Dog driving me nuts at night

[Morwenna]

I was also a bit baffled at the direction this thread took from a dog that cries / whinges a bit at a change in bedtime routine. She has come on so far from when you first got her and I’ve loved following your progress. My old boy used to hate it if one of us was out at bedtime and would find it hard to settle. He just liked knowing where all his people were.
As I said, mine had a blip a few months ago and was very reluctant to go in her crate at night. She has slept in a crate in my room since the first night and never had any issues. I’m sure some people would think I was mean for standing my ground and not giving her any other option but there was no alternative as there is no way she would settle in my bed and I didn’t fancy spending all night being bounced on by her. It lasted less than a week and now she is more than happy to go in her crate. She often takes herself there during the day so I don’t think I inflicted any deep, psychological damage.
You know your dog best, you didn’t let it escalate to the point she was really distressed and it sounds like the new routine is working so hopefully you will have a smoother time next time Mr AP is out.

 

[paddy555]

I really don't care what people do with their dogs at night your dog, your choice.

However, perhaps my logic is twisted here, if I was to go to work and leave my dog for say 8 hours shut in the sitting room, utility, kitchen or wherever I would be criticised for being a bad owner for leaving the dog on it's own for so long. It may winge, whine and be unhappy to be left alone and separated from me.

I don't see much difference in doing that from going to bed at night which is usually around 8 hours and leaving the dog in the utility, kitchen etc whilst you are upstairs in bed. The dog is still separated, it may know you are in the house but that is all.

If it sleeps in a basket next to your bed (I can appreciate many don't want a dog IN bed) then it is with you for those 8 hours, possibly fast asleep but happy and comfortable that it is with it's human.

If you can train it to sleep alone in the kitchen then you can just as easily train it to lie in it's basket in the bedroom.

 

[Teaselmeg]

I disagree with the let the dog sleep in the bed if it’s happiest there idea. I don’t want to sleep in a hairy, gritty bed so to me it’s a non negotiable that I don’t share it with a dog. Those if you who let your dogs sleep wherever they choose, do they also help themselves to counter snacks is if they are peckish? Do you ever tell them what to do, on walks or whatever, or is it all self monitoring? Extreme I know but I don’t get the dog makes the rules thing.

My dogs have free range, they don't sleep on the bed, but they can sleep in any of 5 beds around the place or the sofas etc. Sometimes they sleep in the beds in our bedroom, sometimes they don't, they have choice and settle really well. There is no bin raiding at night, they are lurchers they like their sleep If one needs a middle of the night wee they can come and tell me.

 

[Teaselmeg]

Last night I sent Mr AP upstairs before bedtime, and then I put her to bed. No messing, no whingeing, in she went, got her biscuit and not a peep.

I'm going to do it every night for the foreseeable so that she doesn't have cause to whinge that her dad isn't there and see if that sorts the issue.

I would never leave my dog to cry it out, but I also don't agree that she needs professional help (yet) when she goes to bed happily 95 (or more) percent of the time.

I can't even begin to get into how far this conversation has evolved so there's the update.

That is good news AP. I only suggested a behaviourist as an option if the problem doesn't resolve itself reasonably quickly, as sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see what is causing an issue. I honestly can't believe that people are offended by this suggestion

I love that you are advocating for your dog, despite those that think you are being soft

 

[TGM]

However, perhaps my logic is twisted here, if I was to go to work and leave my dog for say 8 hours shut in the sitting room, utility, kitchen or wherever I would be criticised for being a bad owner for leaving the dog on it's own for so long. It may winge, whine and be unhappy to be left alone and separated from me.

I don't see much difference in doing that from going to bed at night which is usually around 8 hours and leaving the dog in the utility, kitchen etc whilst you are upstairs in bed. The dog is still separated, it may know you are in the house but that is all.

There is a difference in my eyes though. Leaving a dog for eight hours during the day is not just about separation, it is about lack of toilet breaks and often stimulation/exercise too.

The differences I can see with leaving a dog in another room overnight are:

* Most dogs will be aware there are still people in the house even if they are not in the same room, so won't feel as 'alone' as when people are not in the house at all.

* Most healthy adult dogs can go usually go overnight without needing a toilet break, whereas they might find it harder to go without breaks during the day.

* The dogs are meant to be sleeping at night, so won't require exercise/stimulation.

* If the dog does need attention during the night, whether they need the toilet or need to be sick or are in pain, they can usually be heard by the humans in the house (unless you have a totally massive house and sleep at the other end). Most forum users relate how quickly they can get downstairs at the sound of a dog retching, for example!

Not everyone has room for a dog bed in their bedroom, plus some people may want to travel with their dog or have dog-sitters in, in which case it is easier if the dogs have learned to happily sleep in another room. I've known people who have been unable to go on holiday because they can't get anyone to look after their dogs because the dogs can only sleep in the bedroom or in the bed and their potential dogsitters (be they professional, friends or family) don't want to share with the dog!

If you are happy with your dog sleeping in the bedroom that is fine if it works for you, but it doesn't mean it will work for other people and their dogs, and it certainly not akin to being a bad owner.

To look at it from another perspective, think about a human toddler. You would rightly be prosecuted if you went out and left a toddler home alone for even a few hours. But perfectly legal and normal to have a toddler sleep in a separate room to the parents.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I've just measured it and I sleep a whole twelve steps away from my dogs. Three bounds if someone is in genuine crisis.

I'll surely let them roam free/wherever they want if someone shows me practically how they would train high drive sports dogs that like to have things in their mouths at all times, not to damage anything or swallow anything stupid, when I'm not in the room with them, as my talents have never managed to stretch that far, or offers to pay my landlord for any damage they incur.
But I'm not letting creatures who eat cat shit and wallow in muddy puddles sleep on my bed

 

[skinnydipper]

It is disappointing that a thread where someone was asking for help has turned into this.

If people want to justify where their dog sleeps or criticize someone else's choice of sleeping arrangement, could I suggest they start a new thread and discuss there because I really don't think this is helpful to the OP.

 

[Clodagh]

It is disappointing that a thread where someone was asking for help has turned into this.

If people want to justify where their dog sleeps or criticize someone else's choice of sleeping arrangement, could I suggest they start a new thread and discuss there because I really don't think this is helpful to the OP.

Hopefully the OP is used to the random twists and turns of HHO. Sorry AP!

 

[Rowreach]

It is disappointing that a thread where someone was asking for help has turned into this.

If people want to justify where their dog sleeps or criticize someone else's choice of sleeping arrangement, could I suggest they start a new thread and discuss there because I really don't think this is helpful to the OP.

I think it was probably because people were riding to AP's defence, but yeah

 

[ArklePig]

Hopefully the OP is used to the random twists and turns of HHO. Sorry AP!

I seriously debated over posting, knowing I was somehow going to end up being made to feel like a terrible dog owner, and I still did it so I only have myself to blame. Am pleased most people don't think I'm a monster cause my dog cried once

 

[paddy555]

My dogs have free range, they don't sleep on the bed, but they can sleep in any of 5 beds around the place or the sofas etc. Sometimes they sleep in the beds in our bedroom, sometimes they don't, they have choice and settle really well. There is no bin raiding at night, they are lurchers they like their sleep If one needs a middle of the night wee they can come and tell me.

mine sleeps by the bed but also has free access to everywhere. He causes no trouble at all with this, doesn't damage anything.

At night his job is to alert me to anyone outside and to exactly where they are. He could not do this if he was shut in one room.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Swings and roundabouts, I don't think it's fair to expect a dog to be in a state of alert on my behalf, sleep is important for dogs too, like the OP, who wants her dog to relax and go to sleep at the required time and seems to be implementing that well

 

[druid]

I feel like the let the dog sleep in the bedroom don't own multiples...not sure where I'd fit 13 dogs in the bedroom I do have one who sleeps on the bed, aptly called the princess for a reason

AP sounds like you've found a solution that works for you, good job - do you think Fodhla might be feeding a little off your stress/mood and playing up/acting differently? I know training sessions never seem to go as well if I've had a tough day at work or home.

 

[skinnydipper]

I feel like the let the dog sleep in the bedroom don't own multiples

I had 8, 9 at one point. They didn't all choose to sleep in the bedroom.

Two preferred to sleep downstairs. One of those suffered from grand mal epilepsy with prolonged seizures which needed rectal diazepam, there were no closed doors so I could hear her when she started to fit and sometimes she would come and let me know she was going to fit.


Apologies, AP.

 

[paddy555]

Swings and roundabouts, I don't think it's fair to expect a dog to be in a state of alert on my behalf, sleep is important for dogs too, like the OP, who wants her dog to relax and go to sleep at the required time and seems to be implementing that well

how do you propose that I stop a GSD listening for what is going on? Even when he is asleep he listens. Other than earplugs, drugs or a soundproof room I'm a bit lost.

If your dogs are fast asleep and someone was to walk up to your door would they just carry on snoring? I've never had a dog either GSD or Collie who wouldn't have been up there to investigate immediately of their own accord.

 

[CorvusCorax]

how do you propose that I stop a GSD listening for what is going on? Even when he is asleep he listens. Other than earplugs, drugs or a soundproof room I'm a bit lost.

If your dogs are fast asleep and someone was to walk up to your door would they just carry on snoring? I've never had a dog either GSD or Collie who wouldn't have been up there to investigate immediately of their own accord.

Well one is as deaf as a post, the other does bark if she hears someone around the house but she's yet to wake me up at night to do so. As it's usually the postwoman, window cleaner, gardener or neighbour/landlord, I'm conscious that it's important to keep everyone safe. If I wanted a deterrent I'd have an alarm or CCTV or something. I live in a very small bungalow so it's not as if I'm sleeping very far away from them.

 

[paddy555]

Well one is as deaf as a post, the other does bark if she hears someone around the house but she's yet to wake me up at night to do so. As it's usually the postwoman, window cleaner, gardener or neighbour/landlord, I'm conscious that it's important to keep everyone safe. If I wanted a deterrent I'd have an alarm or CCTV or something. I live in a very small bungalow so it's not as if I'm sleeping very far away from them.

no good for us, alarms would be constantly triggered by movement and I would never get to sleep and CCTV is no use except after the event. I need to know immediately if someone is outside, no one should be and safety is vital.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Sounds way too stressful for me, but horses for courses!

 

[paddy555]

but horses for courses!

absolutely. His job to make sure they are OK so I don't have to worry.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We went to stay with relatives for a few days, the 3 dogs came with us. Their dogs are used to having the run of the bungalow, ours are used to sleeping in crates, which we didn't take with us, in the living room. Our dogs spent the 1st night trailing from room to room, deciding who to spend time with, led by the yellow one, who always likes to share herself out. Thank goodness she decided to spend the next night in the living room with the dog who usually sleeps there and everybody slept better.

 

[paddy555]

We went to stay with relatives for a few days, the 3 dogs came with us. Their dogs are used to having the run of the bungalow, ours are used to sleeping in crates, which we didn't take with us, in the living room. Our dogs spent the 1st night trailing from room to room, deciding who to spend time with, led by the yellow one, who always likes to share herself out. Thank goodness she decided to spend the next night in the living room with the dog who usually sleeps there and everybody slept better.

Presumably if their dogs were used to having free run they were used to that way of living. If yours were crated they simply were not accustomed to that.

As a matter of interest why do you crate them overnight? if they are house dogs surely they have the run of the house in the day so why not at night or at least loose in the living room.. Just curious as to why people crate overnight.

Afraid I hate to see dogs crated overnight. (unless one was in a hotel room etc)

 

[Rowreach]

no good for us, alarms would be constantly triggered by movement and I would never get to sleep and CCTV is no use except after the event. I need to know immediately if someone is outside, no one should be and safety is vital.

Good grief, who are you expecting to attack you in your bed at night?

 

[skinnydipper]

Should we start another thread because I would like to know why dogs who can be trusted to sleep anywhere in the house would start helping themselves to snacks from the worktops?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Should we start another thread because I would like to know why dogs who can be trusted to sleep anywhere in the house would start helping themselves to snacks from the worktops?

There have been umpteen threads and debates about crating dogs at night over the years. The people who don't are correct and the people who do are wrong and cruel, lol.

Separately, I still await offers from all the amazing trainers who can overcome genetics remotely and will pay my landlords if they can't, they always seem to vanish when offered a challenge!

I'm afraid I hate seeing dogs expected to live on a hair trigger, always perceiving threats, real or imagined. It's a huge mental burden for them to carry and is a huge contributing factor to unwarranted reactivity.
My neighbour came round the back of the house to ask to borrow a fiver for electric this morning, I was checking over my male on the back doorstep, who didn't bat an eyelid because there was no threat, it was just the neighbour standing there chatting, the female was in her run and went ballistic, but I'm glad she wasn't 'free roaming' to do anything stupid with someone doing no harm.

Also, if I wanted to listen to burping, farting and scratching right next to me at night, I'd find a man

 

[skinnydipper]

I was referring to this

Those if you who let your dogs sleep wherever they choose, do they also help themselves to counter snacks is if they are peckish?

Tbh I thought the entire post was ridiculous.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I admit it's also a bit ridiculous trying to compare two situations where some people are living in a small rental property in an urban area with high traffic and others are living in a big house on a yard in the middle of nowhere

 

[ArklePig]

I'm not sure I'd want to rely on this protecting me at night in my quiet suburban cul de sac.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

no good for us, alarms would be constantly triggered by movement and I would never get to sleep and CCTV is no use except after the event. I need to know immediately if someone is outside, no one should be and safety is vital.

An alarm on night mode will only be triggered if someone tries to enter from outside any movement in the house won't set it off.

 

[paddy555]

An alarm on night mode will only be triggered if someone tries to enter from outside any movement in the house won't set it off.

no, but constant movement of the horses around the house will keep setting it off.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

no, but constant movement of the horses around the house will keep setting it off.

It won't it's only if someone goes through a door or window and triggers a censor, we live in a bungalow surrounded by wildlife deers have been our drive and its never triggered an alarm.