Dog driving me nuts at night

[CorvusCorax]

My kennelled lot have been trained to start howling when I flush the loo, as it’s that corner if the house. .
And the best noise to get a quick reaction… a house dog building g up to a vomit.

I can get from my bed to the back door in 0.5 of a second if I hear HUCK...HUCK...HUCK

 

[Widgeon]

And the best noise to get a quick reaction… a house dog building g up to a vomit.

Oh yes....ours sleeps on the end of our bed and I have an uncanny sixth sense for when he's about to start retching. It's funny, I don't wake up if he's just moving around (which he does a lot) but if he's not quite right, I just know, despite being asleep! Bizarre.

 

[Morwenna]

Mine sleeps in her crate in my room and after the first night she settles straight away. She went through a funny phase a few months ago of being really reluctant to go in her crate, she’d jump in my bed and roll over and generally look scared so I blocked access to me bed and checked her biscuits in her crate and let her go in in her own time. After a few days she was back to racing me upstairs and pushing the crate door open with her nose and jumping in to wait for her biscuits.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

A lot of research shows that if you allow a dog to cry and for that crying to escalate they panic sooner next time. I also know this to be true in her case because I made the mistake of letting her cry previously and it really set her back. Also, some of us have neighbours and I'm not going to inflict a crying dog on them.

At the end of the day, do what works for you, and your dog. I like @DabDab 's suggestion, better to forestall the problem, than first wait for it to occur, and then try to fix it.

Have you tried an Adaptil diffuser? It sounds like just the type of situation where Adaptil might be helpful.

 

[Rowreach]

I would also make sure it's you that puts her to bed every night, even if your OH is at home, and even if you are going to bed before him.

My three (plus the cat) tell me if I'm a bit late with the bedtime routine. It's last wees in the garden while I put the kettle on for my hot water bottle, tiny milk biscuit each, into bed, lights out, shut door.

 

[Teaselmeg]

You are not being soft by not letting her get upset, nor are you teaching her to whine. Something is not right in her world and she needs understanding.

I would give her free range of the house, let her sleep wherever she feels happiest/safest. Let her get over what is upsetting her and then in a few weeks/months try again if you really want her to stay in a particular room. Alternatively get in a qualified behaviourist to see what is going on, sometimes it's totally not what you think.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

You are not being soft by not letting her get upset, nor are you teaching her to whine. Something is not right in her world and she needs understanding.

I would give her free range of the house, let her sleep wherever she feels happiest/safest. Let her get over what is upsetting her and then in a few weeks/months try again if you really want her to stay in a particular room. Alternatively get in a qualified behaviourist to see what is going on, sometimes it's totally not what you think.

Gosh that does all seem a bit OTT for OP's dog that has a pretty minor issue considering how far she has come with training and rehabilitating her lovely dog.

Compared to many on here I am far from an expert on dog training but have had a fair few of varying breeds over the years. Your advice does seem to me like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut, I do not mean that in an insulting or rude way, just that I don't see where you are coming from with this advice. Can you please explain more so an eejit like me can understand your perspective on training this particular dog for this particular issue?

 

[skinnydipper]

Can you please explain more so an eejit like me can understand your perspective on training this particular dog for this particular issue?

I'm not Teaselmeg but I'll have a go.

The dog isn't a problem, she has a problem. What is the problem?

Leaving her to cry it out or get over it is not the answer.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Sorry @skinnydipper I am non the wiser with that answer. I think it is pretty clear that the dog has a problem for sure, as far as I can see she would rather Mr. AP tucked her in last thing and if Mrs AP is the only one available then she will have a mini strop to manipulate Mrs. AP? She is also unable to enforce her preference with others looking after her, so just goes to bed no fuss. But with AP supervising bedtime she has taught herself how to manipulate the bed time palaver to suit herself.

I think those who have suggested making a very clear and unchanging bedtime routine and sticking to it sounds sensible and more or less what we (and a lot of other owners by the sounds of it) do ourselves. I really cant see this warrants getting a behaviorist in or allowing the dog to completely rule the roost at bedtime for weeks or months to come, that will surely put back all the excellent training and rehab that OP has already achieved?

Leaving her to cry it out or get over it is not the answer.

Fair enough,, that is your opinion and one that OP clearly does not want to do either but If this is not the answer then what would you do? What has been suggested by others is far from shut the door on her and leave her screaming the place down in distress, creating a routine and sticking with it seems pretty sensible to me?

 

[skinnydipper]

Sorry @skinnydipper I am non the wiser with that answer. I think it is pretty clear that the dog has a problem for sure, as far as I can see she would rather Mr. AP tucked her in last thing and if Mrs AP is the only one available then she will have a mini strop to manipulate Mrs. AP? She is also unable to enforce her preference with others looking after her, so just goes to bed no fuss. But with AP supervising bedtime she has taught herself how to manipulate the bed time palaver to suit herself.

I don't believe that dogs are manipulative, not the way you are suggesting, that is a human trait.

I have already agreed with posts that have suggested sitting quietly with Fodhla until she is settled and then leaving her and going to bed.

Is she crying and unsettled because she feels insecure or doesn't feel safe? If that is the reason then shutting her in her crate and leaving her to get on with it is extremely bad advice - in my humble opinion.

***********

I didn't offer any advice to AP because I have no experience with this problem. My dogs have never been confined to a crate or a room, they have always had the run of the house.

We do have a routine here in that I usually go to bed at about the same time every night, my dog knows this. I say bed time and she is away, waiting for me at the top of the stairs. She sleeps in my room, on my bed usually. If I'm late making a move she will come and lay her head on my leg in case I have forgotten the time.

I didn't say any of this because it wouldn't be helpful to AP and Fodhla.


Edit, spelling.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I don't believe that dogs are manipulative

Oh I do - they are also pretty good at training us!

As for the rest of your post I accept what you say even if it isn't quite the same as my opinion. I did not realise that Fodhla is shut in a crate at night, that does shed a slightly different light on it from my point of view. Ours do have cages but the doors have been removed, they now use them by choice at night but have a very large kitchen area with a sofa and another couple of dog beds available. I would not leave an adult dog crated all night.

 

[skinnydipper]

Well maybe she doesn't now sleep in a crate, I don't know but she is shut in a room away from her human and she is upset. Neither you nor I know why she is upset. A few posts have suggested leaving her to get on with it, whatever her problem is that isn't going to make her feel any better about it.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Well maybe she doesn't now sleep in a crate, I don't know but she is shut in a room away from her human and she is upset. Neither you nor I know why she is upset. A few posts have suggested leaving her to get on with it, whatever her problem is that isn't going to make her feel any better about it.

And several other posts have made different suggestions, which don't involve leaving her to get on with it. None of which necessitate leaving the dog to roam the house, or contacting a behaviourist - many of whom have no clue.

 

[skinnydipper]

And several other posts have made different suggestions, which don't involve leaving her to get on with it. None of which necessitate leaving the dog to roam the house, or contacting a behaviourist - many of whom have no clue.

I think you will find that I agreed with the posts that suggested sitting with her until she is settled.

I liked Teaselmeg's post for the first sentence. Have you ever 'liked' a post but not agreed with all of it?

You are not being soft by not letting her get upset, nor are you teaching her to whine. Something is not right in her world and she needs understanding.

 

[skinnydipper]

Leaving a dog to cry it out or get on with it, as has been suggested, doesn't change how Fodhla feels and could result in learned helplessness, which I am sure nobody here would want.

 

[CorvusCorax]

This is why my dogs never really have a routine. Are we getting up at 4am for a five hour drive? Are we lying in until 10.30? Is bedtime at 10pm or midnight? Is it a 45 minute yomp or am I going to stand in one place and throw food side to side for ten minutes for you to chase? WHO KNOWS! IT'S A SURPRISE IN CHAOS TOWERS! I tell you one thing, it's hard enough dealing with a couple of lunatics when I am injured, if they were expecting certain things at certain times, it would be a whole lot tougher.

 

[skinnydipper]

...

 

[Rowreach]

This is why my dogs never really have a routine. Are we getting up at 4am for a five hour drive? Are we lying in until 10.30? Is bedtime at 10pm or midnight? Is it a 45 minute yomp or am I going to stand in one place and throw food side to side for ten minutes for you to chase? WHO KNOWS! IT'S A SURPRISE IN CHAOS TOWERS! I tell you one thing, it's hard enough dealing with a couple of lunatics when I am injured, if they were expecting certain things at certain times, it would be a whole lot tougher.

Well quite.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

This is why my dogs never really have a routine. Are we getting up at 4am for a five hour drive? Are we lying in until 10.30? Is bedtime at 10pm or midnight? Is it a 45 minute yomp or am I going to stand in one place and throw food side to side for ten minutes for you to chase? WHO KNOWS! IT'S A SURPRISE IN CHAOS TOWERS! I tell you one thing, it's hard enough dealing with a couple of lunatics when I am injured, if they were expecting certain things at certain times, it would be a whole lot tougher.

Currently I only have 2 'routine' timings - 1st human up gets the puppy outside for a pee & then feeds cat & pup.
Other one is - I feed both pets when I get home from doing fuzzy tea run, which could be anything between 4 and 6pm. (The cat is much more irritated about his staff doing as they please with timings, the puppy just grins and wriggles lol)

 

[I'm Dun]

Well maybe she doesn't now sleep in a crate, I don't know but she is shut in a room away from her human and she is upset. Neither you nor I know why she is upset. A few posts have suggested leaving her to get on with it, whatever her problem is that isn't going to make her feel any better about it.

Actually, I disagree. My two are much happier now the boundary has been enforced. If I'm outside and they are inside they get under the duvet and go to sleep. They can also be allowed out sometimes not others. Leaving them to cry it out doesn't work for separation anxiety and is horribly cruel to puppies, but an adult dog who only does this with one owner, is a different scenario.

 

[IrishMilo]

I've been through this with my Dachshund who I made a rod for my own back with! He's 2 and for the first year of his life slept in my bed and came upstairs. Then I met someone, we moved in together etc. and decided we no longer wanted the dogs upstairs (we also have a Lab who moults like crazy).

White noise is your friend! We popped him in the crate, gave him a treat and then left him to figure out no one is coming. It took two nights for him to realise whining won't get him his way...

 

[Teaselmeg]

Gosh that does all seem a bit OTT for OP's dog that has a pretty minor issue considering how far she has come with training and rehabilitating her lovely dog.

Compared to many on here I am far from an expert on dog training but have had a fair few of varying breeds over the years. Your advice does seem to me like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut, I do not mean that in an insulting or rude way, just that I don't see where you are coming from with this advice. Can you please explain more so an eejit like me can understand your perspective on training this particular dog for this particular issue?

Ok, so something is going on with this dog and 'making' her deal with it is not the answer. Learned helplessness in dogs is a very real behaviour and a lot of times, people think the dog is complying, when in fact they have shutdown and given up. A shutdown dog is not cured, and it is likely that she may develop another unwanted behaviour because of how the original behaviour was dealt with. Therefore asking for professional help at this stage would be warranted if the OP wanted to go down that road.

It is well know that leaving a puppy to 'cry it out' can be neurologically damaging and whilst the puppy may eventually give up ( learned helplessness), so in the eyes of the owner, the problem has gone away, what in fact can happen is that separation anxiety is actually more likely once they are older, toilet training can take longer/ recall training can take longer, all because the owner didn't take the time to help them in the first place. I would also have a vet check in case there is a medical reason for the change in behaviour. Odd things happen when a dog is unwell, I know of a dog that started fly snapping in the evening, lots of tests done and it turned out he had a deep seated urine infection, they cleared that up, the fly snapping stopped and never came back. Dogs can be very odd in the way they communicate their problems to us, we need to listen a bit more and not shut them away because that is quicker and easier.

 

[Clodagh]

I disagree with the let the dog sleep in the bed if it’s happiest there idea. I don’t want to sleep in a hairy, gritty bed so to me it’s a non negotiable that I don’t share it with a dog. Those if you who let your dogs sleep wherever they choose, do they also help themselves to counter snacks is if they are peckish? Do you ever tell them what to do, on walks or whatever, or is it all self monitoring? Extreme I know but I don’t get the dog makes the rules thing.

 

[ArklePig]

Last night I sent Mr AP upstairs before bedtime, and then I put her to bed. No messing, no whingeing, in she went, got her biscuit and not a peep.

I'm going to do it every night for the foreseeable so that she doesn't have cause to whinge that her dad isn't there and see if that sorts the issue.

I would never leave my dog to cry it out, but I also don't agree that she needs professional help (yet) when she goes to bed happily 95 (or more) percent of the time.

I can't even begin to get into how far this conversation has evolved so there's the update.

 

[paddy555]

We do have a routine here in that I usually go to bed at about the same time every night, my dog knows this. I say bed time and she is away, waiting for me at the top of the stairs. She sleeps in my room, on my bed usually. If I'm late making a move she will come and lay her head on my leg in case I have forgotten the time.

that is similar to our routine except the dog knows the time and goes to bed a couple of hours earlier than I do so he is already lying asleep on the bed by the time I arrive. We listen to the box together for a while then he moves onto the mat by the side of the bed and sleeps flat out until the morning. Peaceful night, no winging. Morning routine is in reverse, I get up to make coffee, he moves onto the bed and then we lie in bed listening to the early weather forecast.

no self monitoring for mine. I taught him to sleep by the side of the bed. That is where I wanted him to spend the night.




Time must be moving on as he has just come to ask for the bedroom door to be opened.

 

[skinnydipper]

I disagree with the let the dog sleep in the bed if it’s happiest there idea. I don’t want to sleep in a hairy, gritty bed so to me it’s a non negotiable that I don’t share it with a dog. Those if you who let your dogs sleep wherever they choose, do they also help themselves to counter snacks is if they are peckish? Do you ever tell them what to do, on walks or whatever, or is it all self monitoring? Extreme I know but I don’t get the dog makes the rules thing.

I like my dog sleeping on the bed. She gets a cool cotton cover on her side in summer and in winter it's teddy fleece

Does Tawny still join you on the bed?

She’ll get you trained yet, calm and consistent says Tawny. (Lying here on the bed while the rest are downstairs or kennelled).

 

[Clodagh]

I like my dog sleeping on the bed. She gets a cool cotton cover on her side in summer and in winter it's teddy fleece

Does Tawny still join you on the bed?

She doesn’t sleep in it all night. She comes up while I read. Or used to, but now is stuck downstairs, OH put his foot down!

 

[Clodagh]

And I do understand some people like sharing with a dog, and that’s fine too, but for them that choose not to being told it should be allowed to go with you wherever it wants isn’t enormously helpful.

 

[ArklePig]

I'd like my dog to sleep with me tbh. However, my husband doesn't and it's his bed too. Also, I quite like that she can settle in her own bed wherever we are, or if she's with the dog sitter, or god forbid if she had to hospital. I'm not going to bring her to say for example, the in laws, and insist she has to sleep in the bed because that's what she's used to.

Also just to reiterated she does have a bed time routine, it's essentially Mr AP tells her go to bed she goes in, sits, and looks for her treat.

I'm not going to pay a behaviourist £££ to tell me I need to create a routine with myself, when she has zero problems going to bed the vast majority of the time. And this is a dog who has had £££ of behavioural support pumped into her, so it's not like I don't care.

I know I said I couldn't get into the above conversation as it escalated a lot while I wasn't online, but I will briefly.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive, but those who've read my posts elsewhere will know a) I love my dog more than I love anything and b) I'm at a very low ebb at the moment due to a horrible set of personal circumstances. I don't really appreciate an undertone (and maybe it's imagined, but it's now I've read it) that I am just allowing my dog to get distressed, I'm somehow a bad owner for instilling boundaries in a dog who came to me knowing absolutely nothing, and that I'm missing the signals that my dog needs professional help. I'm a big believer in 'meet the dog where they are' and where she is now, is a bit pissed off that I put her to bed when she was waiting for her other human.

@Mrs. Jingle I particularly appreciated your post about how far I've come with my lovely dog thank you

 

[skinnydipper]

I am sorry you are having a rough time, AP.

I am sure this is just a minor blip with Fodhla which can easily be resolved and does not need behaviourist input.