Does anyone NOT stable?

nikicb

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sorry, but I think op raises a good point. Hard standing combined with stables gives them even more freedom. That can't be a bad thing if they can't go on the fields!

I think you may need to re read her post in its entirety. I don't think any of us disagree that a bit of hard standing is useful if you are able to have it, but the rest.....

if horses living quarters were the same as those in zoos, there would be legislation against the type and amount of confinementto a 12 x 12 cage some use. Ok, responsible owners get them out and about from time to time but a stable is still quite a confinement for such a big animal but it’s not considered to be so. Is it because horses fall under the legislation of urban as well as rural work animals, still? Cribbing, weaving, wind sucking, box walking, kicking walls ....are these just products of our horses screaming to be heard?
 
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sorry, but I think op raises a good point. Hard standing combined with stables gives them even more freedom. That can't be a bad thing if they can't go on the fields!

And nobody was criticising it, just pointing out that it's what's best for the individual. My two who can't/won't be stabled have a sort of hard standing bit with a shelter, natural shelter and lots of space to stop any one place getting very muddy and seem quite happy. Let's face it: if we could custom make yards to suit each and every horse that would be ideal, but it isn't possible.
 

JFTDWS

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I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...

Indeed. I wouldn't keep horses in 24/7, other than for short term necessity, and mine live out as much as possible. We're on clay, on a livery yard (not huge acreage) but they're still living out. Realistically, that won't last much longer - when the rain comes, inevitably, they'll come in at night until spring. In this area, on clay, that's about the best I can do. Wherever they are, I ensure they're appropriately exercised, fed and managed for their needs - there are plenty of folk out there whose horses are considerably less well kept, despite being chucked in a field 24/7 all year round...
 

Achinghips

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I think you may need to re read her post in its entirety. I don't think any of us disagree that a bit of hard standing is useful if you are able to have it, but the rest.....

Ok, but she raises v good points. It's nice to see new contributors to the forum who bring further points for discussion, trouble is this forum jumps on people, new posters especially and unapologetically, I think. Not that she will probably post again after this, so who cares ....
 

TheMule

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My horses live out because they are happy, healthy and settled. I have enough acreage for them to always have grass, space and natural shelter. I do have an area of hard standing with a huge field shelter for when the weather is at it's worst in the depths of winter and they will spend time shut on that overnight (last year for a total of 3 weeks)
I don't really agree with keeping horses in a 12 x 12 box. I understand that grazing is short in some parts of the country and therefore needs must but I think we really need to look at a higher standard of welfare- including outdoor pens attached to every stable or keeping them in small groups in barns.
 

Achinghips

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My horses live out because they are happy, healthy and settled. I have enough acreage for them to always have grass, space and natural shelter. I do have an area of hard standing with a huge field shelter for when the weather is at it's worst in the depths of winter and they will spend time shut on that overnight (last year for a total of 3 weeks)
I don't really agree with keeping horses in a 12 x 12 box. I understand that grazing is short in some parts of the country and therefore needs must but I think we really need to look at a higher standard of welfare- including outdoor pens attached to every stable or keeping them in small groups in barns.

My stables are 10.5 X 11 ... Unusable, for my big neds.
 

Sophstar

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My youngster is living out 24/7 and the remaining members of the herd stay in their stable either through the day or overnight. Each to their own, i intend him staying out all winter unless he drops weight that I can't rectify with feeding. I've been introducing his stable to him by putting his feed in there so if in an emergency he had to stay in, it wouldn't be an entire new concept of staying in a stable. All depends on your yard and your horses needs. At my old yard, despite my previous 2 ponies having always lived out 24/7, the mud got so bad and deep, they well and truly appreciated a dry place to sleep and eat, it allowed their legs to dry off and gave me the opportunity to thoroughly check their legs for mud fever. Only because my ponies were so accepting of their muzzles and I was allowed to create a small bare paddock, was i able to keep them out 24/7 in summer. As long as the horse is happy i see no problem with using stables. A horse at my current yard lives in all day bar 4 hours turnout. No it's not how I would manage a horse but the horse appears content and the owner feels in control of dealing with the horse's issues.
 

Rosiejazzandpia

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My horse lives out happily with a small herd. She comes into her stable twice a day for feeds and hay, but always wants to go back out with her mates. I would never stable a horse unless absolutley necessary, such as box rest, but even then I would make a grass pen.
 

DabDab

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Ok, but she raises v good points. It's nice to see new contributors to the forum who bring further points for discussion, trouble is this forum jumps on people, new posters especially and unapologetically, I think. Not that she will probably post again after this, so who cares ....

But really is there any need? Horses are kept to a high standard in all sorts of different ways, and even if the OP doesn't believe that then the confrontational tone of their post is hardly likely to change people's minds...so all a bit pointless really, unless the intention was to rile people.

Lots of people keep horses without the use of stables, it is hardly a revolutionary concept. Mine have access to small paddocks out the back of their stables most of the time when they are in their stables rather than the main field. And while one would happily spend all her time outside, the other two are rather too fond of their creature comforts and appreciate the dry comfy bed, stacks of haylage and peace and quiet of their four walls. Like many people on here, I keep my horses how best keeps them happy, not only because I'm rather fond of them, but also because happy horses are a damn sight easier to deal with
 

Achinghips

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But really is there any need? Horses are kept to a high standard in all sorts of different ways, and even if the OP doesn't believe that then the confrontational tone of their post is hardly likely to change people's minds...so all a bit pointless really, unless the intention was to rile people.

Lots of people keep horses without the use of stables, it is hardly a revolutionary concept. Mine have access to small paddocks out the back of their stables most of the time when they are in their stables rather than the main field. And while one would happily spend all her time outside, the other two are rather too fond of their creature comforts and appreciate the dry comfy bed, stacks of haylage and peace and quiet of their four walls. Like many people on here, I keep my horses how best keeps them happy, not only because I'm rather fond of them, but also because happy horses are a damn sight easier to deal with

I didn't read it as confrontational, just someone with an opinion about over stabling. Trouble is many but not all, of course, liveries these days don't offer enough turnout due to the fact they pack them in on the land to turn any type of profit. Livery prices are just too cheap for yard owners to survive, so I see why they do it. Doesn't make it right though and I think it's something we should question.
 

Casey76

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Keeping a horse on hard standing is hardly natural either is it?

They can't dig or root around; it's not exactly an inviting (or giving) surface to roll and lie down.

Extremism in any view is bad. Just because some people choose to stable for part of the day doesn't make them abusive.
 

windand rain

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Dont think anyone including me who feels it is cruel suggested all horses should live out 24/7 regardless of health well being and costs to the welfare of the animal It is the livery yards who feel it is ok to stop all turnot for 6-8 months of the year because they have over stocked the land. In my ancient experience the damage to land is usually caused by horses that have been stable extensively careering about bucking and kicking in exuberance. Horses that spend longer hours outside do far less damage to land. I did say Iti s tolerable for a horse to be stabled overnight but not 24/7. If it is a livery rule for no turnout there will be some owners who do not ride their horses much or at all, those horses may well spend 23 or more hours in a cell all being a relatively comfortable one but I must admit I dont think I would like to eat sleep and spend 23 hours a day in a toilet. Yes anthropomorphism at its best but not a lot different for a flight animal
 

Achinghips

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I think we all try our best with what we have. But there's no doubt about it ... stable vices are there for a reason. Ideally we would keep them in fields all the time and have enough land to go around. I have rubber matting outside my stables to make hard standing easier on the old joints. I like the idea of opening up the manège for them though to give them a break from the stable and hard standing when my fields are too wet or if I've just overseeded, just want to know if I could muck it out or whether I'd lose half my surface over time ...
 
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Rollin

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I am lucky to have 30 acres, 6 field shelters and 15 loose boxes for 12 horses. My horses LOVE their stables. Those that are competing are already in at night, one stallion two brood mares a 2 year old CB and a 3 year old ShagyaxCB will come in at the beginning of December. They get turnout for at least 6 hours per day in December and January. They have deep straw beds, like to be with all their pals. Our two stallions have boxes with talk grills so they can be nose to nose with a favourite mare.

In the summer when flies are about they will be at the gate by 10.00am begging to come in, even though they have field shelters.

I have someone coming to see my Shagya mare on Sunday, he is very persistent, he wants a Shagya already broken and competing, has not balked at her price(not cheap) but I may not sell her to him if he does not have the facilities to care for her that she is used to. So many people ask "Why is your mare for sale still" the reason she has to go to there right home.
 

cobgoblin

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I can't really see what the discussion is here.

Most owners are bound by the rules of their livery yard and/or availability of land and stables.
For those of us lucky enough to have our horses at home then the methods of keeping them can be more driven by the horses preferences or the need to restrict grazing. Mine could live out all year round but in the summer they would be obese, hot and pestered by flies and in the winter they like a cosy nap.... That's fine by me.
 

Achinghips

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One of my lads has copd, so can't be stabled. He just wouldn't cope in a stable, another of mine has arthritis and needs to move around and a third doesn't seem to mind her stable. I have seen DIY stables at livery with a small turnout pen attached to each stable, I remember the clay there was horrendous though ...
 

Cortez

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There are plenty of horses that are out 24/7 that are not being cared for properly. Slopping around in mud is hardly fun, or indeed "natural". IF a horse is indeed being kept in 24 hours a day then that is not a good management system, but stabled horses should be getting adequate exercise, or indeed actual work....or at least they would be if kept by experienced horsemen. Part of managing horses is also land management, something that livery clients may not be acquainted with.
 

PonyIAmNotFood

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I agree with the posters saying 24/7 turnout isn't necessarily the best thing, I've seen horses thrown in fields and ignored for 6 months until the weather is better. That's neglect, I think my horses who are in at night year round were happier than the ones down the road, left in knee deep clay mud with very poor grazing. Horses for courses, there's no where round me offers 24/7 turnout, the land doesn't allow it.
 

Crugeran Celt

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Mine live out 24/7 with very good natural shelter but they do have access to their stables which they only use in the summer to get away from the flies. My stables need a bit of work and k am seriously considering taking them down to replace with a large shelter split into two instead. I wouldn't keep a horse if it had to be stabled for any length of time but I know plenty of people who do and one yard where horses are turned out for just an hour or two a day in a small menage the rest of the time in very small stables with just matting and no bedding. Wouldn't be right for my horses.
 

claireandnadia

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We have fab grazing and we have the option to 24/7 turnout from May to October which un-restricted daily turnout during the winter.
As a general rule, I like to keep out as much as poss during the summer but with 1 or 2 nights in a week and winter they are out from 7.30am to 6pm.
In a couple of years I'm planning on moving up to Lancashire where I am informed it is 24/7 IN during the winter. Can't say I am overjoyed at this but will have to see what I can find maybe slightly out of the area that offers daily turnout.
 

MagicMelon

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Yes, I believe its stabling can be viewed as cruel in a lot of cases. Obviously there may be times when a horse must be stabled such as for veterinary reasons. But for people to stable for decent reason other than they dont have enough grazing or they think their horse prefers it etc. is wrong IMO. The size of stable is of big concern too, a 12x12 is tiny IMO for anything more than a small pony, then there's the fact that some horses cant even see out which must be the dullest thing on earth. People seem to try to treat the vices that arise rather than realise the horse is screaming to be heard. I hate that so many horsey people think its perfectly acceptable and almost normal to stable their horse especially for long periods. I wouldnt put a dog in a crate like that so I dont see why people find it acceptable to do that to a horse. I know people say they have no choice as no yards offer winter turnout etc. but in that case Im sorry but I wouldnt own a horse if I couldnt provide it with basic things like at least daily turnout and a chance to socialise with other horses.

I have always kept my horses at home. I had my stables built in my horses field so I can leave the doors open 24/7 and they just come and go as they please. I made sure the stables were also made bigger than usual ones (I think they're 18x19 if I remember. )If they want to be in, they come in, if they want to go out they go out. Its a basic system but one I find works and Ive never had a horse develop any weird behavioural issues or vices.
 

Goldenstar

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There are plenty of horses that are out 24/7 that are not being cared for properly. Slopping around in mud is hardly fun, or indeed "natural". IF a horse is indeed being kept in 24 hours a day then that is not a good management system, but stabled horses should be getting adequate exercise, or indeed actual work....or at least they would be if kept by experienced horsemen. Part of managing horses is also land management, something that livery clients may not be acquainted with.

I think you are wasting your time here .
 

cobgoblin

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Yes, I believe its stabling can be viewed as cruel in a lot of cases. Obviously there may be times when a horse must be stabled such as for veterinary reasons. But for people to stable for decent reason other than they dont have enough grazing or they think their horse prefers it etc. is wrong IMO. .

I'll tell that to mine the next time they are having a massive grump because they haven't been brought in for a few hours in their luxury 12x24 brick built stables.
 

Achinghips

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Goodness, I must have really skimped when I put the new stables in. Two 12x 14s and a 12 x 16. Sometimes they have to stay in them overnight :eek3:.

Til I read this thread I didn't realise how cruel I was to my poor neds.

Where does it say that stabling occasionally overnight in a 12 X 14 or 12 X 16 stable is cruel? Lot of extrapolation there!
 
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