paddy555
Well-Known Member
did your vet test your horse for vit e levels? that would have been a good place to start to see if she was absorbing the vit e and if in fact you had a deficiency.
Equimins vitamin e
- Thread starter Chinchilla
- Start date
did your vet test your horse for vit e levels? that would have been a good place to start to see if she was absorbing the vit e and if in fact you had a deficiency.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Don't be daft.
COldNag
Wasting my time successfully....
Same here i switched from Progressive Earth to Equimins because it was quicker/cheaper delivery.
On point of principle I am going back to PE.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
your horse tied up, I guess you suspected PSSM, presumably thought E was a potential cause and then didn't test. Why is it daft to establish the levels of vit E? I would have thought more daft not to.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
How many of your horses do you test for vitamin E levels, paddy? How many of them when you are already feeding 8000iU of what you think is natural vitamin E? I have posted about this horse numerous times on here, I have read many threads on PSSM. I've been advised to test for PSSM but never to check vitamin E levels. In fact I've seen it said that checking vitamin E levels in blood does not always show up a deficiency anyway. I've been in contact with my vet throughout who has never even wanted to do a blood test or been bothered about the genetic test.
The horse is needle phobic and large, so the vet and I need a bloody good reason to stick her. Testing a horse supposedly being fed 8000iU of natural vitamin E a day for vitamin E deficiency is not a good reason. I put the tye up down to other reasons. Started feeding Alcar and was even more careful about rugging and work increases, boosted the vitamin E back up to 10,000iU.
Currently feeding 6000iU of ForagePlus powder and have better movement then I ever saw on even 10000iU of the Equimins. Now I know why.
The horse is needle phobic and large, so the vet and I need a bloody good reason to stick her. Testing a horse supposedly being fed 8000iU of natural vitamin E a day for vitamin E deficiency is not a good reason. I put the tye up down to other reasons. Started feeding Alcar and was even more careful about rugging and work increases, boosted the vitamin E back up to 10,000iU.
Currently feeding 6000iU of ForagePlus powder and have better movement then I ever saw on even 10000iU of the Equimins. Now I know why.
Safi2
Member
I am thinking I should be trying the forage plus powder after reading comments from here about equimins oil and the RER Facebook pages. I need to be supplementing 2500ui per day. Would I work out cheaper using forage plus or nano-e? I have enough Dura-e from my prescription to last around a week so need to order an alternative as soon as possible. Thank you all for providing some insight
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
ForagePlus would be cheaper per iU. But for 2500iU a day I'd be tempted to try Nano-E, if finances allow at all, as the delivery system is different and more efficient.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
FWIW I doubt Equimins DELIBERATELY set out to deceive their customers initially. But the thing is that they have been negligent on several counts:
* They did not check the analysis of the product in the first instance (which absolutely blows my mind..!!)
* Once they did have the correct information they changed the product label but NOT the website. Most of their customers will be Web based and would only have been privvy to the description there when purchasing.
* When they finally got around to changing the website they didn't make a statement or explanation.
* They should have put out a statement for their customers upon discovering their product was not as described.
I don't think they intended to deceive originally but they have certainly quietly covered up their mistake and that is dishonest and underhanded.
Unfortunately it places doubt in people's minds as to the integrity of the company and it's products going forward.
The thing that makes me the most angry is thinking of people who may have given up on their horses as the product just isn't working, and for the horses themselves that have potentially suffered because of this.
* They did not check the analysis of the product in the first instance (which absolutely blows my mind..!!)
* Once they did have the correct information they changed the product label but NOT the website. Most of their customers will be Web based and would only have been privvy to the description there when purchasing.
* When they finally got around to changing the website they didn't make a statement or explanation.
* They should have put out a statement for their customers upon discovering their product was not as described.
I don't think they intended to deceive originally but they have certainly quietly covered up their mistake and that is dishonest and underhanded.
Unfortunately it places doubt in people's minds as to the integrity of the company and it's products going forward.
The thing that makes me the most angry is thinking of people who may have given up on their horses as the product just isn't working, and for the horses themselves that have potentially suffered because of this.
DirectorFury
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. The true measure of a company is how they handle things that go wrong, and EQ have shown very poor judgement in their handling of this, from start to finish.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
My read on it is that they didn't fully understand that there is a clear distinction between natural and synthetic vitamin E in the first place. And then have quietly tried to brush it under the carpet when they realised.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
I'm completely shocked at this thread.
I wont be buying anything from Equimins again.
I wont be buying anything from Equimins again.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I should probably also say that the mare was on full dose of "de-tye and drink" (probably now "un-tye") when she tyed up too. ? but I stopped feeding that when I got no answer as to how much selenium is in it.
black and brown
Well-Known Member
I was just about to order a new tub of AC powder but thankfully saw this thread first. Any recommendations for an alternative which is low in iron for a barefoot horse?
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Progressive Earth, Forage Plus or EquiVita are no iron, high copper balancers. I don't know if there are others without iron too.
HappyHollyDays
Slave to a house cat, 4 yard cats and 2 ponies
Just to add another supplier to the mix have a look at Science Supplements NaturalE. I have never used it but am very impressed with the LiverAid and RespirAid, the former has done wonders where FP did nothing after 3 years of use. Their supplements are scientifically researched and every ingredient is there for you to see.
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
Many thanks for your reply TPO. It was a very traumatic experience and one I will never forget. He was absolutely fine when we left to go to Italy and just over a week later he was desperately ill. We thought he had eaten the hawthorn as the vets said they were certain it was a trauma to the gut from eating something sharp ( it still may have been, we shall never really know). I did immediately suspect the new tub of supplement at the time. We had only bought this lovely young horse in April 2013 and lost him in August 2014.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Because it's bloody expensive for synthetic vitamin E.
I would have saved £17 of a £55, nearly 30%, spend by buying 250,000iu of bioavailable vitamin E from Forageplus last week if I'd known then that the Equimins was synthetic.
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paddy555
Well-Known Member
I didn't need to test as I found the E product worked when I trialled it. If it hadn't I would have tested as PSSM had been suggested to me as the way forward (by a vet) and knowing the importance of E I would have had to check the levels if it didn't work as well as it should.
I have not tested the rest as i do not suspect PSSM and they have all been supplemented with vit E for many years so I have no real reason to test as I have no problems.
there was a post on here a while ago suggesting checking vit e levels before supplementing. I would not normally write that as a matter of course because I doubt many would pay the vet to test before supplementing and afterwards to check the levels had increased if necessary so it would seem pointless suggesting it.
several (not necessarily on here) have tested vit E levels. I don't think it is unusual or a strange thing to do.
I cannot comment about what your vet asks for. Mine knew just about zero about PSSM and never gave any advice at all. It was only when I asked her to contact a specialist vet that it was even suggested.
indie1282
Well-Known Member
I think this company have not done themselves any favours with how they have dealt with this. There seems to be no acknowledgement of the fact that they have mis-sold this product ( albeit 'unintentionally' in their eyes ?) and now apology to their customers! Thats what most bizarre to me. They say that it has always been synthetic but they blatantly sell and market it as natural..
Saying that there's no evidence that natural works any better is also a ridiculous thing to say...
indie1282
Well-Known Member
This. I don't think they have set out to deliberately mis-sell this product ( at least i hope not ) but as soon as they were aware they should have either taken it off sale immediately or issued a statement and came clean.
It seems to me they hoped nobody would notice and that just seems really shady to me.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I'm not even sure that PSSM horses show up as vitamin E deficient on a test. It may be that they need super high levels of vitamin E and actually fall within normal ranges when tested. The only blood tests I have been recommended have been the ones to check for muscle damage.
It's beside the point. I thought my horse was getting 8000iU of available Vitamin E. She was getting 4000iU because of the dishonesty or stupidity or both of this company.
They can get in the sea.
It's beside the point. I thought my horse was getting 8000iU of available Vitamin E. She was getting 4000iU because of the dishonesty or stupidity or both of this company.
They can get in the sea.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
are they? The example I gave to YCBM showed PE hoof to be the highest iron. Don't know about the rest of their supplements.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
well from people who I know have tested those with low vit E levels show up as low vit e levels on a blood test same as any other horse with low vit e levels. Just because you we not recommended to test vit e levels doesn't mean that it is a bad idea.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
As I said paddy, if you want to keep paying way over the odds for synthetic vitamin E from a company that has only just realised that is what it is selling that is entirely up to you. ?
Me not testing my mare's vitamin E levels when she tied up while being fed a mis-sold product does not make any difference to the fact it was mis-sold.
Me not testing my mare's vitamin E levels when she tied up while being fed a mis-sold product does not make any difference to the fact it was mis-sold.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
As I said paddy, if you want to keep paying way over the odds for synthetic vitamin E from a company that has only just realised that is what it is selling that is entirely up to you. ?
Of course, they probably won't be able to give it away now ............
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I don't understand your problem. If this was wrongly described on their web site when you bought it then ask for a refund and order some from FP. I am sure they will deal with it. If it was correctly described then it was up to you to see that and question it at the time.
There have been lots of comments that I am over paying etc however the cost of E synthetic vit E (to achieve 5000iu) and the cost of FP powder to achieve 5000iu for me is the same within a couple of pounds as I buy a larger container of the E one. So it is very cost effective, I have no hope of saving money by changing, it works, it eliminates wastage I would have with a powder and it is very quick to give to them.
Chinchilla
...
This.... Wasn't exactly what I intended this thread to be ?
Please, if you have found something that works for your horse and doesn't offend your moral principles, continue to use it.
I only posted to alert people as I know it's a pretty vital part of managing PSSM and the tack room on here is probably one of the highest traffic horse forums anywhere. But it being synthetic instead of natural may actually mean it's not suitable for some horses and/or their owners anymore.
Please, if you have found something that works for your horse and doesn't offend your moral principles, continue to use it.
I only posted to alert people as I know it's a pretty vital part of managing PSSM and the tack room on here is probably one of the highest traffic horse forums anywhere. But it being synthetic instead of natural may actually mean it's not suitable for some horses and/or their owners anymore.
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BBP
Well-Known Member
For me it’s not about the cost but the dosage to be effective that I’m unhappy about. My horse does blood test as deficient and has for 5 years. At 10000iu of Equimins vitamin e oil he remained deficient, but to double it to 20000 wouldn’t have occurred to me as it felt like I could be overdosing or that his failure to uptake it was due to other issues. But as synthetic, if it is 50% less bioavailable, I was only feeding the equivalent of 5000iu of natural. So I should have (and will now) increase how much I give him. This does have a cost implication obviously but if it worked I would deal with that. He has shown mild neuro issues, so I do think there is the possibility that it is relevant. I’m not out to witch hunt them or destroy their business,I just want my horse healthy.