Ex-raccehorse woes, seriously what am I going to do?

snopuma

snopuma

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So 3 years and 9months ago I bought an ex-racehorse, she was sold to me as being a bit too boring for the owner because she's was so good and she had supposedly retrained her, I am pretty convinced now that when I tried her she was doped I have had one successful ride in walk trot and canter on her and that was the day I brought her home, the second ride she bronced in the school and bolted a first for me all other previous horses have had plenty to say so I would say I am accomplished after 37 years of horses but I have never felt like I did that day, I got some professional help after 6 months of avoiding the canter with her and to be fair barely riding her, the professional can ride her, yep he can he can really ride he sits to all the rearing, broncing and bucking. Good for him. He can't understand what my problem is. She has been to 2 dressage shows she won both her classes one with him and one with me (after he had warmed up - she bronced in the warm up)

This time last year she put me on the floor in great style, I lay there unable to move, after 2 hours on the floor I went off in the ambulance, suspected broken pelvis, luckily after x-rays I hadn't broken anything, amazing! they packed me of home at 3am and said you will feel like you've been hit by a train, they weren't kidding, for the next three days it took me between 4-7hours to get out of bed, I have never known pain like it and I have broken a few things in my time, but this was like I had broken my back and pelvis, for the next 3 weeks I sat up to sleep in bed it was just easier to get up, m boss was a compete arS*h*le and throughout my recover made things as awkward for me as possible, after 3 months despite the fact that that I had returned to work after 3 weeks she made me redundant. So I still have my mare, and I have ridden her through June-October last year not religiously and did hack her 6 times, which is amazing but then some shetlands looked at her on the last hack and I got off and walked home. Then she got an abscess and was off work and then winter came (she hates winter).

So my predicament is that despite the fact that I love this little madam and she has her good points, she's great in the stable, loves a groom etc... she is the worst horse to lead in from the field, I have tried every gadget and she has no respect, she launches through the air spins round, canters next to you virtually on the spot rears up, she used to put the fear of God into me, she doesn't even respect a chifney I am surprised I have broken her jaw with her carry-on, she has no respect for me at all, now I am not a wus and I give as good as she's gets, I am ashamed to say that I have punched her ignorant face when she has really pushed it with me, not that there was much reaction, in fact little at all, I have tried being overly nice and praising her every good move. Nothing works, she just looks at me like 'Sucker' do my bidding. I have desensitised her with the lunge whip as she was terrified of it, I have never hit her, I just wiggle it on the floor, now she is desensitised she now has decided that she will stop whenever she likes and just look around, and now I am between the rock and the hard place, I have another horse, he is semi retired, currently lame and is a God, he literally has never put a foot wrong, he is twice her size and cut late, I would never put a chifney on him he would never need it, he has always looked after me, I wish I had bought another him. But I am stuck with madam who is beautiful and moves wonderfully, but is trying to kill me in her own way, I would love it if I could speak to her and just set out the contract that I just want to school 3 times and week and hack a couple of times too and go to dressage shows ever 2-3weeks, and for this she will have a clean bed, plenty of nice hay, good food, rugs in abundance, her every medical need met, but I can't and I can't keep doing what I am doing, I had hoped that I could progress with the professional's help but all it has proved is that a professional can ride her, and I can't.

So if anyone has an ideas on maybe hypnotising us both etc.... I would take advise, and NO I can't sell her she will end up in a tin.
 
Christ this is tough but I didn't want to read and run. You can tell through your writing that despite it all you love this mare so if you won't sell, and if you have the money/land could you not just keep her as a field ornament?!?

Other than that I have no real idea's but I really wish you the best and hope others have an idea which works out for you.
 
Have you had this horse looked at by a vet?

I'm not one for shouting 'get the vet' at every opportunity but this horse is telling you something is wrong. From experience, and if you've really been through all you say you have, then I'd say she's trying to tell you that something hurts.
 
meardsall_millie said:
Have you had this horse looked at by a vet?

I'm not one for shouting 'get the vet' at every opportunity but this horse is telling you something is wrong. From experience, and if you've really been through all you say you have, then I'd say she's trying to tell you that something hurts.
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My thoughts exactly, if you have not had her thoroughly checked that would be the place to start as horses do not generally behave so consistently badly unless there is a good, in their view, reason.

I do not think the pro is really helping, he may be able to ride her through the bucking and rearing and think nothing of it but he is either compounding the issue by doing so or not finding ways to avoid her behaving this way, in my opinion after so long with little improvement, I would be wanting to see her relaxed and comfortable not still fighting him on a regular basis, that he cannot see a problem speaks volumes to me, her behaviour is not normal and most people would see why you have a problem.
 
If she's gone that long behaving so badly i'd get a serious vet check and xrays, as it could be kissing spine or si pain. That behavour does not sound normal. If she was mine I'd get her completely checked, and if nothing came up I'd give her a nice retirement if I could afford it, or pts if i couldn't

I have an exracer who was a chronic rearer and have loads of vets look at him and declare him completely sound. it was only scans and xrays revealed the problem.
 
My first thoughts were kissing spines. My second is - she is a mare, get her ovaries checked. A lot of mares get really really sore when in season and the build up to, come down from which doesn't leave you much time in between.
 
And you have put up with this for nearly 4 yrs? You are a braver person than I am!

If it was me, and any physical reason had been discounted, I would either retire her or pts. It doesn't matter that the professional can cope with her as she is YOUR horse, and she is putting YOU in danger.

Sorry to be so negative but horses are meant to be fun…..
 
Have to agree with a comprehensive vet checkup. But I would set your self on a limit on how much you want spend and stick to it.

If the results are not good, then retire or PTS.
 
Yes she has been looked at by both vet and physio and while she did have an issue with a sticking patella, that is fine now, more than fine, and she had a sore muscle on her nearside rump which the physio fixed. Trainer just says she needs work and lots of it, but he also gets cross when I won't do what he asks in a lesson, like canter, or my favourite where he starts asking me to trot within lengthened strides, I wasn't born yesterday I know she may canter when asked for lengthening, so I won't do that either! But last lesson I had was in October so I am really loathed to start that 'just trust me' ***** again. I guess I shall just have to have 2 pet horses and nothing to ride.
 
To be honest you sound like a nightmare and this mare sounds very unhappy. Why are you wiggling a lunge whip at her? You are asking for advice from a trainer but then not taking it ... I would have walked away from you by now, he must have the patients of a saint!

If there is nothing physically wrong with her and you are frightened to ride her and you wont put trust in your trainer to work through the issues I think either sell it to someone who can work with her (and tell her off when she needs it because she is walking all over you) and put the effort into working her daily and giving her a job, put her in a tin can yourself so you know her future or keep her as a field ornament.

3 years and nine months and no one has said any of the above to you? :( Life is too short to be feeling like you are with this mare. Maybe its time to say enough is enough. Good luck.
 
What exactly has the vet done? Has the horse been into the vets for a full work up, or has he merely come along at home, watched her trot up , poke and prod a bit and say there is nothing wrong?

There is a massive difference between the two
 
Yes - full work-up at a decent veterinary hospital (think either Rossdales or AHT) and then take stock.

Horses don't behave like this for no reason.

Equally, if you don't put your trust in your trainer, why have them??

*IF* vet check-up is ok, your options are to PTS or ask the trainer to take the horse on full time and sell on. You may love the mare, but the horse doesn't sound happy and neither do you!
 
as wench says... a vet can't diagnose kissing spine from just looking. You need to work out how much time and effort you are willing to put into fixing this mare. I spent months doing groundwork, lunging and physio work with one of my lads. I can't believe you kept riding her for that long??! Would you get into your car everyday and drive it if you knew you were going to crash???
 
If you make the assumption ( and I would not ) that's there's no physical reason for her behaviour then the ' problem ' appears very simple the mare is simply to much horse for you and you need to sell her to a rider she suits.
However I would never discount the fact that powerful pro riders can make horses in pain do things that others riders canot , so I would not be selling her without a proper "problems with performance work up " from an experianced equine vet.
I think you can't hang around to place her in a new home at her age she's needs to settled in a home where the work level suits her .
 
Full vet work up- check for KS and Sacroiliac issues.

Find a trainer who will take this mare back to basics on the ground. The fact that she's terrible to lead after four years together rings alarm bells, the mare does not respect you. An excellent groundwork trainer is the way forward here, although it will be a long road to completely remove the habit. If she can't handle being respectful on the ground, there is no hope under saddle.
 
snopuma said:
I am ashamed to say that I have punched her ignorant face
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Its really not acceptable to punch a horse in the face no matter how frustrated and angry you are! If its got that bad then you need to rehome or PTS if the behaviour is really that bad. Horses dont care about "contracts" or clean beds!
 
I had a TBx mare who was very similar to yours. She was a nightmare to handle in winter, much better in summer. Eventually, after deciding that it was safer for every-one if she wasn't ridden, we found that it was her feed that was causing the problems. She was super-sensitive to cereals and refined sugar. When we removed those from her diet, she was like a different animal. What is your mare fed on?
 
I think you should do yourself and her a favour and move her on to a more suitable home. Personally I would send her to your trainer to sell.
To me it sounds like a case of neither of you trusting or respecting each other. You are struggling and these TB's are super sensistive.
It sounds to me like with the right person she may come good and you need something less sensitive and more laid back.
It seems silly to carry on when both of you are so miserable and scared around each other :).
 
Nearly 4 years is a long time to keep a horse that you don't enjoy owning. Owning horses has to be enjoyable, and even if you didn't ride her, looking after her, leading her in still has issues. So, on this basis, you need to send her off to be sold or find her a permanent loving loan home with a contract that suits you.
On the other hand, if injury is picked up by vets, and you don't/can't continue, do the descent thing, so no-one suffers any more.
 
Fools Motto said:
Nearly 4 years is a long time to keep a horse that you don't enjoy owning. Owning horses has to be enjoyable, and even if you didn't ride her, looking after her, leading her in still has issues. So, on this basis, you need to send her off to be sold or find her a permanent loving loan home with a contract that suits you.
On the other hand, if injury is picked up by vets, and you don't/can't continue, do the descent thing, so no-one suffers any more.
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This really. You want a quiet hack and to do a couple of dressage shows - and you have bought a racehorse? Bit of a square peg in a round hole.
 
Orangehorse said:
This really. You want a quiet hack and to do a couple of dressage shows - and you have bought a racehorse? Bit of a square peg in a round hole.
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not always the OP tried the horse as what she was looking for and the 'peg fitted the hole' at that point it just seems someone had fiddles with the width of the peg by using sedation
 
Has the vet fully scanned for issues such as KS? As amazing as our vets can be, they can not work with nothing and will not diagnose a horse based on what they see from the outside, even if they think it may be something else. Personally I wouldn't want to pass on a horse like this, I'd feel too guilty and worried that the horse may end up injuring someone that is simply in the wrong place at the wrong time or just naive. I would have to vote PTS if you can't keep and sort it out.
 
Dependant on how much you would have to spend with a vet, I think your best off taking her directly to a hospital. Don't bother with getting a local vet out to look at home as there is very little they can do.

I expect hospital vet to start from the hooves upwards with nerve blocks, see if this makes any difference. I'd also be asking for a gastroscope and an ovary scan whilst she's in.

If the X-ray machine comes out for anything I'd be asking for X-rays of the spine, just in case she has KS. Sometimes this can show a "false positive", in the the horse has an impingement, but could be caused by holding the boys to relive pain elsewhere, or that the impingement doesn't actually bother her.

IMO it's best getting as much diagnostics done in the vet in one go as possible, as in the long run it will save you several trips back and forth.

Other things you may consider before he goes to the vets are thermal imaging scan (can help pinpoint problematic areas), animal communicator, or bioenergetic hair test.
 
Orangehorse said:
This really. You want a quiet hack and to do a couple of dressage shows - and you have bought a racehorse? Bit of a square peg in a round hole.
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Mine would be happiest sleeping and eating and toddling down the lane once in a while. And that's even when he's fit and hopped up on oats. Some really are lazy sods!

I guess you just need to work out a plan of action here.

First and foremost, don't take any risks.

You know what, how about a bute trial? Ask your vet about maximum dosage. Any difference at all in her behaviour and you have your answer.

If you do see an improvement, I would honestly just take her for a full work-up somewhere. Chances are something will crop up, because very few horses are 100%, but it might just explain her behaviour. Others have given more detailed info on this, and in my experience it is well worth doing, even for a horse that appears sound.

If all comes back clear, I would send her for schooling. Going to another yard means that they should work on her ground manners, whereas having someone come to you means that only her ridden issues are addressed. You say he sits the bucks, but hasn't improved the behaviour. Could it be because he doesn't see it as a problem? (asking you to canter her when you don't feel comfortable etc) Have you had the second opinion of any other trainers? Is it really broncing or just normal bucking? Because with broncing you will be really limited as to who will be willing to ride her. But yes, after the vet step, you need to find a professional who can help you.

I totally agree, I personally wouldn't rehome her.
 
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Yes we did Bute Trial for 2 weeks and no she was no different, sometimes she can be wonderful and level headed, out hacking when a coach came along she was stolid while another horse was having a paddy, and its these little glimpses of her other nature that keep me going with her, she is barefoot and sound and moves beautifully, she has no difficulty remaining in balance and on the bit in walk and trot and that's why she comes home with scores of 72% to 76% - just getting her into canter she throws her head up, launches and you can't take even the slightest rein or she freaks out and before you say it yes she has had her teeth done and saddle has been changed etc... I am a bit disheartened that the only advise I am really getting on here is that there is something wrong with her or I am a nightmare, I was hoping somebody had similar experiences and could offer training advice but all I have to go on is what has already been covered.
 
my lad is exactly the same, i knew underneath he was a lovely, kind horse but it was buried under all these issues.

I don't know what training advice you are expecting to get? It sounds like an issue that has been going on for a long time, and that the professional you got in to ride couldn't fix or give advice to. Without seeing either you or the horse in action it's impossible for anyone to give other advice.

I'd bet 100% its a spine or physical issue. There are other things that could cause some of the issues (throwing head in canter, not accepting contact) but overall it just screams of a horse in some kind of physical pain. Although the leading issue would indicate you need to improve handling issues on the ground. The not wanting to canter could be SI pain, which you haven't ruled out. It could be lack of balance, or a wonky rider, it could be arthritic hocks, it could be a bad surface in the school causing a horse to lose balance. there could be 1000 things it could be, but without seeing a video or something it's impossible to tell. My exracer just to throw his head when he felt a contact, but schooling got that out of him. i have to make sure my contact is completely even and supportive, but very gentle or else he throws the head up. I found using karl hesters elastic reins a great help - it helped me keep an even pressure until I improved my contact.

But honestly it doesn't sound like a training issue. If you wanted to rule that out then send her away to schooling for a few months to a decent rider. With the best will in the world, if you have struggled on for so long then you don't have the skills, resources or people around you to help.
If she was mine
• i'd get full work up from vet hospital,
• I'd cut out any sugar from the diet and turn her out 24/7.
• work with a decent NH person to get my groundwork better. I did this with my exracer and once we got our groundwork right and he respected me, a lot of the ridden issues disappeared.
• Then i'd send her off schooling with someone good. Maybe she wasn't retrained properly and she's confused and getting frustrated, I know my lad was until he knew his new job. I'd been riding 30 years and i didn't have the finesse to retrain him, I sent him off to someone i trusted and he came back a much happier horse who really understood his new job.
 
Does she actualy take a contact at trot and is she really working to the bit and working properly over her back at walk and trot? getting over 70% at dressage does not always mean they are pushing through properly especially at lower levels which I assume from your post and problems you are doing. Can you get her to take what feels like a bag of sugar in each hand from the contact? Generally I would be thinking spine or hock areas could be a problem so you could be looking at suspensory or KS SI type problems but she does need a proper workup to find out if and where there is a problem. if the vets find nothing then she is a paddock ornament from the sounds of it as she is very unhappy for some reason. out of curiosity does she buck if you do a fast trot where she is long and on the forehand and let her fall into canter? or if you lunge her with sidereins and a roller what does she do in the transition?
 
If you are sure that there is nothing physically wrong, then she may just need strengthening in the canter and is the sort of horse that likes to understand and feel strong doing something before she will do it willingly.
You can try doing some canter work in the lunge with saddle and headcollar, and side reins from the d rings to the headcollar. Then you can push her on in the canter a little with something to lean on without teaching her to lean on the bit/annoying her with it when she is trying to balance. Only do a small amount at a time though, and not every day.
Probably try another trainer too I would say - this one is clearly not your cup of tea. One with good groundwork knowledge (handling and schooling-wise) would probably be a good fit.

100% agree with checking her SI area though.
Best of luck with her.
 
Orangehorse said:
This really. You want a quiet hack and to do a couple of dressage shows - and you have bought a racehorse? Bit of a square peg in a round hole.
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Ex racers can be incredibly good for this sort of thing. Not only can they often move very well for dressage, I've always found them to be great hacks because they've been so desensitised by all the things they've encountered when racing or on the way to the gallops. So usually fab with traffic etc. A well schooled and re trained ex racer (as this one was sold as) is often a very good option for someone who wants a quality horse but not a total plod.
 
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