Mule
Well-Known Member
Or if the western horses were taking rein contact would they stretch down to meet the riders hands like in a free walk or stretchy trot?
I don't have an axe to grind on either side, but I think you have to look at both ends of the reins to assess the quality of the contact.
You don't often see tense or open mouths against her hand. I don't have a problem with a secure contact, I would have a problem with the absence of one or a tooth-grinding gobbing mouth I think few riders are as secure in their core as Charlotte and that can make her look forced sometimes by comparison.
I see contact as the horse and rider being engaged in conversation... not necessarily as a physical bit to hand thing.
No contact means they are not talking because they haven't realised you are there. Light contact is a mutually respectful conversation. A heavy contact... they aren't talking because you are shouting over them and, in some cases, have gagged them as well.
A loop in the reins and the horse in self carriage is desirable to me, something to work towards and aspire to. You can have contact and connection with a loop in the reins. But you have to work up to it...
It's late, I've had whisky, I don't know what I'm talking about... I plobble around a sandschool in the far north of Scotland on my Irish bog horse and think noble thoughts about connection. :lol:
The so-called French school is actually the original way of training horses (dressage is a French word, which means "training"), the German way is much later and based on the campaign method. The purest dressage, in my opinion is still found in Spain and Portugal. I know which style I prefer (and I have done both to FEI level). If I was still interested in competing I'd have to do a bit of "German" to gain top marks, but for my own conscience, pleasure, interest and sensibilities I am happy to ride Alta Escuela and Doma Vaquera, or try my very best at least.
In the wise words of one of my riding masters in Spain: "doma es doma" or "training is training", which means good training works, no matter what you call it, and the principles are the same.
I think there's really no such thing as 'no contact' as long as you have reins. The horse can feel a fly land on it, it's well able to know if you have moved your hands on the reins even if the reins are in loops. You're still communicating with the horse, just in a different language.
You are right; there is no such thing as no contact, nor is it desirable. <<<See my profile pic over there? That horse came to me as unrideable with the most traumatised mouth I've ever seen (massive scar tissue and now melanomas in the mouth): you CANNOT take a contact with him, but if you so much as whisper on the rein he knows and follows. I adore riding him because I HAVE to ride at the top of my game, with everything except the hand involved, and this translates and benefits every other horse I have ridden since.
I see contact as the horse and rider being engaged in conversation... not necessarily as a physical bit to hand thing.
No contact means they are not talking because they haven't realised you are there. Light contact is a mutually respectful conversation. A heavy contact... they aren't talking because you are shouting over them and, in some cases, have gagged them as well.
A loop in the reins and the horse in self carriage is desirable to me, something to work towards and aspire to. You can have contact and connection with a loop in the reins. But you have to work up to it...
It's late, I've had whisky, I don't know what I'm talking about... I plobble around a sandschool in the far north of Scotland on my Irish bog horse and think noble thoughts about connection. :lol:
I don't get why it would be wrong to have no contact if the horse is balanced and doing the movements. Except that it doesn't meet some arbitrary rule that you need to meet to win competitions. In some tests I've watched recently of Fuego he is doing piaffe or one time changes with the reins in loops.
Here is my issue.
Does she sacrifice balance for forwardness? In the eyes of a dressage judge what would they rather see? A slower more balanced routine or a forward going pony but a little less balanced.??? The problem with changing to this way means she will loose out on some pace?
Thanks for reading.
Another thing I find with dressage is everyone talks the talk, the horse should reach for the contact etc, but some of these same people saw on the reins and hold the horse in a frame.
A problem imo is how some authors make dressage out to be mysterious and really complicated in their descriptions, when it's not mystical, it's training.
Yep. I've had lessons with a couple of trainers where I didn't understand half of what they were gabbling on about - they would talk philosophically while I trotted around aimlessly, and 5 minutes later I would still be none the wiser as to what they actually wanted me to do. They were clearly very competent riders but I don't believe for a second that they had all the philosophising going on actively in their head while they were riding.
Sorry, we lost some.I felt I benefitted from doing some western.Of course, there are good trainers and bad but the style is all softness and lightness but responsiveness as well.ut in front of the leg as well.
philosify, can`t be bothered to spell it right, must seem like a daunting word to a pupil wanting to strip away the undergrowth and see the simple truth, that most horses can show us.
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