Dr riders wearing protective hats...

PS please relax, there is no need for (hypothetical) swear words. Take it as a compliment that these people care enough they are trying to convey to you what they have experienced so you can avoid the resultant pain (emotional & physical). The way I read them, what they are saying is that accidents (ie events deemed unlikely in terms of risk assessment) do happen, reguarly & unpredictably. It only takes one of these accidents to ruin a life no matter how many times they have ridden with no problem.

I said before, MHO is what you do on private property is your own business. I personally wear a hat, even on private land. I do believe as son as you go into the public domain where your actions can impact on other peoples lives, it becomes your responsibility to wear a hat, no matter what age.

I am over my ideal weight & take full responsibility for it for the amount of exercise I do, it would indicate I have consumed too many calories, else I would be skiny. I didn't especially care for your analogy as I fail to see how I am causing anyone pain or how they have to care for me because of my choices, I am self-sufficient, functioning, working member of the community. Not trying to twist the meaning of your words in any way.
 
For the most part, I ignore what other people decide to do, as reards hi-viz and hats. There are a couple of people who give me the benefit of their humour and wit with regard to my looking like a Christmas tree, hacking out - but then they get my comment about prefering to be seen rather than splattered on the bonnet of a car. Each to their own...

But recently, one of the young girls at our yard has taken to riding in the school without a hat on. I have fetched her hat for her - and I have also told her that it is the only yard rule that the YO gets very upset about not being adhered to.

Then I went home and told my husband, who got very upset and sent the youngster in question a private message on Facebook. He had never told me about having to spoon feed his friend after a hatless riding accident.

The next time he saw the young lady in question, up at the yard, she simply gave him a big hug and nothing more was said.

She now rides in her hat again.
 
I hunt in a Patey.

I always wear the highest level of hat to do everything else in - a PROtector. I have to hack along a lane to get to the school, so hat goes on and stays on. When I didn't have to hack to the school I would often ride without one in the summer especially.

The most serious accident I have ever had was when my horse and I somersaulted at a gallop. I was wearing a fixed peak hat, freakily, as I was taking an 11 year old out riding with me - normally I didn't wear a hat as it isn't the norm in Spain at all. I came round with the hat having come off over the back of my head and the harness was throttling me. The person that found me couldn't undo it immediately and it was very serious. I was incredibly concussed, could well have been kicked in the head by the horse, so the hat saved and nearly killed me all in one....just food for thought there.

Recently I was hacking and the ground gave way under my horse and we both hit the deck - I didn't hit my head, but it is an example of things happening beyond your control.

I would never, ever condemn anyone for riding without a hat, unless they are doing on the road - that is a COMPLETE no-no for me.
 
cloudandmatrix said:
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone can tell me any advantages, or reasons to ride without a hat, instead of just wearing one?
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In Spain it was mostly to do with the heat. However, I appreciate that hat technology has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years and there is no reason to use heat as a reason not to wear a hat these days.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
anyone who smokes, drink, sunbathes or is overweight through overeating,is taking as much of a calculated risk, if not more,and is putting as much of an alleged strain on the NHS.
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The point about all those activity is that they require a SUSTAINED period of usage in order to cause harm. People who smoke, eat and drink enough to cause themselves harm and cost the NHS money do so for years and years. Their decision making is consistent and they have many opportunities to stop what they are doing before it harms them.

However, a riding accident need happen only once. A smoker once said to me in clinic that he was annoyed that his lungs were shot but that he had enjoyed every cigarette and he was now paying the price. If you have an accident, can you say you enjoyed your ride any more because you didn't wear a hat?

And you'd be surprised about the cost of neurological care, rehab, carers etc. Smokers, drinkers and fatties - they are older mostly. You are young. If you are injured tomorrow, you may live to be 70.

50 years x 365 days a year = 18250 days
Cost of full-time care per day = £150
Cost of care over a lifetime = £2.7 million

Plus initial care costs - £1 million, for surgery, the cost of a neuro-ITU bed, medications, physio, rehabilitation

Ongoing care costs - including pressure sores (seriously expensive and difficult to treat, require silver impregnated dressing, daily district nurse visits), chest infections, urinary tract infections from an indwelling catheter.

Plus the modifications to your home so that you could be fed, moved (eg. hoist), washing facilities.

The cost of one single person having a brain injury can and does run into tens of millions. With relatively little improvement to show for it, by and large - these patients don't usually return to their previous function.

You might think I'm going on (and I am) but the point is that once you've SEEN this for yourself, whether through work or through someone else having to go through this, I'd be totally amazed if you felt you could take that risk.
 
You can add me to the group of people who's horses have dropped from underneath them whilst riding on a good surface.

One minute I was cantering on my agile and surefooted horse, the next he had done the splits with his front legs and my face was inches from the floor. I made a split second decision to roll off to allow him to get up, but as he scrambled to his feet he trod on my head several times. Thankfully I was wearing a hat and I only had a graze to my face and had to buy a new hat. He was fine and never did anything like that again. It makes me sick just thinking of the what ifs, if I hadn't been wearing a hat.

On another note, I've also spent a month beside my OH in hospital and then a month when he went to rehab after having a brain injury (not horse related) and can confirm what a truly awful and upsetting experience it was.

Without sounding patronising, you only get one brain. Your brain makes you who you are. It's hard to describe but it's only when you watch someone you know and love become almost unrecognisable apart from the 'shell' on the outside due to a small amount of brain damage, that you realise how precious your brain is. The first night in hospital I kept thinking of all the times I've had a fall from a horse, whilst wearing a hat, and how I've been saved from any horrible injury, and how lucky I've been.

I've worked at a top showjumping yard for a few years, where nobody wore a hat apart from me. Yes I was the odd one out, but I didn't care. I'm not one to cave in to peer pressure or trying to be 'fashionable'.

I admit i have schooled a couple of horses in an arena at home, a fair few years ago and prior to head treading experience, on a scorching hot summers day without a hat.

Would I do it now? No.

As so many have said already, accidents can happen to anyone, thats the risk we all take when we get out of bed everyday, let alone get on a horse.

Since my experience with my OH, I value my life hugely. My head and the small amount of brain cells inside it are very precious to me and I will do what it takes to preserve them. I will always ride in a hat, that is my personal opinion.
 
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A lot of things we do in life involves calculating the risks involved - for example I know it is not great for me to drink alcohol, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me. To me riding without a hat just seems like too little pleasure compared to the gain - and with the huge negative impact of a possible accident just doesn't seem comparable to something as simple as just putting a hat on.

If it was a real benefit to ride without a hat - like if it would make me a better rider by 100x or make me more likely to win the lottery, then there could be an argument for it and a risk worth taking - but there is just nothing... just slightly less hat-hair...
 
'how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)'
Twice. And I'm an experienced eventing rider.
Once just trotting across a diagonal, fired off in front of horse, no damage done, say hatless adn closer to the corner? (just as likely a scenario, not far fetched), could have been into corner fence post.
Second time, trotting along long side, horse went down, me straight over his shoulder. All he had to do was do it opposite side of the school and I would have been trapped between him and a solid concrete wall, not pleasant thinking about.
Both of these would be what you would consider solid bombproof horses, suitable for kids to ride if required.
I haven't fallen off current horse bar one fluke time, eventing. I wear a hat everytime I ride. It's alien to me not to ride without a hat and if you wear one everytime, it gets like that
Totally bombproof, never rears bucks or bolts, ever. Saint. As are the rest of the current bunch. I wouldn't get on a motorbike without a helmet either.
 
I have to admit that I do feel that PS is getting a hard time, although there doesn't seem to be anyone else standing up for the hatless so I think that hatless riders are very much a minority now.

My takings from the thread are:

Its nice to see dressage riders are beginning to wear hats, and other disciplines like western will probably follow suit soon

Top hats will soon be a thing of the past unless a company makes a PAS standard one.

There are many times horses have fallen for no reason - more responses than I would have expected

what people do in their own property is their choice

research has shown that riding is a dangerous sport! :)

I will always wear a hat when riding - food for thought regarding loading/clipping

I wouldn't like to wear a body protector for everything so that is also food for thought as its another safety measure

Don't go against people on the HHO forum as you'll get beaten into submission!!! (joke) :D
 
Weezy (and others-just havent seen any others post about being hatless w/ kids). You have kids-yes?
You would have them grow up without you because you fancied feeling the wind in your hair as you rode?
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned - but what about insurance? If you sustained head injury that could have been prevented if you were wearing a hat, would they still pay out as happily?

(Sorry if everyone else knows the answer to this, it is actually something I have never considered since I wear a hat)
 
little_flea said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned - but what about insurance? If you sustained head injury that could have been prevented if you were wearing a hat, would they still pay out as happily?

(Sorry if everyone else knows the answer to this, it is actually something I have never considered since I wear a hat)
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I wondered this too.

Surely in an age where insurance companies will try and find the smallest excuse to weasel out of paying out for a claim, if they knew you were riding without a hat I'd be surprised if they would pay. Especially if it was a personal accident claim.
 
just found this from last years H&H....

Q: In the light of Courtney King-Dye's accident, I double-checked my insurance to see what would happen in the event of a serious fall.

Is it correct that some cover — including private health insurance, personal injury insurance and possibly mortgage cover and life insurance — could be void if riders are not wearing good protective headwear and their lack of a hat is a contributory factor to their injury?

KW Lincs

The benefit from some insurance policies may be affected if a lack of protective headgear is considered to be a contributory factor to a person's injury.

According to David Buckton, associate director of South Essex Insurance Brokers (SEIB), there are a couple of points to keep in mind regarding protective headgear.

"Some policies — private health, travel, accident, mortgage protection, life insurances and so on — will not cover dangerous sporting activities," he said.

"Companies differ in their attitude to horse riding — some regard it as a dangerous activity. It is therefore important always to check that a policy does not exclude the particular riding activity or discipline being undertaken."

This is often overlooked on holidays, so if you are planning to ride a horse when abroad, make sure your travel insurance covers you.

"As far as the hat issue is concerned, we all have a general duty to take reasonable care of ourselves," David added. "Not wearing a riding helmet and then sustaining a head injury may not necessarily invalidate an insurance policy, unless there is a specific policy condition requiring a hard hat.

"However, if the lack of protective headgear is a contributory factor, then any benefit is likely to be reduced. Remember also that not all accidents involving horses come from falling off; many of the most serious injuries happen on the ground while handling them."

Information

SEIB, tel: 01708 850000 www.seib.co.uk

This article was first published in Horse & Hound (22 April, '10)
 
I can get access to a huge range of scientific journals as a student so thought i'd provide an insight into some of the research thats been done on the subject.
(Chitnavis et al.)
There has been a marked fall (46 per cent) in the total number of admissions due to horse-related injuries compared with 20 years ago. This has been achieved despite an estimated 5 per cent per year increase in the number of people riding. The drop in serious injuries is mainly explained by a significant fall in head injury admissions. The associated decrease in the number of skull fractures might be related to the increased use of improved riding helmets, especially since injuries to other body regions has not diminished. *Young amateur female riders remain the most frequently injured group*.
(Worley, 2010):
Each horse has its own personal set of stimuli that may cause it to spook or react unpredictably. These stressors may include loud noises, unfamiliar objects, animals, humans, traffic, plants, and unseen/imaginary objects. Reactions of this type can be overcome to a great extent by proper training of the horse, but they can never be completely eliminated (no matter how 'bombproof' you believe your horse to be).
(Ball et al., 2006): The hospital admission rate associated with equestrian activity is 49/1000 hours of riding. The rate when motorcycle riding is merely 14/1000 hours. As a result of this potential for injury, horseback riding has been identified as a higher-risk activity than automobile racing, motorcycle riding, football, and skiing, and at least as dangerous as rugby. Equestrian riding also is considered to have the highest mortality of all sports, with an annual death rate of 1 per 1 million population. This reality is not surprising because a horse weighs up to 500 kg, moves at a speed of 65 km/h, elevates the rider 3 meters above the ground, and kicks with a force of nearly 1 ton.

So food for thought, seems a bit prehistoric not to wear a helmet but that's not my remit and to each their own.
 
ArcticFox said:
Don't go against people on the HHO forum as you'll get beaten into submission!!! (joke) :D
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But with more than a grain of truth! Poor PS, taking the heat for the entire Hatless Dressage fraternity! :eek: :D

Reading this thread has brought something home to me though. My Brother died when I was 17 and I saw what it did to my Parents. I hope that I never cause them that kind of stress, but can't live my life not taking any risks. What I can do is minimise the risk where ever possible, and that means Hat on bonce at all times when hooves may fly in my direction!
 
SusieT said:
Weezy (and others-just havent seen any others post about being hatless w/ kids). You have kids-yes?
You would have them grow up without you because you fancied feeling the wind in your hair as you rode?
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Yes I do have children. And no, the thought of them growing up without me is horrible. However, that could happen because I got cancer, or I was run over, or had a car accident, or I was shot by a marauding gun man...

However, I cannot even tell you the last time I rode without a hat...I lie, it was last summer for about 2 mins when I jumped on a 14.2hh pony to show his rider how to push him into a contact.

I would be lying if I said I never thought about having an accident out hunting when wearing my Patey, because I have. And yes, I am 100% it seems utterly ridiculous that I wear a helmet that is PAS standard to plod around, SJ and school, but I wear a Patey to go galloping and jumping. I will hold my hands up, it is vanity, it must be, as I am very H&S conscious the rest of the time. HOWEVER, if you look at the hats we all used to wear, or not, they were made of a thin layer of cork, some fibreglass and velvet....just because they had a chin strap, usually made of elastic, they were not safer than a Patey. I would deffo say that my Patey is safer than a lot of hats readers of this forum are wearing - because most people wear old or misfitting hats that will not protect them if they fall.

Apart from one other, who is a member on here, I am the only person I know at my yard who rides everyday in a hat that is up to standard security wise - most everyone I know rides in a hat that is over 3 years old and that, to me, is very dangerous.

Confused?!
 
i've seen the effect on parents of their children dying, too. 2 years after leaving school, a few of my year were killed in various, separate, accidents. it BROKE their parents, particularly the mums. the grief, even years later, was palpable.
my mum had to see me in the ICU once. it didn't do her much good... :( :( :( not a head injury fwiw, and yes, i was wearing a hat.
i woke up in hospital another time, after severe concussion when a pony flipped over backwards with me. was wearing a good hat, luckily.
reasons not to wear a hat?
ummm. it's cooler - but, the new vented hats are supposed to be very good. not tried one yet personally.
it's 'cool' - you look more glamorous, more recognisable. hmm. unconscious and drooling out of the side of your mouth in the ICU... not so cool, by comparison.
you don't get 'hat hair'. hey, it's a badge of honour, isn't it? ;) ;)

anomaly, those are very interesting statistics, thankyou.
reminds me of the one about the number of soldiers admitted with head injuries rising significantly after the army started issuing helmets. contradictory? no... think about it...
 
 
To me, wearing a Patey is as good as nothing.
You take steps in your life to reduce risk, that a mother is willing to say, actually, I would rather look a certain way than reduce the risk is shocking to me.
Why does other peoples hats possibly (very much possibly.. as you have no idea whether it is or not) being more dangerous than yours somehow make your hat ok?
Great that yuo ride in a good hat most of the time, very odd as to why you do that and don't ride in a patey all the time then??
 
Just to toss another point for consideration into the debate (and yes, I am very much playing devils advocate)...

I HAVE had a fall where wearing a hat very nearly broke my neck - had it been a fixed peak hat then that would have almost certainly been the outcome. I got seriously decked, headfirst into the ground, off a 12hh neckless pony who was 100% determined I was coming off by all means necessary. I landed on my forehead, face down, with my neck completely hyper-extended to the extent that my feet were on the ground in front of my head. My head had "fixed" in position by the brim of my hat and the downward force of the weight of my head and according to my friend who witnessed the whole thing I was very lucky that before I hit the ground my very slippy/shiny/slightly-too-big hat silk had slipped down and forward and provided just enough "slip" that it enabled my head to ping back the right way seconds after hitting the ground.

Fortunately I walked away with a seriously bad whiplash and still think it was one of the scariest moments of my life, lying on the floor absolutely convinced my neck was about to break and I was going to be left paralysed or worse had I broken my dens..... Had I been wearing a fixed peak then there is no way my neck position would have corrected and resulting force placed on my neck would have almost certainly resulted in reversible spinal damage or worse.

So while in 99.9% of incidences the argument of "a hat can do no harm but it may save your life" may be considered valid there will still be the occasional incidence where it will not. Incidently, if I ever get on anything which I fear is likely to launch me headfirst into the ground or when I am jumping I will NEVER wear a fixed peak hat and always have a relatively loose or slippy silk on. My fixed peak velvet it reserved strictly for the dressage arena...
 
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its slightly ironic that after reading all that i have a headache :o

my view on it is that its up to the individual. personally i always wear a hat to ride in- but then i am a complete clutz generally (nearly broke 2x ankles this morning going to work :rolleyes:) and my horse is super sharp and spooky so get dumped a fair bit by him- you'd be mental to ride him without a hat :p I broke my hat last year getting bucked off onto concrete and landing headfirst- i had a banging headache for 2 weeks, was convinced that i had brain damage but the hospital wouldn't scan it :confused:

But...i never wear a hat to do other things e.g. clipping, loading, turning out etc and TBH am probably just as likely to get a boot in the head doing this as i am to fall off and hit my head.

yes there is the argument that if you fall off and die etc....but i am sure that hatless people know this but it is a risk they choose to take... same way that i don't wear a BP to show jump- its a risk i am prepared to take...
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
certainly more horses dropping for no reason than i thought, that i will admit.


ill ask again -where does it end? law to wear hats whilst clipping?loading?turning out?bringing in?grooming? have seen/heard about far more accidents/injuries caused by the first two than by hatless flatowork, and i refuse to believe that every single person on this thread wears a hat for clipping and loading!
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i can only imagine how well calling a larger person stupid would go down! :D :D :D lol

I don't wear a hat for clipping (?) or loading? Certainly wouldn't load 'my own' horse wearing a hat, how strange lol :)
Now I have been know to forget I've got my hat on, drive my car home via the shop for milk :eek:
It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!! :D

Now I will be blasted by all the horsey high vis gearers (sorry :))
It's all about 'personal' choice :)
 
diggerbez said:
its slightly ironic that after reading all that i have a headache :o

But...i never wear a hat to do other things e.g. clipping, loading, turning out etc and TBH am probably just as likely to get a boot in the head doing this as i am to fall off and hit my head.

QUOTE]

I think we are more likely to get broken feet than a boot in the head :) and do we all wear steel toe caps!!! NO!! I've been known to trot down the path with my horse in tow, with some Jack Wills Flip Flops, now thats safety wear!! lol :D
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janey said:
It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!! :D

Now I will be blasted by all the horsey high vis gearers (sorry :))
It's all about 'personal' choice :)
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It certainly is personal choice, but you see not wearing High Viz when riding on the road because it is yuck is, to me, totally stupid! Cars are high speed killing objects, and if you can give yourself and your horse an extra 3 seconds to be seen, then hell, it is worth looking silly for, and only fair on the poor motorist who may come around a corner and slam into you because you are in the shadows. As a car driver who lives in a rural area, it is scary how invisible horses and riders can be riding along leafy lanes.

SusieT - others' hats do not have any bearing on my choices, I was merely pointing out that no one ever has a problem with seeing someone wearing a hat, when the hat in question may be 20 years old, been dropped 20 times and doesn't fit the rider....but it is OK as they have a hat on.

The Patey issue is not one that sits brilliantly with me, as I said. And I questioned whether it was vanity as I couldn't give you another, immediate answer. Having slept on it I realise I should have put the word tradition in there too. I wouldn't advocate that people wear Patey hats, absolutely not, but it IS what I do, and I do risk assess and have been known to go out with a skull hat firmly on my head instead.

So there you go, as I said before - confused?! I am, but I ride maybe 10 times a year in my Patey, and the rest of the time in a PAS helmet.
 
janey said:
It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!! :D
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I used to think this! My mum used to make me wear it all the time even when it was sunny and she used to make me wear hi vis that doesnt match !!!! :O or putting a pink breastplate on when i was wearing a red coat, sorry thats just wrong :P

BUT I have been recently doing my ride and road safety and I got a book about it to learn and just in the front cover is the 2 most disturibing pictures I have ever seen. 2 photos of horses splat on the road and cars wrecked. I wear Hi-Vis for my horse as well as myself because I would be devestated if a car was to run over my horse! they just mean too much to me!
But I dont let my mum put mismatching hi vis on anymore! lol I have a yellow set and a seperate pink set and need to get a orange set now :P

Oh and back onto the hat debate. I do equine sports science to which one of the modules is behaviour. I think we forget sometimes that we are sitting on a wild animal with its OWN brain. We are never going to be able to "make" the horse do something it doesnt want to do or be able to tell what the horse is going to do at all times. Its just like people, every now and again someone you know well does something you wouldnt of expected them to do. That is why there are quite a few non-horsey people that refuse to ride or think we are stupid for horse riding because getting on a horse is a risk every time. no matter if you have owned the horse for 1 year or 20 years theres always going to be a risk. Granted on a horse you have owned 20 years and has never done anything, the risk is going to be significantly lower than one you have owned just one year but it is still there.

I think arguing over this is funny though. Its like each hat wearing person wants to bring up the one argument that will break a non-hat wearing person into wearing a hat at all times. I dont think hat wearers are doing it out of spite or anything, I think its more like a competition.... who can get a non-hat wearer to finally say they will wear a hat and that they are wrong is the winner. its like it in all arguments you have with ur fam or something. its gonna keep going until somebody admits they are wrong. Dont think its gonna happen though, especially on a internet forum where nobody really knows each other....
 
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