flushing out birds and wildlife and we have a tonne of brambles and dense undergrowth. She rarely injures herself, in fact I honestly can't think of any time she has

.

 

[vicijp]

Theyll be banning castration next!

 

[Sooty]

Hardly the same thing! Dogs tails are there for a reason - they are part of their balance system, and how they communicate. They are a physical necessity, not an optional extra to be chopped off for fashion or because a dog may possibly be a working dog. Our neighbours' working collies have to encounter all sorts of conditions yet they are not docked. It is a practice supported by the Kennel Club for appearance reasons and is wrong.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Theyll be banning castration next!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep! Nobody whinges about godknows how many bull calves being castrated without pain killers... yet they whinge about a teeny pup having its tail snipped.

 

[DiNorth]

Feel that I have to point out, that for many years now it has only been legal for dogs docked by a vet. If Wales has had a different law passed then I stand corrected.
Diane

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Hardly the same thing! Dogs tails are there for a reason - they are part of their balance system, and how they communicate. They are a physical necessity, not an optional extra to be chopped off for fashion or because a dog may possibly be a working dog. Our neighbours' working collies have to encounter all sorts of conditions yet they are not docked. It is a practice supported by the Kennel Club for appearance reasons and is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

A physical necessity for a wild dog yes but not a domesticated one. A tail is for balance, for when the dog hunted its prey.

I've never known collies work a day through thick brambles/blackthorn/hawthorn/dog rose e.t.c Nor a retriever!

 

[DiNorth]

[ QUOTE ]
Hardly the same thing! Dogs tails are there for a reason - they are part of their balance system, and how they communicate. They are a physical necessity, not an optional extra to be chopped off for fashion or because a dog may possibly be a working dog. Our neighbours' working collies have to encounter all sorts of conditions yet they are not docked. It is a practice supported by the Kennel Club for appearance reasons and is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
While a collie may wag his tail to show pleasure, if you watch them work they usually do so with a still, low tail carriage.
Docked dogs are still able to wag & show emotion.
Diane

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
I've yet to meet anyone around here who docks their own dogs make anything but a quick neat job tbh. If done correctly, quickly and cleanly, the pups tend to make no more fuss than they do about having dewclaws done which is zilch! I do however agree that there is no need just for cosmetic purposes but working dogs are an entirely different matter and it should be done within days of being born, any later then they should be done by a vet under anesthetic.
But that is just my view, I don't expect everyone to share it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly MFH_09 if the idiots that made the law bothered to see the reasons working dogs are docked and see a litter done properly(and not even by a vet) they would forget the law completely.

 

[Sooty]

LOL! Have you never seen a domestic dog out for a run? It uses its tail as a rudder to slow down, and to go round corners at speed. Larger dogs that are routinely docked, like Boxers and Rottweilers, are prone to knee and hip problems because of extra strain put on these joints after docking. Retrievers will retrieve from anywhere, and round here a lot of birds fall into ditches which are full of brambles.

 

[wireweiners]

Docking, ear cropping and dewclaw removal are not banned in the US although I believe that a couple of states have tried to ban them. I don't have a problem with docking as long as it's done when the pups are young. I don't have a docked breed but I had a friend with schnauzers who docked her pups at around 3 days old. Didn't faze them a bit. Personally I think docked breeds look odd with long tails, sort of out of balance. I think this is because breeders haven't been breeding for tails that matched the dog's body. Ear cropping is another matter. I think that is very painful plus a pain to look after.

Why is it that the English pointers are allowed to have long tails but the German and European breeds and the spaniels do not? I've never understood this.

 

[severnmiles]

But originally that was for hunting, they wouldn't have done alot after hunting and playing therefore the tail served the purpose of helping with balance when hunting. Originally (when god made dogs

) he didn't give them a tail thinking, this will do good when the humans domesticate them and start throwing balls for them!!

Our little JRT can turn on a 6 pence....just think, if you've never had something...how can you miss it?

"like Boxers and Rottweilers, are prone to knee and hip problems because of extra strain put on these joints after docking"

And how do you explaing those problems in GSD's/BSD's then?

Retrievers aren't popular working dogs either. More a house dog, can't say I've ever met one out shooting so I can't comment on them!

 

[Sooty]

I know a few people who use Labs and GRs for retrieving - complete with tails. The problems associated with docking are more to do with strain on ligaments, the problems with dysplasia are due to breeding with an existing fault and breeding from poor stock initially.

 

[severnmiles]

I know heaps of labs out but not one retriever (where we used to be), they work completely different to a spaniel though.

So where is the scientific evidence to support what you say? Actually needn't bother, all of these scientific reports are always biased whether its to support your thoughts or mine!

 

[severnmiles]

The first week is an ideal time, before they've opened their eyes.

 

[Tia]

A Labrador IS a Retriever though. Their correct KC name is Labrador Retreiver.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
A Labrador IS a Retriever though. Their correct KC name is Labrador Retreiver.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're talking about the breed and not its job.

 

[RunToEarth]

IMO totally pants- working dogs are not docked for looks.

 

[GinaB]

And it is understandable why the likes of Pointers and Spaniels are docked, but not labs. Labds tails are a lot more 'heavy duty' than the likes of a pointer. And they work perfectly fine without them. Spaniels tails 'thrash' a lot. I'd rather it docked than see if damage itself out working