Equimins vitamin e

[Hackback]

That could explain why I didn't find it very effective. Mind you I didn't find the Progressive Earth powder very effective either but then again I couldn't feed the amount of powder I calculated I needed (may well have calculated wrong) as my horse is too fussy with his feeds. I tried both (hoping to find something cheaper) but went back to Nano-E, which is both natural and water soluble and seems to be the only one that makes a noticeable difference to my horse, and which he doesn't turn his nose up at.

 

[onemoretime]

Progressive Earth. My lot are now all on Pro Balance but I've used different ones like Pro Hoof and Pro Minerals depending on requirements. Pro Balance works well as a one size fits all for mine

OMG how long ago was this please? I lost a young horse in 2014 from E Coli poisoning, he was being fed Advanced Complete pellets. We were away at the time and the ladies looking after him had just opened a new tub and within a day or 2 he became very very ill. They got him to the hospital and he was there for 4 weeks. His entire intestinal tract was inflamed. It destroyed his gut and we had to have in PTS in the end. Had a £10.5k vet bill.

 

[ycbm]

I cannot find an oil (as opposed to powder) .

The powders sold are powdered oil.

 

[TPO]

OMG how long ago was this please? I lost a young horse in 2014 from E Coli poisoning, he was being fed Advanced Complete pellets. We were away at the time and the ladies looking after him had just opened a new tub and within a day or 2 he became very very ill. They got him to the hospital and he was there for 4 weeks. His entire intestinal tract was inflamed. It destroyed his gut and we had to have in PTS in the end. Had a £10.5k vet bill.

It was round about march/April 2015.

My two (then 2yr old QH and 14yr old TB) only had the new tub of supp for 2 days too. It was the only new thing (new tub) and the only thing different from their fieldmate, my mums horse. Mums horse are the exact same but had pro balance instead of equimmins advance.

Mine was the powder. I've just checked back and I dont have the emails any more to confirm dates and batch number.

I am so sorry to hear about your horse. That must be heartbreaking

 

[paddy555]

The powders sold are powdered oil.

I know but I want liquid oil not a powder. I found it far easier to use and less wasteful.

 

[Littlewills]

I'm stunned that anyone would in any shape or form support a company who has lied and deceived people. The consequences of this could have been fatal if a horse had a severe tie up. There are people coming forward whose horses have tied up and people whose horses have been written off while using it. No one will ever know if that would have happened had they been on the correct dose. Given how effective vitamin e is as a PSSM treatment it seems likely that the unwittingly low dose has at very least contributed if not caused this.

And Equimins have covered this up. They havent contacted customers or put out a statement. Instead they changed the packaging and over 5 months later they changed the website. All very quietly and by removing some key words. It also took them at least 4 years probably significantly longer to work out that they werent selling the correct product. If its happened with vitamin e oil which is easy to identify, then who knows what other products its effected. I value my horses too much to ever use another one of their products.

 

[ycbm]

I'm stunned that anyone would in any shape or form support a company who has lied and deceived people. The consequences of this could have been fatal if a horse had a severe tie up. There are people coming forward whose horses have tied up and people whose horses have been written off while using it. No one will ever know if that would have happened had they been on the correct dose. Given how effective vitamin e is as a PSSM treatment it seems likely that the unwittingly low dose has at very least contributed if not caused this.

And Equimins have covered this up. They havent contacted customers or put out a statement. Instead they changed the packaging and over 5 months later they changed the website. All very quietly and by removing some key words. It also took them at least 4 years probably significantly longer to work out that they werent selling the correct product. If its happened with vitamin e oil which is easy to identify, then who knows what other products its effected. I value my horses too much to ever use another one of their products.

I feel the same, I will never buy from them again. There is simply no excuse for not knowing with vitamin E that the product you are selling is synthetic. I wonder if someone caught them out, how, and how much longer it would have gone on if someone had not realised?

I'm bloody mad, I paid nearly £60 for 250 usable 1000iu doses of vitamin E that arrived Tuesday, because it was supposedly natural and 500 doses. I hate the liquid oil and now I find the powder stuff I much prefer would have been cheaper anyway. It wasn't even despatched for five days, either.

How anyone can trust them again is a bit beyond me.
.

 

[Safi2]

My horse has just been diagnosed with RER and the vet has recommended I buy this product or Nano-e. Both look to be rather expensive (I am obviously willing to pay but want to make sure I am buying the correct thing as reading this on pssm pages today it has concerned me what I am buying).

At the moment she is on a powder called dura-e which was prescribed by the vet when she last tied up. It is 2500ui per day that the vet is recommending. Which product would you recommend I buy. It’s all a mine field and very new to me.

 

[COldNag]

This is really naughty
Back to Progressive Earth for me, then.

 

[paddy555]

My horse has just been diagnosed with RER and the vet has recommended I buy this product or Nano-e. Both look to be rather expensive (I am obviously willing to pay but want to make sure I am buying the correct thing as reading this on pssm pages today it has concerned me what I am buying).

At the moment she is on a powder called dura-e which was prescribed by the vet when she last tied up. It is 2500ui per day that the vet is recommending. Which product would you recommend I buy. It’s all a mine field and very new to me.

nano is extremely expensive. Very. I think nearly £400 to provide the same dose as equimins for £100.
I used the equimins one on a horse that had collapsed with a rider on from tying up. He was that bad. I had previously spent nearly 3k on horse hospital and chiro treament. I got results quickly.

I can only comment on evidence based results not this witch hunt. If I had found this product ineffective I would probably join the key board warriors on this. I don't. I found it works.

 

[paddy555]

I feel the same, I will never buy from them again. There is simply no excuse for not knowing with vitamin E that the product you are selling is synthetic. I wonder if someone caught them out, how, and how much longer it would have gone on if someone had not realised?

I'm bloody mad, I paid nearly £60 for 250 usable 1000iu doses of vitamin E that arrived Tuesday, because it was supposedly natural and 500 doses. I hate the liquid oil and now I find the powder stuff I much prefer would have been cheaper anyway. It wasn't even despatched for five days, either.

How anyone can trust them again is a bit beyond me.
.

you have experience of both oil and powder, I know from the past you hated the oil. Why not just buy the powder.

ETA I buy the oil and AC because they work for my horses. I think it would be stupid for my horses to stop buying products that work and change to makes that I have no idea if they would work just as a matter of principle but each to their own

 

[paddy555]

I'm stunned that anyone would in any shape or form support a company who has lied and deceived people. The consequences of this could have been fatal if a horse had a severe tie up. There are people coming forward whose horses have tied up and people whose horses have been written off while using it. No one will ever know if that would have happened had they been on the correct dose. Given how effective vitamin e is as a PSSM treatment it seems likely that the unwittingly low dose has at very least contributed if not caused this.

And Equimins have covered this up. They havent contacted customers or put out a statement. Instead they changed the packaging and over 5 months later they changed the website. All very quietly and by removing some key words. It also took them at least 4 years probably significantly longer to work out that they werent selling the correct product. If its happened with vitamin e oil which is easy to identify, then who knows what other products its effected. I value my horses too much to ever use another one of their products.

I am not going to stop using products that work. Equimins corrected their labelling etc. You say lied and deceived. Were they challenged about this and lied and tried to cover it up or was it something that unfortunately happened and they corrected it. Perhaps they should have put out a statement but I think from your e mail stream they accepted your comments and just repaid you.

I value my horses too much to change from products I know work.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I value my horses too much to change from products I know work.

Whereas I value my horses far too much to feed them products from a company who firstly sold a product as something it was not, and then tried to cover it up.

They should never have marketed a product of dubious provenance.

I wouldn’t trust any of the products that they sell after this - goodness knows what’s in them, and whether it stays constant from batch to batch.

 

[PapaverFollis]

It isn't a witch hunt if it's true. They have been mis-selling a product. It was labelled and marketed as natural. It is priced as if it were natural. Apart from anything else that's probably illegal. Companies are not allowed to just mis-label stuff.

If the synthetic product works then people are being over-charged for it. If it doesn't then people's horses are still suffering when they should have been getting better.

My mare tied up while on 8000iU of this product. Sge might not have done if she was on 8000iU of an actually natural product.

NanoE is very expensive but I think it is even further refined natural vitamin E (there are more than 2 forms of the stuff I believe, which is what I was saying in my previous post about the actual chemistry being more complex, not that I just hadn't used the word isomer)

If you want to keep using the product, paddy, that's fine for you. But people have a right to be very angry about this. I was buying this product because I had been mis-led into believing it was natural by their packaging and marketing. It had a positive effect on my horse because 10,000 iU of synthetic vitamin E delivers 5000iU which is in the realms of what a PSSM horse needs... but whenever I dropped the dose there were small problems again, then the tye up. I changed other stuff too after that and prevented further tye ups. BUT I now feed 6000iU of natural vitamin E and can see a difference from when I was feeding the oil at that rate.

 

[ycbm]

you have experience of both oil and powder, I know from the past you hated the oil. Why not just buy the powder.

ETA I buy the oil and AC because they work for my horses. I think it would be stupid for my horses to stop buying products that work and change to makes that I have no idea if they would work just as a matter of principle but each to their own

Paddy, come on now.

Look back at your own posts insisting that you only feed the best vitamin E, and that's why you feed Equimins, thinking as we all did that Equimins was natural.

I didn't agree with that because any vitamin E works, and i prefer handling the powder. But if you feed synthetic you have to feed twice as much to get the same bio availability.

The reason you had success with it was because it works. But you could have fed half as much of a natural product and got the same result.

And all those threads with you and I insisting it was the cheapest way to feed vitamin E are now utter bunkum, it was actually bloody expensive!

.

 

[Littlewills]

My horse has just been diagnosed with RER and the vet has recommended I buy this product or Nano-e. Both look to be rather expensive (I am obviously willing to pay but want to make sure I am buying the correct thing as reading this on pssm pages today it has concerned me what I am buying).

At the moment she is on a powder called dura-e which was prescribed by the vet when she last tied up. It is 2500ui per day that the vet is recommending. Which product would you recommend I buy. It’s all a mine field and very new to me.

Forage plus powder works out the cheapest for natural vitamin e. Most start at 10000ius. Id advise joining one of the facebook groups. Treatment can be a bit trial and error and it really helps to see what has worked for other people. I find the best one to be

https://www.facebook.com/groups/520902158633795

 

[ycbm]

I wonder how many horses have been put down because they were only on half the dose of vitamin E their owners thought they were giving them?

If my horse's failure to thrive on a huge amount of food is solved by adding vitamin E at the right dose, but wasn't solved by a half dose, I would be in for hundreds, possibly thousands, of pounds of diagnostics to find out why, which would have been fruitless and found nothing.

Thank heavens you posted Chincilla!

The more I think about this the more shocked I am.

 

[Littlewills]

ETA I buy the oil and AC because they work for my horses. I think it would be stupid for my horses to stop buying products that work and change to makes that I have no idea if they would work just as a matter of principle but each to their own

I cant work out if you genuinely dont understand or if you work for Equimins. The equimins oil is not special. It is synthetic vitamin e oil. It can be bought from various places if you look, in both oil and powder form. Any synthetic vitamin e oil would have the same effect.

You say that you would be stupid to stop buying product that work and make changes that you dont know will work, but you have no idea what you are buying. For at least 5 years Equimins sold you an incorrectly labelled and advertised product. They got caught out and covered it up. How do you know this is the only product missold? I strongly believe it isnt, but until they are caught out then you wont ever know.

 

[Littlewills]

I wonder how many horses have been put down because they were only on half the dose of vitamin E their owners thought they were giving them?

The more I think about this the more shocked I am.

Someone is in contact with them who ran up a £3000 vet bill. She believed the PSSM was under control on 10000ius of vitamin e and that there must have been another problem. It was diagnosed as behavioural as nothing was found!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Paddy555 - It 'working' for one horse is not proof it 'works'. The bioavailability issue is cold fact - you were feeding half the amount you thought you were. Luckily that appears to have been enough for your horses. But just say one horse was tying up on it. And your vet asks what you are feeding. And you give totally wrong info to your vet. Increasing the dose is ruled out as an option because you are wrong about the current dose..... Can't you see the issues here regardless of whether your horses are fine on it at the moment?

I don't feed it. I don't have a PSSM horse. But as a matter of principle it is outrageous and dangerous. You HAVE to be able to trust the labelling on supplements.

 

[paddy555]

Paddy, come on now.

Look back at your own posts insisting that you only feed the best vitamin E, and that's why you feed Equimins, thinking as we all did that Equimins was natural.

I didn't agree with that because any vitamin E works, and i prefer handling the powder. But if you feed synthetic you have to feed twice as much to get the same bio availability.

The reason you had success with it was because it works. But you could have fed half as much of a natural product and got the same result.

And all those threads with you and I insisting it was the cheapest way to feed vitamin E are now utter bunkum, it was actually bloody expensive!

.

I still stand by that. I feed equimins because it worked and still does. No way would I change.

I think the difference is that you bought equimins based on price and I agree on the calculations we did it was the cheapest.

re your penultimate para, I could have fed half as much of a natural product.:-

I was told this last night on FB by LW

you are missing the point. It's been missold. If you were using a natural oil you could use 50% less. You would have saved a fortune.
If course it works. Vitamin e does work for Pssm etc. It's the fact it's cost you double what it should have and you have had no idea that's the issue.

I asked her to demonstrate this. Still waiting. So, LW come up with the pricing for a natural liquid oil vit E that costs less than equimins is costing me. In fact it should be costing me half per your final para.

 

[PapaverFollis]

IF equimins oil WAS natural as it was advertised you COULD have used half as much and got the same results. Hence spent half as much. It isn't natural but it is priced as if it is so it's gone from being a cheapish natural option to a very expensive synthetic one!

 

[PapaverFollis]

You could either switch to another synthetic vitamin E and keep feeding the same amount for half as much money. Or switch to an actually natural vitamin E and feed half the amount for half as much money OR feed the same amount, for the same money and be giving your horses twice as much accessible vitamin E.

I don't know any other brands that deliver as an actual liquid oil. If that's really important to you then you are free to stick with equimins. But that isn't what is important to others commenting here.

 

[paddy555]

I cant work out if you genuinely dont understand or if you work for Equimins. The equimins oil is not special. It is synthetic vitamin e oil. It can be bought from various places if you look, in both oil and powder form. Any synthetic vitamin e oil would have the same effect.

You say that you would be stupid to stop buying product that work and make changes that you dont know will work, but you have no idea what you are buying. For at least 5 years Equimins sold you an incorrectly labelled and advertised product. They got caught out and covered it up. How do you know this is the only product missold? I strongly believe it isnt, but until they are caught out then you wont ever know.

I don't work for equimins and I have no connection with them. I am merely a happy customer. I am still waiting for you to tell me where I can buy natural oil that is going to come out a lot cheaper. Which product are you referring to.
I understand perfectly. I have no problem with that. I read your e mail exchange.They made a mistake. If they had originally mislabelled it deliberately as natural I would be very annoyed. I don't believe they did. I think they made a mistake. Should they have put a statement on their website correcting their error. Yes that would have been a good idea.

Re your 2nd para I now know exactly what I am buying. Why would I change from a make I know works? what would be the point?

You strongly believe this is not the only product misold. Based on? what evidence? or just because one product had problems the rest must also.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I've now got 3 experiences with equimins myself that make me think they don't have a clue what they are talking about. None of them on their own seemed bothered me too much but all added together, and adding on other people's reported experiences even just on this thread, and I now won't be touching them with a very long barge pole.

 

[paddy555]

Paddy555 - It 'working' for one horse is not proof it 'works'. The bioavailability issue is cold fact - you were feeding half the amount you thought you were. Luckily that appears to have been enough for your horses. But just say one horse was tying up on it. And your vet asks what you are feeding. And you give totally wrong info to your vet. Increasing the dose is ruled out as an option because you are wrong about the current dose..... Can't you see the issues here regardless of whether your horses are fine on it at the moment?

I don't feed it. I don't have a PSSM horse. But as a matter of principle it is outrageous and dangerous. You HAVE to be able to trust the labelling on supplements.

I can totally see the issues. I can see that the original costings we did for equimins were wrong and it was more expensive than we thought. I can see that any synthetic oil could give the same results as theirs. I can see equimins were careless, I can see people may want to change brands now as they find a cheaper one. What I don't see is that they deliberately and maliciously set out to deceive people which is my perception of some of the comments.
I also don't see that this can be extrapolated to any of their other products. We even have one person above whose horse sadly died of E coli. The suggestion that comes across could be taken that their AC contained this and killed the horse. That is a very big leap.

Working for one horse is not proof it works. That is very true. Other horses have been successful on it and that is also not proof. In fact other than blood testing vit e levels in every horse there is no way of knowing.
There have been several comments both on here and FB that horses could have died because they were being underdosed and not therefore not being recognised as PSSM so their demise is due to equimins error. I read one of those on FB last night. The number of times I told that person to rug and exercise the horse to try and establish if they were looking at PSSM.

 

[PapaverFollis]

If someone was doing everything else right, rugs exercise, and feeding the horse a 10000iU dose of Equimins oil but the horse was still symptomatic and suffering... if the oil was believed to be natural vitamin E it might be that that horse got written off or even PTS. Where 10000iU of actually natural vitamin E might have tipped the balance and eased the horse's symptoms.

I was so so confused when mine tied up on 8000iU. But knowing she was only on 4000iU really makes a lot more sense. I slipped up on rugging too but maybe with 8000iU of natural vitamin E my rugging slip up might not have mattered and she might have been spared the tye up.

 

[Littlewills]

I still stand by that. I feed equimins because it worked and still does. No way would I change.

I think the difference is that you bought equimins based on price and I agree on the calculations we did it was the cheapest.

re your penultimate para, I could have fed half as much of a natural product.:-

I was told this last night on FB by LW

you are missing the point. It's been missold. If you were using a natural oil you could use 50% less. You would have saved a fortune.
If course it works. Vitamin e does work for Pssm etc. It's the fact it's cost you double what it should have and you have had no idea that's the issue.

I asked her to demonstrate this. Still waiting. So, LW come up with the pricing for a natural liquid oil vit E that costs less than equimins is costing me. In fact it should be costing me half per your final para.

I'm afraid I chose to stop engaging with you. I provided you with some information, but the reality is you arent interested.

Having now seen previous posts where you aggressively push the fact the vitamin e MUST be natural can I ask why that is no longer relevant? You were very certain not so long ago.

 

[paddy555]

I'm afraid I chose to stop engaging with you. I provided you with some information, but the reality is you arent interested.

Having now seen previous posts where you aggressively push the fact the vitamin e MUST be natural can I ask why that is no longer relevant? You were very certain not so long ago.

ah, I see. I guessed you have stopped engaging with me and realised that you simply could not back up your original comment that I could have saved a fortune. Simply because I couldn't have. All you really told me was about wastage and totally ignored the fact that I didn't have any.

It was my understanding, as it is with everyone else, that vit E should be natural. Now I simply wonder as I have had such success on a synthetic product. I would still suggest a natural oil but would also recommend equimins as I have found it works. As with everything it is up to people to make up their own minds

I see as recently as Dec 10 you were suggesting AC to someone yet now I guess you think it is rubbish. I see you suggested PSSM2 testing. Why? May be right may be wrong. Like many things with PSSM there are so many variables.

 

[NinjaPony]

It’s all a matter of principle. Mislabelling and misleading customers about what they feed their horses is incredibly dangerous, and morally wrong.
My pony looks great on AC powder and their vitamin e oil. But I’m still not going to give them any more of my money, knowing that they have been covering up their mistake for years now. I’m lucky, my pony just gets vitamin e because he’s on almost no grass and has Cushings, so it was advised. It’s a supplement, not a health essential. But others clearly haven’t been so lucky, and it’s unacceptable.