Equimins vitamin e

[ycbm]

I don't understand your problem. If this was wrongly described on their web site when you bought it then ask for a refund and order some from FP. I am sure they will deal with it. If it was correctly described then it was up to you to see that and question it at the time.

My problem is that this product has been missold as natural for so many years that I didn't check and it cost £17 more than I needed to spend.

There have been lots of comments that I am over paying etc however the cost of E synthetic vit E (to achieve 5000iu) and the cost of FP powder to achieve 5000iu for me is the same within a couple of pounds as I buy a larger container of the E one. So it is very cost effective, I have no hope of saving money by changing, it works, it eliminates wastage I would have with a powder and it is very quick to give to them.

I don't understand your comment about wastage of powder. In a damp feed, if the horse eats the powder, and I have never personally met one which won't, there is zero wastage.

Current cost of 1000iu of bioavalable vitamin E from Equimins is 19p.

Current cost of the same from Forgaeplus is 15.2p

You would save 20% by changing.
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[Ambers Echo]

For me it’s not about the cost but the dosage to be effective that I’m unhappy about. My horse does blood test as deficient and has for 5 years. At 10000iu of Equimins vitamin e oil he remained deficient, but to double it to 20000 wouldn’t have occurred to me as it felt like I could be overdosing or that his failure to uptake it was due to other issues. But as synthetic, if it is 50% less bioavailable, I was only feeding the equivalent of 5000iu of natural.

This!!!! The problem with owners giving half what they thought they were giving to address a serious medical issue is so obvious that to continue to defend it because some horses are fine on it seems bizarre.

Equimins missold a product for years. Unintentionally presumably but that is no excuse. They SHOULD know what's in their products. And when they discovered the error they quietly swept it under a carpet. And even now are very 'what's all the fuss about' in their responses. Which makes me assume that they dont understand the bioavailability issue. Which in turn makes me think that they are clueless about their products so why on earth trust them with ANY product. Clueless, careless and unethical frankly doesn't do it for me!

 

[PapaverFollis]

This!!!! The problem with owners giving half what they thought they were giving to address a serious medical issue is so obvious that to continue to defend it because some horses are fine on it seems bizarre.

Equimins missold a product for years. Unintentionally presumably but that is no excuse. They SHOULD know what's in their products. And when they discovered the error they quietly swept it under a carpet. And even now are very 'what's all the fuss about' in their responses. Which makes me assume that they dont understand the bioavailability issue. Which in turn makes me think that they are clueless about their products so why on earth trust them with ANY product. Clueless, careless and unethical frankly doesn't do it for me!

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Littlewills]

ah, I see. I guessed you have stopped engaging with me and realised that you simply could not back up your original comment that I could have saved a fortune. Simply because I couldn't have. All you really told me was about wastage and totally ignored the fact that I didn't have any.

It was my understanding, as it is with everyone else, that vit E should be natural. Now I simply wonder as I have had such success on a synthetic product. I would still suggest a natural oil but would also recommend equimins as I have found it works. As with everything it is up to people to make up their own minds

I see as recently as Dec 10 you were suggesting AC to someone yet now I guess you think it is rubbish. I see you suggested PSSM2 testing. Why? May be right may be wrong. Like many things with PSSM there are so many variables.

I just found you incredibly odd and didnt feel like I should have to waste my time engaging with you for no benefit to anyone. I answered several of your questions, but you clearly dont understand how or why vitamin e works so you were just wasting my time.

And as for AC I have no idea if its rubbish or not and that is the issue. I have no idea what it is and I have no confidence that the company knows what it is either. I wont use it again and will never use another product from this company nor recommend them. Anyone I personally know who I have recommended it to have been contacted and given the information I now have and been advised to seek a refund and not use them again. I wish I could take back the many recommendations I have given over the years, but I cant sadly.

Lets hope there are no more massive and dishonest screw-ups from Equimins again or it could well be your horses suffering as a result. I know it wont be mine.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Equimins oil

£99.50 for 1litre. 1000iU per ml. 10,000iU in 10ml. 99.5p per 10,000iU. 5000iU bioavailable. £1.99 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

ForagePlus powder natural

£37.98 for 500g. 1000iU per 2g. 10,000iU in 20g. £1.51 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

ForagePlus powder synthetic

£18.99 for 500g. 1000iU per 2g. 10,000iU in 20g. 75p per 10,000iU. 5000iU bioavailable.
£1.50 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

In case anyone wants to compare costings.

 

[PapaverFollis]

And the article that explains the complexity I was alluding to when talking about the chemistry of it. I can't make myself concentrate enough to read it properly today but in case anyone else wants a delve.

https://forageplus.co.uk/natural-versus-synthetic-vitamin-e-horses/

 

[BBP]

My problem is that this product has been missold as natural for so many years that I didn't check and it cost £17 more than I needed to spend.



I don't understand your comment about wastage of powder. In a damp feed, if the horse eats the powder, and I have never personally met one which won't, there is zero wastage.

Current cost of 1000iu of bioavalable vitamin E from Equimins is 19p.

Current cost of the same from Forgaeplus is 15.2p

You would save 20% by changing.
.

Putting my hand up! My fussy sod won’t eat the powder ?

 

[Izzwall]

I feel quite relieved but angry reading this! My mare who has pssm hasn't been particularly 'right' for a while now and has been bucking/explosive, increased aggression and has been quite tight over her back end. As she's been on 9000iu of equimins vit e, my vet and I suspected it could of been hormones and not the pssm so upped her regumate to a very dosage (she does have hormone issues too) and if that failed then she would be having a full lameness work up done. By the look of it she's not getting enough vit e to keep her comfortable! Will be ordering from fp tonight and fingers crossed my poor pony will be comfortable again.

 

[Rowreach]

Their website still has a big banner on the homepage declaring their products to be natural, and a distinct lack of actual information on any of them.

 

[ycbm]

I feel quite relieved but angry reading this! My mare who has pssm hasn't been particularly 'right' for a while now and has been bucking/explosive, increased aggression and has been quite tight over her back end. As she's been on 9000iu of equimins vit e, my vet and I suspected it could of been hormones and not the pssm so upped her regumate to a very dosage (she does have hormone issues too) and if that failed then she would be having a full lameness work up done. By the look of it she's not getting enough vit e to keep her comfortable! Will be ordering from fp tonight and fingers crossed my poor pony will be comfortable again.

Meanwhile you can double the Equimins, which is what I've done today.
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[ycbm]

Their website still has a big banner on the homepage declaring their products to be natural, and a distinct lack of actual information on any of them.

?

Found in nature? No, definitely made in a factory.

 

[Izzwall]

Meanwhile you can double the Equimins, which is what I've done today.
.

That's what I've done tonight

 

[paddy555]

My problem is that this product has been missold as natural for so many years that I didn't check and it cost £17 more than I needed to spend.



I don't understand your comment about wastage of powder. In a damp feed, if the horse eats the powder, and I have never personally met one which won't, there is zero wastage.

Current cost of 1000iu of bioavalable vitamin E from Equimins is 19p.

Current cost of the same from Forgaeplus is 15.2p

You would save 20% by changing.


.

para 1 isn't really the fault of equimins. The description does not say natural. I can see it is their fault for people in the past when it was specifically described as natural but was in fact synthetic.

I would have considerable wastage as my PSSM horse is a git and drops feed everywhere even in a damp feed. A lot would be wasted as he simply wastes a lot of feed. The others clear up after him and do very nicely. I would have no idea how much powder he had eaten. He eats at a snail's pace. I simply do not have the time to stand and hold the bucket for him whilst he faffs around. It takes me less than 2 mins to feed oil to 4.

I would save perhaps £2 max by changing which simply isn't worth it and nothing is worth the risk of changing a product that has my PSSM under control.
You missed a point in my earlier post. I said that I bought a larger container of oil. I suspect your costing is based on a 1 litre container. I buy 5L ones. My costing is based on the price of a 5 L container so a fair bit less than yours.

 

[quizzie]

This explains it very well..hope link works!

https://forageplus.co.uk/natural-versus-synthetic-vitamin-e-horses/

ETA: sorry ...just seen already posted, but makes good comparisons between types/amounts and prices.

 

[criso]

Equimins oil

£99.50 for 1litre. 1000iU per ml. 10,000iU in 10ml. 99.5p per 10,000iU. 5000iU bioavailable. £1.99 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

ForagePlus powder natural

£37.98 for 500g. 1000iU per 2g. 10,000iU in 20g. £1.51 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

ForagePlus powder synthetic

£18.99 for 500g. 1000iU per 2g. 10,000iU in 20g. 75p per 10,000iU. 5000iU bioavailable.
£1.50 for 10,000iU bioavailable.

In case anyone wants to compare costings.

Quick question, the synthetic works out the same price as the natural when you adjust for price and bioavailabilty. Obviously you have to feed twice as much as it's only half as bioavailable but assuming you do that, is there any disadvantage to feeding synthetic.

I nearly went down the Equimins route but for me a powder works best as I can mix it with my other supplements for the my ym manager to tip in. Glad I didn't now as I wouldn't have been feeding enough and paying over the odds.

 

[paddy555]

I just found you incredibly odd and didnt feel like I should have to waste my time engaging with you for no benefit to anyone. I answered several of your questions, but you clearly dont understand how or why vitamin e works so you were just wasting my time.

And as for AC I have no idea if its rubbish or not and that is the issue. I have no idea what it is and I have no confidence that the company knows what it is either. I wont use it again and will never use another product from this company nor recommend them. Anyone I personally know who I have recommended it to have been contacted and given the information I now have and been advised to seek a refund and not use them again. I wish I could take back the many recommendations I have given over the years, but I cant sadly.

Lets hope there are no more massive and dishonest screw-ups from Equimins again or it could well be your horses suffering as a result. I know it wont be mine.

The difference between us is that I take one view of this situation and you take the exact opposite.
I have used supplements from E for around 10 years, possibly more. I have no qualms about them. I have only had one problem with taste which David discussed, explained and replaced with no quibble. Other than that I have only had good results. My horses are barefoot and foot growth and foot quality are massively important to me. AC delivers the results I want. I tried PE ones for a time for some as an experiment but switched them all back to E. I did however like the bars of choccy in the PE orders.
My horse started on the oil when he was in a dreadful situation, E was the only make of oil available (unless you took H & B capsules etc) so I have grown up on it for around 7 years. As I had excellent results I have been very happy with the oil.

As I have been happy with the company in the past I have been able to regard this as careless etc certainly shouldn't have happened, not dealt with very well but not deliberately dishonest. I see no reason not to continue to use products that I am very satisfied with. I could change on principle but what if I didn't get such good results, I would have changed for nothing.

I guess that if my horses have managed to successfully survive equimins for 10 years they will probably cope into the future.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I used synthetic Pro Earth vit E on my mare when I first trialled her on it, simply because I hadn’t done my research properly, doh. But it worked fine, she improved dramatically and I soon realised that I just needed to double up the dose.

I’ve fed natural vit E since then (31/2 years). She’s on 8000iu daily.

 

[ycbm]

The description does not say natural.

See post 131, screen shot taken immediately before posting.

 

[Littlewills]

As I have been happy with the company in the past I have been able to regard this as careless etc certainly shouldn't have happened, not dealt with very well but not deliberately dishonest. I see no reason not to continue to use products that I am very satisfied with. I could change on principle but what if I didn't get such good results, I would have changed for nothing.

I guess that if my horses have managed to successfully survive equimins for 10 years they will probably cope into the future.

It is deliberately dishonest. They have carefully and deliberately hidden this from customers knowing that they had been misselling a product that is used to treat a medical condition. This has only come out now by accident. If it hadnt they would not have told anyone. Its also illegal. As well as being entitled to a refund anyone adversely effected can claim compensation. I hope everyone entitled to do that does.

I hope your horses do cope. I value mine too much to play Russian roulette with them.

 

[paddy555]

See post 131, screen shot taken immediately before posting.

it doesn't say anywhere natural vit E oil. It was on the original product description but then was removed.

 

[paddy555]

I hope your horses do cope. I value mine too much to play Russian roulette with them.

me too, that is why I shall continue to use their oil.

 

[paddy555]

And the article that explains the complexity I was alluding to when talking about the chemistry of it. I can't make myself concentrate enough to read it properly today but in case anyone else wants a delve.

https://forageplus.co.uk/natural-versus-synthetic-vitamin-e-horses/

i have read that article and many other similar ones over the years. I thought I understood it. Leaving aside the complexities of it the basic premise appeared to be if you feed synthetic you need to feed double. Both synthetic and natural will work. (in a nutshell)
This thread has made me question what I have been doing and what I understood. I have given a very seriously ill PSSM horse what I thought was 10000iu of natural. By the time I started this horse had just collapsed tied up with a rider. Of course we also undertook the full PSSM management measures. I got an indication of success in less than 2 days of the vit e, after a week we were well on our way forward. The results I got were what I had expected (or at least what everything I read told me was possible to happen) ie give 10k iu. The horse has been ridden almost daily for the last 6 years.

The 2nd horse was not PSSM but PPID. He was only 12 and his muscle loss was tremendous. Dr K recommended all PPID horses should have 5000iu per day. Accordingly I gave him what I thought was 5000iu. The horse improved considerably and regained the muscle loss and looked fantastic again. No surprise. I had done as suggested and got the anticipated results.

Except of course I hadn't followed the rules. I had inadvertently used synthetic and, according to the rules, only given half the dose. So both horses should have been only half as successful but they weren't.
If their problems with the 2 diseases had only been minor I can see I could have got away with a half dose but not in the situation either were in.

 

[ycbm]

it doesn't say anywhere natural vit E oil. It was on the original product description but then was removed.

It says ALL their products are natural.

There's no 5 litre option on the website btw.

 

[quizzie]

i have read that article and many other similar ones over the years. I thought I understood it. Leaving aside the complexities of it the basic premise appeared to be if you feed synthetic you need to feed double. Both synthetic and natural will work. (in a nutshell)
This thread has made me question what I have been doing and what I understood. I have given a very seriously ill PSSM horse what I thought was 10000iu of natural. By the time I started this horse had just collapsed tied up with a rider. Of course we also undertook the full PSSM management measures. I got an indication of success in less than 2 days of the vit e, after a week we were well on our way forward. The results I got were what I had expected (or at least what everything I read told me was possible to happen) ie give 10k iu. The horse has been ridden almost daily for the last 6 years.

The 2nd horse was not PSSM but PPID. He was only 12 and his muscle loss was tremendous. Dr K recommended all PPID horses should have 5000iu per day. Accordingly I gave him what I thought was 5000iu. The horse improved considerably and regained the muscle loss and looked fantastic again. No surprise. I had done as suggested and got the anticipated results.

Except of course I hadn't followed the rules. I had inadvertently used synthetic and, according to the rules, only given half the dose. So both horses should have been only half as successful but they weren't.
If their problems with the 2 diseases had only been minor I can see I could have got away with a half dose but not in the situation either were in.

The answer is ...as ever...that it’s not quite that simple!

Some horses can absorb and utilise vitamin e more easily than others.... in most horses the double quantity of synthetic to natural is needed...others may not need quite the same ratio.

I have one who cannot utilise the acetate (powdered) versions be it natural or synthetic....he has to have the nano e....they are all different.

I have blood tested and performance tested mine to prove to myself that unfortunately I will have to spend the extra on the miscellised version!

 

[paddy555]

.

There's no 5 litre option on the website BTW.

what are you suggesting, that I am lying?

 

[ycbm]

what are you suggesting, that I am lying?

Of course not. I'm stating that there is no 5 litre option on the website, because there isn't, and it therefore wasn't possible to use it in my calculation of relative costs.
.

 

[PapaverFollis]

How much is it for 5 litres? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[paddy555]

Of course not. I'm stating that there is no 5 litre option on the website, because there isn't, and it therefore wasn't possible to use it in my calculation of relative costs.
.

I order by phone. I got fed up of continually ordering individual bottles so they offered 5L. I don't suppose they include it as the average horse owner would not get through it in time.

As their products have been totally rubbished on here and no one will ever consider buying again from them as a matter of principle I don't see it really matters anyway.

 

[ester]

I'm surprised at their response, on the basis that I have pointed contacted them about website errors before (not matching the packaging and I was geek enough to notice) and I got an email back from David very quickly thanking me and rectifying the issue.

This situation just has too many possible health implications.

chinchilla, you forgot to include that this part of the forum is also very searchable via google for non-members which I think for this is important.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

Just come back to this thread and see people have had the exact same dismissive email response as me. Like everyone else, I’ve been under dosing my pony by half ? and wondering why he’s slowly got more tight behind! I swapped to the equimins over the summer as I was advised at the time it would work out more cost effective... easier to get him to eat it too. I’m hoping if I go straight to doubling the dose, he’ll be OK now until I get some natural from FP. Will be taking him straight off the advance complete too - I’ve just had to have him shod as his feet were so awful, I was wondering why they weren’t improving!
Safe to say I was fuming when I got this - clearly a cut and paste because I never even mentioned Cushings!