Dunne v Frost

[Elf On A Shelf]

Not forgetting of course Tom Scu and the hmmm ...... significance with the 'nod nod wink wink anti Bryony, we know our stuff ', ..........
trying to look good, where the Scu's are concerned. Tom Scu should be supporting Bryony, how 2 faced is he !

Mate I left my house at 5.30am yesterday morning, trucked to Newcastle for a runner then carried on to Doncaster overnight for a runner today. I have literally just walked back in my door. I will be up again at 5.30am tomorrow morning before heading to Wolverhampton for a runner at 7.45pm and won't be home til the best part of 3am. I will catch up with this thread and the story when I have 5 minutes too. Right now I am going to find my dinner, have a shower and go to bed! I am only here just now because I was alerted to this comment.

We can't all spend all of our days sitting on the Internet.

 

[Rowreach]

He has lost his race riding, he can still ride out at trainers so I dispute that he's lost his job.

Yeah exactly, he hasn't been warned off or anything. Or indeed faced criminal charges. And the only person to blame for him getting banned from racing for a bit is Dunne himself. Not Bryony, not the inquiry, not the media.

 

[Tihamandturkey]

No way do I believe he was triggered into his despicable behaviour because she is a better jock. Nope, he is fairly second rung at best. He would be bullying a lot of folks if he was put out by those who are better than him.

So the reason you come up with is that he fancied her & she didn't fancy him & was joking with other jocks hence he was jealous - misogynistic much?

 

[Goldenstar]

I posted it for the sake of balance to demonstrate Bryony Frost's story does not reflect the experience of all female jockeys, in fact quite the contrary.

It’s more than a story she has proved her case .

Those poor male jockeys are all terribly upset at having their culture called 'rancid'. What a terrible insult.

Whereas calling someone a f****** sl**, a f****** w**** and a c*** - that's just banter!

The male jockeys and in particular the PJA seem to be in an echo chamber with voices from the 1950s still reverberating.

I think think it’s not the same as the 50’s in the fifties the patriarchy was still strong this meant that in most cases woman where treated very differently to today .
Unequal for sure but there was in most cases woman where protected by old fashioned manners .
It’s very different to the toxic misogyny on show in many places today .

 

[splashgirl45]

There are many many jockeys who rarely ride in your Saturday TV racesl, it doesn't make their opinion of weigh room culture any less valuable.
How dare you say 'she's not worth listening too' that is an absolutely outrageous statement and says a lot about you as a person! She is just as entitled to opinion as you and she actually has first hand experience of the weighing room unlike yourself.

she had 4 rides in 2021 and no wins, she is no threat to the male jockeys where frost is

 

[minesadouble]

she had 4 rides in 2021 and no wins, she is no threat to the male jockeys where frost is

That does not render her sentiment 'not worth listening to'.
I don't consider Frost a 'threat' to the male jockeys at all either, if that were the reason behind Dunne's actions why didn't behave similarly towards Rachael Blackmore who is a way more successful rider than Frost?

 

[Merry neddy man]

Possibly because she's Irish.

 

[patseyr]

Fair Play to Bryony Frost, she has taken a stand that that will hopefully improve the welfare of female riders in the future. She could have very easily taken the abuse and given up, how many times has that happened before?
I hope this will not adversly affect her career, however I feel it may have.

She may have changed the face of the sport for the better and this may allow more female jockeys to enter the sport.
Thank you Bryony

 

[Goldenstar]

That does not render her sentiment 'not worth listening to'.
I don't consider Frost a 'threat' to the male jockeys at all either, if that were the reason behind Dunne's actions why didn't behave similarly towards Rachael Blackmore who is a way more successful rider than Frost?

Who knows it’s not relevant , what matters is that BF has been vindicated by the process .
I don’t know much about BF but I am amazed that any one is surprised that One person has had an issue and others have not .
That’s how bullies work they don’t bully everyone they pick on one or a few, part of whole process is separating the chosen victims and seeking to make them other and separate them from the group , while seeking to undermine their self worth and confidence
It makes me very annoyed when people say why did A not get bullied then and seek to put the blame on the person on the receiving end of the unacceptable behaviour that’s just plain wrong .
It does not matter a jot if BF is an abrasive individual ( I have no idea, non ) nothing excuses indulging in misogynistic bullying with strong intones of sexual violence in the workplace tbh in my view he lucky he’s not been charged with a criminal offence
People are protected in law from that sort of treatment .
Also the fact that few have spoken up for me shows how toxic and dangerous the working environment on the racecourse can be for all jockeys not just woman and how much people keep their heads down .
This is a tip of the iceberg situation .
I suspect the we now see a look we have dealt with it narrative they have not they may have cut one head off the snake it will have others .

 

[ycbm]

Women win medals at Olympic eventing every time. Women ride race horse exercise daily. There is a reason there are not more women jockeys over a fifth of the way through the 21st century and it's got nothing to do with them being women.
.

 

[ycbm]

I don't consider Frost a 'threat' to the male jockeys at all either, if that were the reason behind Dunne's actions why didn't behave similarly towards Rachael Blackmore who is a way more successful rider than Frost?

I refer you back to my post and the blog post by a female trainer/ex jockey, that people who are in toxic families often don't even realise it until they leave it behind.

Can you answer the question I asked that was raised by the tweet you quoted? If it is senior jockeys telling younger jockeys how to behave what happens when the problem is a senior jockey?



ETA I think I'm probably known on this forum for believing that it is often too hard on men, but I am shocked at the women who think Dunne has been treated unfairly.
.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Women win medals at Olympic eventing every time. Women ride race horse exercise daily. There is a reason there are not more women jockeys over a fifth of the way through the 21st century and it's got nothing to do with them being women.
.

For balance....
There are more women jockeys at top level than there is in motorsport (cars: from touring, formula to F1 etc, and same in BSB, WSB and Moto GP).
More female jockeys than in PGA too.
It's not just horse racing.

 

[ycbm]

For balance....
There are more women jockeys at top level than there is in motorsport (cars: from touring, formula to F1 etc, and same in BSB, WSB and Moto GP).
More female jockeys than in PGA too.
It's not just horse racing.

I'm not saying those sports don't have issues, they probably do. I'm also not sure that "these sports are just as bad" is balance rather than extra weight to one side. I would be surprised if the proportion of women capable of the sheer physical effort of winning an F1 race equalled the proportion of men who can do it. In golf, women play off a different tee than men, and there are a large number of top women's competitions. There is a reason why we have sex/ gender categories in sport.

But horse riding is overwhelmingly a female dominated sport. I understand, though I haven't looked it up, that the proportion of female staff looking after and riding the horses at home is very high (higher than male)? There's just no excuse for there to be so few women jockeys, and so few being offered rides on horses capable of winning.
.

 

[Merry neddy man]

I think it will be interesting to watch ITV racings " the opening show" 0n ITV4 channel 24 at 9:30 this morning (Saturday) to see their thoughts on the verdict and how racing may differ in the future.

 

[Goldenstar]

Very few woman would be strong enough to drive an F1 car it’s really out there in terms of physical strength .
It’s how ever not relevant because the issue here is treatment of a professional jockey in her workplace it’s not about access to the profession sport it’s about a straightforward case of workplace bullying in a unsuitable environment and lack of professional attitude and control of what is acceptable .
Those running the racecourses have allowed an old fashioned fiefdom to persist in the weighing room that’s way out of date .
The set up should have been sorted sometime ago .
The issues with the valets should have been foreseen and managed instead they allowed this dinosaur system to persist.

 

[Steerpike]

I think it will be interesting to watch ITV racings " the opening show" 0n ITV4 channel 24 at 9:30 this morning (Saturday) to see their thoughts on the verdict and how racing may differ in the future.

Yes I'm waiting to see what they say.

 

[blodwyn1]

I did not feel a positive support there for Bryony this morning and there was careful editing of the pja guy. I wonder if they have been told to hold back in case. Of an appeal

 

[Parrotperson]

I did not feel a positive support there for Bryony this morning and there was careful editing of the pja guy. I wonder if they have been told to hold back in case. Of an appeal

was out on a dog walk so didn't see it but not at all surprised about that. From yesterday's coverage it seemed to me that Francesca Cumani was very concerned about the attitude they weer taking and tried to say so. Good for her.

THERE SHOULD BE NO DOUBT HERE. Support for Bryony should be unequivocal and universal ESP rom the PJA and the BHA.

The fact that it isn't is telling.

I am going to email the CEO. here. ps@thepja.co.uk

Hers the address if you feel like writing

The Professional Jockeys Association (PJA)
39B Kingfisher Court
Hambridge Road
Newbury
RG14 5SJ

I think we have a duty ti let them know how wrong they are.

 

[Fellewell]

That does not render her sentiment 'not worth listening to'.
I don't consider Frost a 'threat' to the male jockeys at all either, if that were the reason behind Dunne's actions why didn't behave similarly towards Rachael Blackmore who is a way more successful rider than Frost?

Completely agree, Blackmore's faultless performance in the National was amazing. It is extremely patronising to portray female jockeys as Stepford wives. They just want to get on with their jobs away from this negative media circus.
This was a show trial, brought about by a very media savvy young woman who wanted to inflict maximum damage. She may live to rue the day she refused the option of conflict resolution suggested by her father.
It's also worth remembering that men are subject to bullying in the workplace and men can be sexually abused and threatened too. Lets not demonise them altogether.

 

[DiNozzo]

Completely agree, Blackmore's faultless performance in the National was amazing. It is extremely patronising to portray female jockeys as Stepford wives. They just want to get on with their jobs away from this negative media circus.
This was a show trial, brought about by a very media savvy young woman who wanted to inflict maximum damage. She may live to rue the day she refused the option of conflict resolution suggested by her father.
It's also worth remembering that men are subject to bullying in the workplace and men can be sexually abused and threatened too. Lets not demonise them altogether.

How disgusting.

Frost has been proven to be bullied by Dunne. Whether she is 'media savvy' or not has nothing to do with it. A trial (/process?) has been conducted and found what she has said to be true.

What do other men being bullied and sexually abused have anything to do with this? No one has said that it isn't true, it just isn't relevant to the true, and proven fact, that Dunne bullied Frost.

 

[ycbm]

Completely agree, Blackmore's faultless performance in the National was amazing. It is extremely patronising to portray female jockeys as Stepford wives. They just want to get on with their jobs away from this negative media circus.
This was a show trial, brought about by a very media savvy young woman who wanted to inflict maximum damage. She may live to rue the day she refused the option of conflict resolution suggested by her father.
It's also worth remembering that men are subject to bullying in the workplace and men can be sexually abused and threatened too. Lets not demonise them altogether.

I don't see anyone on this thread demonising men.

If you're female this is enough to turn me into a badge carrying placard waving feminist and that's really saying something!

Bryony did not take this case to court, the British Horseracing Authority did. Bryony wasn't on the bench, three independent lawyers(?) were.

Oh, and all grown women should obviously do what their daddies tell them to ?, especially when Daddy is himself part of the old establishment.
.

 

[Fellewell]

Oh it's justice you're after is it? Because most of you seem to want his head on a plate. Now that's disgusting!

 

[NinjaPony]

The attitudes of some posters helps to explain why Dunne was able to bully Frost for so long. No one wants his ‘head on a plate’, they want justice to be carried out, which it has. The case has been ruled, he has been found guilty and punished accordingly. Nothing disgusting about that. His behaviour? Now that’s disgusting.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's a bit like the discussion about hunting, really. With 'supporters' like these, who needs enemies ?.

So very blind to the issues faced, and so very keen to deflect any blame.

 

[Archangel]

Oh, and all grown women should obviously do what their daddies tell them to ?, especially when Daddy is himself part of the old establishment.
.

Furthermore...
What did Dunne's father suggest his son should do?
Has anyone mentioned it?

Didn't think so.
.

 

[Andie02]

Furthermore...
What did Dunne's father suggest his son should do?
Has anyone mentioned it?

Didn't think so.
.

Or his wife. Guessing she wouldn't be too happy to find out he had been wanging his willy about, and considering she gave birth recently.

 

[splashgirl45]

It wasn’t dumbed father is was jimmy frost who wanted them to sort it out , he probably knew his daughter wouldn’t come out of it well as the jockeys wouldn’t like a whistle blower

 

[Shilasdair]

Oh it's justice you're after is it? Because most of you seem to want his head on a plate. Now that's disgusting!

Oh stop with the 'Poor, poor, Roobie Dunne' emotive nonsense.
All the poor man did was systematically name-call, wave his penis at, and threaten a jockey who has a more successful record than him (not hard) at a much younger age. All recorded on camera, by witnesses, incidentally so it isn't 'Frost's story' or 'Dunne's story'.
And an INDEPENDENT panel found him guilty, and banned him for 15 months with 3 months suspended (there's a good reason for that 3 months hanging over him too).
From the panel's findings, poor ickle Dunne wouldn't know the truth if it slapped him in the face either.
And here you are, victim-blaming.
YOUR opinion disgusts me.

 

[splashgirl45]

Sorry, that should have said dunnes father , phone keeps changing the spelling

 

[Shilasdair]

It wasn’t dumbed father is was jimmy frost who wanted them to sort it out , he probably knew his daughter wouldn’t come out of it well as the jockeys wouldn’t like a whistle blower

I think the point Archangel was making was that everyone is implying that Frost's father 'owns' Bryony and therefore she should obey him in typical patriarchal style by meeting up with her willy-waving abuser to 'sort things out'.
Whereas no one is saying 'Dunne's father thought he should jump in the sea, he should have obeyed' (for example).