Ex-raccehorse woes, seriously what am I going to do?

The reluctance to canter was the first sign of SI in my horse i think. The transition to canter seemed to 'catch' him and hurt him when he had to put weight on his rear end to push off into canter.
 
How does she canter on the lunge? Do you see her cantering in her field? Do you/have you cantered her on hacks? Watching her in these situations should give you a clue to a physical problem. If she's completely hollowing, looking grumpy and throwing her head up on the lunge, then it's probably not just a training issue.

If there genuinely is nothing physical then you have two options. Either you find a way to canter, conquering your understandable nerves and learning to ride her through it, or you sell. If you want to keep her, you do need to have a good look at yourself and your attitude to see if you think you can do this. Asking for lengthened strides in trot shouldn't lead to canter. It's a very good and important exercise to do and not something you should be jumping on your trainer for. Find a different trainer, you clearly don't trust him but find one you do trust and listen to them. There's no point if you're just going to ignore all their advice. Sorry if a few of us are coming across as harsh, but problems aren't solved unless you face them head on.
 
A proper examination from a vet if you want to spend the money. If you don't then PTS if she is that bad. She sounds to me (If nothing physically wrong) that she has infact never been reschooled. Alot of the behaviours are similar to my ex racer when I first got her off the track. These type of horses need someone brave. No matter what the outcome I think you need to admit defeat and that she isn't the right horse for you. No point in paying for them if you are getting no enjoyment out of it at all
 
Bute trials do have their place but they aren't always accurate. I've just had one of mine on 3 sachets a day (vets advice) after a huge deterioration in behaviour. This was a horse who would trot up sound on the straight, after flexions and also on a circle on hard ground. Vet actually told me to work him harder or hunt him as he was probably bored. Bute made no difference so he was booked in elsewhere for a proper work up with a vet who would humour me. KS and hock problems found.
Horses are supposed to make us smile. The way I looked at it was I needed a thorough investigation done because neither me or him were happy. I needed to make sure he was sound enough to sell on or get to the bottom of the problem so I could make him happy enough to do the job he was bought for.
I know lameness work ups are NEVER cheap but neither is livery, lessons, paying for someone to ride a horse you just aren't enjoying
 
The more you post the more it sounds like a physical issue .
It is not worth getting hurt over .
I would get extensive video footage of her seeking tying to get footage of the difficult behaviours then I really feel she needs to left at a equine vets for a full work up .
A proper work up is expensive ( depending on how far they have to go to find something ) but getting badly hurt is much much more expensive than paying for a work up ).
It's my experience that a bute trial can prove the horse has pain but they are not at all reliable at discounting pain as many types of pain don't respond to it , I have personal experience with my own horses of this for back pain and foot pain and a friends horse with ligament issues in the hocks did not respond to pain relief either.
You are getting the advice you are getting because of the story you have told most badly behaved horses have pain issues that my experience born of fifty years at this .
If the horse goes ok for the pro then you have to learn to ride like a pro or move on .
Does she canter safely and normally for the pro ?
If you have come on here looking for a magic answer I will tell you straight there's not one .
I have owned several very difficult horses the difference is I did not not call it a nightmare I spend my time laughing my head off at their antics and sorting the training problems .
When reading your story everything shouts that something is wrong with the horse .
 
I hope you don't take offence to this, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. Just wondering if you might be subconsciously holding onto some resentment about your accident and subsequent redundancy - do you think deep down you might be blaming your mare for this? Or, alternatively, blaming her for not being like your other horse? She does sound like a sensitive soul, and so may be picking up on your unintentional bad vibes. It sounds like you went through a rough time of it there, would you consider some form of sports psychology to help with resolving that and perhaps your mind-block over the canter too? Again, apologies if that offends you, but if you think everything is ok physically with your mare, I think you should be looking at yourself too.
 
As others have said I would get a proper work up done and look at all possibilities from Kissing spines, SI, spavins, to ulcers and hormonal issues. Look at her diet too. If nothing shows up then offer her to your trainer to sell as he is not bothered by her behaviour.
You may just need to accept that she is not suitable for you and let both of you move on.
 
snopuma said:
Yes we did Bute Trial for 2 weeks and no she was no different, sometimes she can be wonderful and level headed, out hacking when a coach came along she was stolid while another horse was having a paddy, and its these little glimpses of her other nature that keep me going with her, she is barefoot and sound and moves beautifully, she has no difficulty remaining in balance and on the bit in walk and trot and that's why she comes home with scores of 72% to 76% - just getting her into canter she throws her head up, launches and you can't take even the slightest rein or she freaks out and before you say it yes she has had her teeth done and saddle has been changed etc... I am a bit disheartened that the only advise I am really getting on here is that there is something wrong with her or I am a nightmare, I was hoping somebody had similar experiences and could offer training advice but all I have to go on is what has already been covered.
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So is she just bad in the canter??? Could it be a catch 22 that she finds it exciting so you don't do it and the less she is cantered the more she can't control herself if/when she is asked to canter?

I had a mare who was great to show jump and XC etc but for a dressage test I couldn't quite control the canter and the way my lessons were structured we trotted for 50 mins of the lesson and then cantered at the end. I could never control the canter (for dressage tests) and of course the lessons finished so it was never worked on... This went on for ages (YEARS) until I stopped the lessons, took myself off to an arena asked for canter at the beginning, cantered for almost the entire hour (on and off) and by the very next day I had a canter I could ride and we literally went from being last in dressage test to winning them!!.........
 
Been there, got the t shirt, had 2 great (ish) years and then it sort of got progressively worse, turned out to be kissing spines......had horse PTS. If you are going to get injured there really is no enjoyment in doing that.

Get her fully checked out by a vet, if nothing is found of any explanation then sell to an experienced person, or PTS, sounds awful but horses are supposed to be fun.

My days of getting my old boy in and missing front and back hooves as we came in from the field are gone and I dont miss them one bit!!

For what it is worth, walk and trot ALWAYS fine, the canter was always the issue and when the bucking and broncing began, never in any other gait. came with it but it got worse and worse, some days could work through it, some days not. Fine being lunged to a point until we got to canter...

Good luck x
 
snopuma said:
I am a bit disheartened that the only advise I am really getting on here is that there is something wrong with her or I am a nightmare, I was hoping somebody had similar experiences and could offer training advice but all I have to go on is what has already been covered.
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So what are you feeding her? As I asked before.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
So what are you feeding her? As I asked before.
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She was getting, plain hay chaff, fast fibre, speedibeet, micronized linseed, turmeric, valerian cordial but I am changing them gradually onto PURE EASY they are both barefoot, he has navicular and her feet were so awful when I got her she couldn't hold a shoe, on the plus side she dished a little before with shoes and now is straight moving without them and her feet look a lot better as does her body score for a TB she's not fat but looks great. She just has meadow hay to eat in her stable, not soaked but is very nice quality, she's up to date with saddle fit, teeth just done, and vaccs. I did lunge her today and she contained the inner loony, and when I finished I let her go and she turned herself inside out, so I was quite pleased that she listened to me when clearly she had a lot of pent up energy, she is still the most beautiful girl and when she's showing off with a little passage in the school you would thinks she was a warmbood, I do love this horse very much
 
I haven't read all the replies. But I think one major component in this is to be consistent with her, for example you have just lunged her but then 'let her go' it's not a criticism just an observation but perhaps when she is well behaved just stop at that and don't allow for her over exuberant behaviour at all. Being black and white is the quickest way to get through to them.
 
blackhor2e said:
I haven't read all the replies. But I think one major component in this is to be consistent with her, for example you have just lunged her but then 'let her go' it's not a criticism just an observation but perhaps when she is well behaved just stop at that and don't allow for her over exuberant behaviour at all. Being black and white is the quickest way to get through to them.
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I do get the 'black and white thing, but she has no turnout at the moment so kicking her heels up at the end of the session is the only freedom she has as the moment.
 
If I fed my ex-racer that and had no turnout I would have similar issues. Mine is in hay only and gets turnout. If she can't go out, then she gets to have 'fun' in the school before any ridden work. She also needs regular and consistent work. She needs routine, very consistent handling and quiet, calm approach. i have been taught to set her up for success all the time. If I hit her, ever, it would be game over, she would no longer trust me (not that I would dream of hitting her anyway).
For what it is worth, if physical checks show nothing then I would get a trainer who has a good track record with ex-racers and can help you learn how to get the best out of them. My trainer is invaluable and helps me to turn the 'she's too good for me' moments into successes.
 
snopuma said:
I do get the 'black and white thing, but she has no turnout at the moment so kicking her heels up at the end of the session is the only freedom she has as the moment.
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It's very unwise to keep such a horse without turnout , is there any way you can resolve that .
 
Does she behave the same way when kept and ridden off grass.

A confined horse of any breed is going to be anything between fresh and a ruddy lunatic.

I wonder if Greatwood might be worth contacting and discussing your problems with.
 
I know you don't want to hear it but she needs a full lameness work up! Maybe try veterinary thermal imaging first to give you an idea its only about £150 for the whole body and if there are no hot spots then pain might not be your issue but if there is you can get further investigations. This mare really needs a full loss of performance work up. Unfortunately it's not what you want to hear but believe me most of us are speaking from experience as much as we all wish we weren't!
 
Okay this horse of mine loves the spring and summer, she goes out every day all day happy to be out, during the autumn she starts fretting about being out (she goes out with my other horse - he is happy to go out any day of the year) now when I say fretting I mean turning the area around their gate into a 20m circle of deep mud slurry, she comes in covered in mud and I mean dripping in thick mud, and what isn't covered in mud is covered in shaving foam sweat under her rug, so as she does this her turnout becomes less as does his (poor boy) at the end of January they were down to 1 hour out as this was too much for her and since then they've been in, her antics have caused him to be lame again with a flair up of the navicular and he is on boxrest, I would love to be able to turn her out like a normal horse but she won't have it, she will hurt herself if I try to leave them out longer and now she has hurt him by default, you will have never seen a horse so in love with her stable, I promise you that, I don't think there is any need for her to have a door on it, it is incredibly upsetting to watch her behave like an agoraphobic but as with previous years when the weather changes as it is now she will start to go out again. I understand that everyone keep saying get her worked up at the vets, but they have seen her countless times and she is sound she doesn't have KS and when 4 professionals have told me that and explained why she would not be a candidate for that and that it would be a pointless to investigate, when she has a moment in the school, she having fun, not the kind of fun anyone wants, but her kind of fun.
 
There is a FB group called "Racehorses, where are they now?" It's a big active group and somebody will almost certainly know her from racing days and could give you some background info, if she's always been like this or retired due to injury etc. Good luck :)
 
I understand that everyone keep saying get her worked up at the vets, but they have seen her countless times and she is sound she doesn't have KS and when 4 professionals have told me that and explained why she would not be a candidate for that and that it would be a pointless to investigate
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So she's never had her back x-rayed or been in to have a full lameness work up?

I think that you have been let down by those professionals.
 
The horse is too sharp for you, nothing to be ashamed of - I wouldn't want her, sounds like a right PIA. Sell/gift her to someone who can make something of her, keep as a pet or PTS. Just don't expect to make her into something that she isn't and will never be, IE a quiet easy going happy hacker.
 
Ah, if she has no turnout it's no wonder she behaves this way. If you can't improve that situation I'm not really sure what to suggest tbh. How often is she worked?
 
Antw23uk said:
To be honest you sound like a nightmare and this mare sounds very unhappy. Why are you wiggling a lunge whip at her? You are asking for advice from a trainer but then not taking it ... I would have walked away from you by now, he must have the patients of a saint!

If there is nothing physically wrong with her and you are frightened to ride her and you wont put trust in your trainer to work through the issues I think either sell it to someone who can work with her (and tell her off when she needs it because she is walking all over you) and put the effort into working her daily and giving her a job, put her in a tin can yourself so you know her future or keep her as a field ornament.

3 years and nine months and no one has said any of the above to you? :( Life is too short to be feeling like you are with this mare. Maybe its time to say enough is enough. Good luck.
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This really is just so unhelpful. At the end of the day most of us post on here because we genuinely want advice to do the best by our horses. Telling someone they sound like a nightmare is just not constructive or useful in any way, and frankly, it's rude and unnecessary.
 
OP, I really think it would be a good idea to get a lameness work up. Or if she's sound, a bone scan. For 700 quid or so you will at least know if she lights up like a christmas tree there's something there. Also worth thinking about ulcers, particularly if she's a pain to be turned out in autumn winter. May well be the acid in her stomach is building up if there's not enough grass for her to nibble on.
 
I've known many of people who have proved the vet wrong. I would have her scoped for ulcers and her back xrayed for kissing spines. Good luck.
 
snopuma said:
Okay this horse of mine loves the spring and summer, she goes out every day all day happy to be out, during the autumn she starts fretting about being out (she goes out with my other horse - he is happy to go out any day of the year) now when I say fretting I mean turning the area around their gate into a 20m circle of deep mud slurry, she comes in covered in mud and I mean dripping in thick mud, and what isn't covered in mud is covered in shaving foam sweat under her rug, so as she does this her turnout becomes less as does his (poor boy) at the end of January they were down to 1 hour out as this was too much for her and since then they've been in, her antics have caused him to be lame again with a flair up of the navicular and he is on boxrest, I would love to be able to turn her out like a normal horse but she won't have it, she will hurt herself if I try to leave them out longer and now she has hurt him by default, you will have never seen a horse so in love with her stable, I promise you that, I don't think there is any need for her to have a door on it, it is incredibly upsetting to watch her behave like an agoraphobic but as with previous years when the weather changes as it is now she will start to go out again. I understand that everyone keep saying get her worked up at the vets, but they have seen her countless times and she is sound she doesn't have KS and when 4 professionals have told me that and explained why she would not be a candidate for that and that it would be a pointless to investigate, when she has a moment in the school, she having fun, not the kind of fun anyone wants, but her kind of fun.
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If she truly just having fun ,she needs a enough work to keep a stabled horse settled and riders who does not find her behaviour a nightmare .
If you keep a horse without turn out and don't provide it with enough work to keep it settled and happy then you reap what you have sowed .
 
Goldenstar said:
If she truly just having fun ,she needs a enough work to keep a stabled horse settled and riders who does not find her behaviour a nightmare .
If you keep a horse without turn out and don't provide it with enough work to keep it settled and happy then you reap what you have sowed .
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This is what I meant when I asked how much she is worked. A horse who is stabled that much needs working probably twice a day to keep them sane. If you can't manage two sessons a day, then one long solid session with a separate in hand walk/go on the walker/turnout. I know it's a lot but for an animal designed to be moving most of the time it's the minimum. Obviously when she's out in the summer twice a day wouldn't be necessary.

If you can't provide that level of work, then you either need to address her turnout issues, maybe by finding a yard with an all weather turnout she could go in for a few hours a day which she might prefer to the mud, or you could get someone in to ride her, or you need to admit defeat and find her a new home.

I appreciate that all of this is sounding rather critical, and apologies if you already work her twice a day, but with you having struggled on for so long and going through many injuries, I think it's crunch time for you and your mare. Any criticism is well meant, I promise. I think many of us have been faced with horses we can't truly manage, myself definitely included. It's difficult but I'm sure you will make the right decision for you both, whether it's pushing through or letting go.
 
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